Math01 - My first SG: OCC Space Race
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
[quote[Now I'm waiting for our heavy hitters ( Mathias and Renata!) to check in on this one...[/quote]
I'm not a heavy hitter; I'm just mouthy.
I know from experience that Republic will purchase a non-monopoly Monotheism or Engineering straight-up. Not sure about Feudalism.* (Trade might even be in our favor in that case, but when I've done it, the scientific civs in question have always been broke.) If the scientific civs get different techs, we'll have to pay (or at the very least, throw in Literature, if still available). To our distinct advantage here is that our scientific rivals have not met -- therefore Republic (and possibly Lit) will be equally valuable to both of them.
As to whether it's in our best interests to make this sort of trade or simply try to stay out in front with everybody else paying *us* for as long as possible ... I don't really know. In a normal Monarch game, maybe for GOTM, I wouldn't hesitate. With an OCC, my instincts say never to give up anything for free. But then, I wouldn't have expected to be so far ahead in tech, either, and that does change things; as someone sort of pointed out, it's hard to make a lot of cash when you're the sole tech leader by a long way, because the AIs will always be broke. It's easier when the tech leader is less clear cut.
In short, I have no idea.
By the way, we need a lot more units than two archers and two warriors by the time anyone but us hits the middle ages, or the barbs will eat us alive. Would be worth stationing a unit up on the peninsula to keep that area clear when it happens, I think, to narrow down the front a bit and keep the horses off the hills.
Renata
I'm not a heavy hitter; I'm just mouthy.
I know from experience that Republic will purchase a non-monopoly Monotheism or Engineering straight-up. Not sure about Feudalism.* (Trade might even be in our favor in that case, but when I've done it, the scientific civs in question have always been broke.) If the scientific civs get different techs, we'll have to pay (or at the very least, throw in Literature, if still available). To our distinct advantage here is that our scientific rivals have not met -- therefore Republic (and possibly Lit) will be equally valuable to both of them.
As to whether it's in our best interests to make this sort of trade or simply try to stay out in front with everybody else paying *us* for as long as possible ... I don't really know. In a normal Monarch game, maybe for GOTM, I wouldn't hesitate. With an OCC, my instincts say never to give up anything for free. But then, I wouldn't have expected to be so far ahead in tech, either, and that does change things; as someone sort of pointed out, it's hard to make a lot of cash when you're the sole tech leader by a long way, because the AIs will always be broke. It's easier when the tech leader is less clear cut.
In short, I have no idea.
By the way, we need a lot more units than two archers and two warriors by the time anyone but us hits the middle ages, or the barbs will eat us alive. Would be worth stationing a unit up on the peninsula to keep that area clear when it happens, I think, to narrow down the front a bit and keep the horses off the hills.
Renata
The tech error: I'll take the hit, as I didn't say not to study MM. Trading for map making was implied in my post. I assumed everbody knew the AI would grab map making, and that we would then trade for it.
The temple: Even with one citizen on coast, we cannot run 90% science without it. One on the coast puts us at 55 base commerce, so 90/10 would give us 49.5/5.5. Guess which one gets rounded up? What we can do is put two on the coast for 56, which will get us the 6th happy face, and we still pull 20 shields per turn.
Embassies, Trades, and Gifts: I've done the math. The numbers look good. Embassies with our neighbors: 169 gold. Those on the other continent: 245 gold. Total for embassies: 414 gold. Our treasury: 477 gold. Total AI treasury: 338 gold. What do they want in exchange for their gold? Mathematics, of course, except Sumeria - they still need writing. We will be left with 401 gold. And yes, gifting techs is a good thing. I've never gifted extensively this early, but in my last game I had a 6+ tech lead going into the industrial, and ended up self-researching all but 3 of the required modern techs. I launched in 1988, just one turn before 20K culture. Not losing when we win: Priceless. (I couldn't resist)
My plan, and I'll be very detailed and specific to avoid more confusion, is this:
First, buy embassies with all rivals. I don't think the order in which the are bought makes any difference. Be sure to take note on wonders in progress. I can count the shields and estimate completion time including growth. If you want, I can take preflight and do this myself, that would certainly remove the confusion factor.
After embassies, talk to Russia first, she has the most gold, with 136. Put her gold on the table and ask her what she wants (mathematics), then accept the deal. Repeat this with Inca and Japan, then with Mongols and Zulu. When you talk to Sumeria, he'll ask for writing. Accept that, then give him mathematics as well. Egypt has no gold, so we'll just be nice and give Cleo writing and mathematics too.
Now that we have all the gold, we'll make another round of communications and gift Code of Laws to everyone. This should get them all in a relatively good mood.
Last thing during preflight: wake the workers, we don't need any more mines.
I'll post this for now, while I continue to address other comments/suggestions.
The temple: Even with one citizen on coast, we cannot run 90% science without it. One on the coast puts us at 55 base commerce, so 90/10 would give us 49.5/5.5. Guess which one gets rounded up? What we can do is put two on the coast for 56, which will get us the 6th happy face, and we still pull 20 shields per turn.
Embassies, Trades, and Gifts: I've done the math. The numbers look good. Embassies with our neighbors: 169 gold. Those on the other continent: 245 gold. Total for embassies: 414 gold. Our treasury: 477 gold. Total AI treasury: 338 gold. What do they want in exchange for their gold? Mathematics, of course, except Sumeria - they still need writing. We will be left with 401 gold. And yes, gifting techs is a good thing. I've never gifted extensively this early, but in my last game I had a 6+ tech lead going into the industrial, and ended up self-researching all but 3 of the required modern techs. I launched in 1988, just one turn before 20K culture. Not losing when we win: Priceless. (I couldn't resist)
My plan, and I'll be very detailed and specific to avoid more confusion, is this:
First, buy embassies with all rivals. I don't think the order in which the are bought makes any difference. Be sure to take note on wonders in progress. I can count the shields and estimate completion time including growth. If you want, I can take preflight and do this myself, that would certainly remove the confusion factor.
After embassies, talk to Russia first, she has the most gold, with 136. Put her gold on the table and ask her what she wants (mathematics), then accept the deal. Repeat this with Inca and Japan, then with Mongols and Zulu. When you talk to Sumeria, he'll ask for writing. Accept that, then give him mathematics as well. Egypt has no gold, so we'll just be nice and give Cleo writing and mathematics too.
Now that we have all the gold, we'll make another round of communications and gift Code of Laws to everyone. This should get them all in a relatively good mood.
Last thing during preflight: wake the workers, we don't need any more mines.
I'll post this for now, while I continue to address other comments/suggestions.
One more thing preflight: We only have one more turn of GA production, so the Lighthouse will take 3 turns to complete. Move three citizens to the coast for maximum commerce until it is complete.
Science: Once we know currency, pull Russia and Sumeria into the middle ages, barter for their free techs, then give ALL ancient techs to ALL civs. We should head directly to Astronomy, prebuild a university so we finish it as soon as we have education, then begin our prebuild for Cop's.
Builds: After GLH, move one citizen back to the land for 20 spt and build a new temple.
The Great Wall: I'd like to build it as soon as possible, as gifting techs will make it available to the AI during cascades. On that thought, if we end up with Feud from the sci civs, sharing it with everyone will make a more expensive wonder available.
Harbor: We don't really need one until the AI have them, so low priority.
Marketplace: We are commercial, so it will cost only 50 shields. Our 23 shields per turn would be perfect if we only had a couple of warriors to disband. This isn't top priority, though, as we won't be collecting taxes for a while.
Units: How many do we need? Would it be worth two turns to build barracks so our new units will be vets? We can sell the barracks afterward.
The Engineering-Forest thing: Yes and no. We can plant three forests for zero growth, and irrigating the four unused grasslands will give us added flexibility. However, I am not willing to research engineering for this purpose. We will get Cop's sooner if we only research the prereqs. Hopefully one of the sci civs will pull it for us. This is a double bonus, as they are unlikely to research it themselves early on, but once they get it, they grab for invention and gunpowder, for which we will gladly trade our techs.
The Great Wall is for tourism. The culture it produces is worth it. I banned the GL because it alone gives 6 culture, while GLH+GW together give only 4 culture with double the tourism. Also, Shakes is not a must have. As I mentioned earlier, it basically serves as a replacement for Hospital+Cathedral+Coloseum+Temple. Since we will be towing the AI into the middle ages, Free Artistry may become available to us by the time we discover ToG. Then, if wonder cascades permit, we will build it.
I'm running late now, so I'll stop here. I'll check in again in about 4 hours. I can do preflight then, if we are in agreement. Khan, let me know that you will get the new save if I take preflight.
The Roster
Mathias is next in line
Mach
dl123654
Renata
ChuckDizzle
Khan_Asparuh is at the helm
Science: Once we know currency, pull Russia and Sumeria into the middle ages, barter for their free techs, then give ALL ancient techs to ALL civs. We should head directly to Astronomy, prebuild a university so we finish it as soon as we have education, then begin our prebuild for Cop's.
Builds: After GLH, move one citizen back to the land for 20 spt and build a new temple.
The Great Wall: I'd like to build it as soon as possible, as gifting techs will make it available to the AI during cascades. On that thought, if we end up with Feud from the sci civs, sharing it with everyone will make a more expensive wonder available.
Harbor: We don't really need one until the AI have them, so low priority.
Marketplace: We are commercial, so it will cost only 50 shields. Our 23 shields per turn would be perfect if we only had a couple of warriors to disband. This isn't top priority, though, as we won't be collecting taxes for a while.
Units: How many do we need? Would it be worth two turns to build barracks so our new units will be vets? We can sell the barracks afterward.
The Engineering-Forest thing: Yes and no. We can plant three forests for zero growth, and irrigating the four unused grasslands will give us added flexibility. However, I am not willing to research engineering for this purpose. We will get Cop's sooner if we only research the prereqs. Hopefully one of the sci civs will pull it for us. This is a double bonus, as they are unlikely to research it themselves early on, but once they get it, they grab for invention and gunpowder, for which we will gladly trade our techs.
Khan_Asparuh said:
The Great Wall is for tourism. The culture it produces is worth it. I banned the GL because it alone gives 6 culture, while GLH+GW together give only 4 culture with double the tourism. Also, Shakes is not a must have. As I mentioned earlier, it basically serves as a replacement for Hospital+Cathedral+Coloseum+Temple. Since we will be towing the AI into the middle ages, Free Artistry may become available to us by the time we discover ToG. Then, if wonder cascades permit, we will build it.
I'm running late now, so I'll stop here. I'll check in again in about 4 hours. I can do preflight then, if we are in agreement. Khan, let me know that you will get the new save if I take preflight.
The Roster
Mathias is next in line
Mach
dl123654
Renata
ChuckDizzle
Khan_Asparuh is at the helm
Ack! I know how I managed to confuse the temple thing now. I won't explain it, because it's pretty embarrassing. 
At any rate, it's good to know I didn't completely lose my ability to count. Many apologies, anyway.
I wasn't suggesting to research Engineering ourselves, just pointing out how it could be used to our advantage. Do you have any experience with trying to purchase Feudalism in a situation like this? I'm doubtful we'll be able to afford it without using up much of our gpt (unless both civs get it, of course). I guess we'll find out.
Regarding units -- we have about seven turns until we get currency, right? The first three will be spent building the Lighthouse. That leaves us four turns until we gift the AIs into the middle ages and have to face the uprising. Figure a couple of turns after that before the first barbs arrive. So that's maybe six or seven turns to build units (with possibly a barracks). We need enough firepower to take on maybe four or five units at once, so .... I guess Khan can decide. If it were me I'd probably skip the barracks and build about three more archers for attack and one or two spears for emergency backup.
I'm guessing Khan can probably handle the preturn.
Renata
At any rate, it's good to know I didn't completely lose my ability to count. Many apologies, anyway.I wasn't suggesting to research Engineering ourselves, just pointing out how it could be used to our advantage. Do you have any experience with trying to purchase Feudalism in a situation like this? I'm doubtful we'll be able to afford it without using up much of our gpt (unless both civs get it, of course). I guess we'll find out.
Regarding units -- we have about seven turns until we get currency, right? The first three will be spent building the Lighthouse. That leaves us four turns until we gift the AIs into the middle ages and have to face the uprising. Figure a couple of turns after that before the first barbs arrive. So that's maybe six or seven turns to build units (with possibly a barracks). We need enough firepower to take on maybe four or five units at once, so .... I guess Khan can decide. If it were me I'd probably skip the barracks and build about three more archers for attack and one or two spears for emergency backup.
I'm guessing Khan can probably handle the preturn.
Renata
I like what you say, Mathias. Sounds like a plan. Also with Renata I throw my support behind our resident Khan's ability to handle the preturn. Yes, I'm in a wierd mood today.
So the idea is to partially gift up all ai's for gold right now, and then finish the job for more gold once we've finished currency? Sounds great. I'd like to add when we find out what the free techs are, research what they don't have. Preferrably feudalism, since that's the one we're in most need of a discount on to trade for.
I'm also concerned about the barb uprising. Skip the barracks, just build units, I say. I agree with stopping the workers from mining in the preturn, and I say build a road or two that might help us against a barb uprising, mobility-wise, maybe heading nw past that mountain. Post a warrior on a hill on the ne peninsula (so no barb camps crop up there), and somebody else on the nw mountain (for visibility, and to deny the barbs that defense bonus).
Khan, if the time comes and you don't feel ready for the uprising, feel free to wait a few turns before gifting the ai's up. This may give you time to build that temple first. Research feud in the meantime. Just don't delay too long...
So the idea is to partially gift up all ai's for gold right now, and then finish the job for more gold once we've finished currency? Sounds great. I'd like to add when we find out what the free techs are, research what they don't have. Preferrably feudalism, since that's the one we're in most need of a discount on to trade for.
I'm also concerned about the barb uprising. Skip the barracks, just build units, I say. I agree with stopping the workers from mining in the preturn, and I say build a road or two that might help us against a barb uprising, mobility-wise, maybe heading nw past that mountain. Post a warrior on a hill on the ne peninsula (so no barb camps crop up there), and somebody else on the nw mountain (for visibility, and to deny the barbs that defense bonus).
Khan, if the time comes and you don't feel ready for the uprising, feel free to wait a few turns before gifting the ai's up. This may give you time to build that temple first. Research feud in the meantime. Just don't delay too long...
The idea is to build embassies, sell mathematics, and gift code of laws. After currency, we'll pull everyone into middle ages and yes, get whatever gold the AI might have at that time.
We can delay the temple for a while - two citizens on coast for 56 base commerce and 20 shields is a pretty good deal. We will need the temple before we start Cop's, so just make sure it is done before we need to start prebuild of university - that's still 20 turns out if we get monotheism from the sci civs.
Feudalism is not a prereq for Astronomy. The AI will research it, and we can trade for it later if we can't get for Rep+Lit. I think our Rep and Lit monopolies will trade for Feud monopoly. Feud is cost 32 with gov, wonder, and units. Rep is cost 28 with gov; Lit is cost 10 with wonder and improvement. I don't know the details, but this has to be close. To be clear: do not research Feudalism, and do not give any gold for it. Well, maybe up to 50 or so, if it is that close. Just click on Astronomy at F6 and auto-queue the prereqs.
We will have to post a warrior on the peninsula one tile north of the hill to have sight of the desert tip. Khan, it's up to you on barracks and number of units. After units, I think we should go ahead and build that market, as our gold won't last long. Two turns to build if you buy 10 shields on a galley or settler after one turn.
If we can get engineering, the plan is to plant forest on the three non-bonus grasses on the river. We'll need to build temple then, so we can work all land tiles. Again, to be clear, do not research Engineering.
The GW seems to have taken a back burner here. I still want to build it if we can, the tourism will be worth it. The comment about handing off the preflight was mainly concerning city investigation when we establish embassies. I don't suppose it would be a problem if I did the embassies as well, just to see the cities for myself? That would be a lot better than verbal description or even screenshots. Finally, per Mach's comment on stating the obious, we need to research Monotheism. If we trade for that, then we'll research Theology.
We can delay the temple for a while - two citizens on coast for 56 base commerce and 20 shields is a pretty good deal. We will need the temple before we start Cop's, so just make sure it is done before we need to start prebuild of university - that's still 20 turns out if we get monotheism from the sci civs.
Feudalism is not a prereq for Astronomy. The AI will research it, and we can trade for it later if we can't get for Rep+Lit. I think our Rep and Lit monopolies will trade for Feud monopoly. Feud is cost 32 with gov, wonder, and units. Rep is cost 28 with gov; Lit is cost 10 with wonder and improvement. I don't know the details, but this has to be close. To be clear: do not research Feudalism, and do not give any gold for it. Well, maybe up to 50 or so, if it is that close. Just click on Astronomy at F6 and auto-queue the prereqs.
We will have to post a warrior on the peninsula one tile north of the hill to have sight of the desert tip. Khan, it's up to you on barracks and number of units. After units, I think we should go ahead and build that market, as our gold won't last long. Two turns to build if you buy 10 shields on a galley or settler after one turn.
If we can get engineering, the plan is to plant forest on the three non-bonus grasses on the river. We'll need to build temple then, so we can work all land tiles. Again, to be clear, do not research Engineering.
The GW seems to have taken a back burner here. I still want to build it if we can, the tourism will be worth it. The comment about handing off the preflight was mainly concerning city investigation when we establish embassies. I don't suppose it would be a problem if I did the embassies as well, just to see the cities for myself? That would be a lot better than verbal description or even screenshots. Finally, per Mach's comment on stating the obious, we need to research Monotheism. If we trade for that, then we'll research Theology.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
OK boys and gals (Mes respects Renata 
) I see the game plan. Playing now.
Just a note: I guess that the values of the techs given up there are correct, except the AI-to-Human trade penalty (is it 10% at monarch? I think so). Just so you know it, in a recent Emperor game with 16civs (this plays a role too) I was unable to buy it with the two monopolys, engineering @6th and Monotheism @ 4th.
) I see the game plan. Playing now.Just a note: I guess that the values of the techs given up there are correct, except the AI-to-Human trade penalty (is it 10% at monarch? I think so). Just so you know it, in a recent Emperor game with 16civs (this plays a role too) I was unable to buy it with the two monopolys, engineering @6th and Monotheism @ 4th.
Yeah, feudalism is nasty to get. We'll probably have to research it ourselves eventually, or trade something ridiculous for it, like an Education monopoly.
(Oh, and .. thankyouthankyou. *curtsies, trips on skirt, falls over*)
Renata
(Oh, and .. thankyouthankyou.
*curtsies, trips on skirt, falls over*)Renata
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
Math01 1000BC
(1)
MM a bit for money (to shave some % on Currency later)
Embassies:
Inca (52g)
Japan (46g)
Russia (71g)
Zulu (56g)
Sumeria (89g)
Mongols (56g)
Egypt (45g)
The world is in peace and few civs know each other.
And after some tech trades for their money they are all broke and love us. I took RoPs too.
(IBT) Russians building ToA
(2)
Offered the world that loves us that much a bar-b-q
(IBT) The GA is over
(3)
Currency remains in 4 at -11g and 80%. TGL due next turn.
I disband the curraghs, nothing worth 4gpt can be explored now.
(4)
TGL is in. Ill build some archers.
(5)
Zulus build the Oracle.
(6)
After 2 archers I opt for a harbour. Trade purposes.
(7)
Were medieval. Organise a jet set party to selebrate this. Can you believe this, Cleo falls for Gil. There will be wars I say
Researching Mono in 13. Will trade when I get the harbour.
(8)
Harbor Market.
Found a barb in the East, still holding because of the Uprising.
The Zulus have Monarchy.
Nobody has connected harbour.
(9)
Yup, theres a camp in the East. Will take care of it and then trade.
Sumeria got Monarchy too. I buy it from the Zulus with MM and CoL, to trade it to Russia later. I gift some money for friendship in the deal.
(10)
Another camp, Russia will get it before us.
(11)
Party
(12)
Party recovering
(13)
Market Temple. Russia gives 147g for CoL.
(14)
The last camp near us will be gone next turn.
(15)
Camp gone.
I must have missed a turn. I got the game on the 80th, now its the 94. Will go for one more.
Trades: Currency for 36g to Russia, then offer Construction -> she pulls Feudalism.
The same for Sumeria feudalism too. Republic gets it for us (Russia refused to give it for Monarchy and Litterature). Amusing the Jet Set to get their money.
(Last turn)
Damn, I was close. There was a third camp near us. 8 horses and a warrior show up.
London temple archer. Or go for GW if you decide.
Havent gifted Republic, only Russia have it. No barracks in London neither.
Sorry to leave you with the barb hordes to deal with, Mathias.
We have not Engineering, watch out with the river.
(1)
MM a bit for money (to shave some % on Currency later)
Embassies:
Inca (52g)
Japan (46g)
Russia (71g)
Zulu (56g)
Sumeria (89g)
Mongols (56g)
Egypt (45g)
The world is in peace and few civs know each other.
And after some tech trades for their money they are all broke and love us. I took RoPs too.
(IBT) Russians building ToA
(2)
Offered the world that loves us that much a bar-b-q
(IBT) The GA is over
(3)
Currency remains in 4 at -11g and 80%. TGL due next turn.
I disband the curraghs, nothing worth 4gpt can be explored now.
(4)
TGL is in. Ill build some archers.
(5)
Zulus build the Oracle.
(6)
After 2 archers I opt for a harbour. Trade purposes.
(7)
Were medieval. Organise a jet set party to selebrate this. Can you believe this, Cleo falls for Gil. There will be wars I say
Researching Mono in 13. Will trade when I get the harbour.
(8)
Harbor Market.
Found a barb in the East, still holding because of the Uprising.
The Zulus have Monarchy.
Nobody has connected harbour.
(9)
Yup, theres a camp in the East. Will take care of it and then trade.
Sumeria got Monarchy too. I buy it from the Zulus with MM and CoL, to trade it to Russia later. I gift some money for friendship in the deal.
(10)
Another camp, Russia will get it before us.
(11)
Party
(12)
Party recovering
(13)
Market Temple. Russia gives 147g for CoL.
(14)
The last camp near us will be gone next turn.
(15)
Camp gone.
I must have missed a turn. I got the game on the 80th, now its the 94. Will go for one more.
Trades: Currency for 36g to Russia, then offer Construction -> she pulls Feudalism.
The same for Sumeria feudalism too. Republic gets it for us (Russia refused to give it for Monarchy and Litterature). Amusing the Jet Set to get their money.
(Last turn)
Damn, I was close. There was a third camp near us. 8 horses and a warrior show up.
London temple archer. Or go for GW if you decide.
Havent gifted Republic, only Russia have it. No barracks in London neither.
Sorry to leave you with the barb hordes to deal with, Mathias.
We have not Engineering, watch out with the river.
Ditto. And what's our financial state?
Kinda cool that both civs got Feudalism -- that was probably the only way we could have afforded to trade for it so cheaply.
We might still be able to get the Great Wall. It'll take us one more turn for the temple, then 14 for GW at 22spt (23 doesn't improve it). From the embassy screenshots, it appears that only Ur and Cuzco are likely threats based on shields accumulated and build rate. (Moscow, Karakorum and Thebes would all need to boost their shield output a fair amount over where they were fifteen turns ago; Kyoto has no chance. Non-capital towns are probably not developed enough yet to manage a wonder.) What are those two towns building now? Do the Inca have construction yet?
You seemed surprised to find that no-one had a harbor when you built ours. Did you know that you can tell which towns have harbors by just looking at them? They have a little anchor thigamajob next to the picture of the town. (Unless you ned a map to see that, which I don't think is the case, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) Since our continent has been fully circumnavigated, all coastal towns should be visible.
More later, possibly. It's strange to see so many smiling faces on the diplo screen. Usually everybody hates me.
PS: So Cleo and Gil are an item, eh?
Wars for sure.
Renata
Kinda cool that both civs got Feudalism -- that was probably the only way we could have afforded to trade for it so cheaply.
We might still be able to get the Great Wall. It'll take us one more turn for the temple, then 14 for GW at 22spt (23 doesn't improve it). From the embassy screenshots, it appears that only Ur and Cuzco are likely threats based on shields accumulated and build rate. (Moscow, Karakorum and Thebes would all need to boost their shield output a fair amount over where they were fifteen turns ago; Kyoto has no chance. Non-capital towns are probably not developed enough yet to manage a wonder.) What are those two towns building now? Do the Inca have construction yet?
You seemed surprised to find that no-one had a harbor when you built ours. Did you know that you can tell which towns have harbors by just looking at them? They have a little anchor thigamajob next to the picture of the town. (Unless you ned a map to see that, which I don't think is the case, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) Since our continent has been fully circumnavigated, all coastal towns should be visible.
More later, possibly. It's strange to see so many smiling faces on the diplo screen. Usually everybody hates me.
PS: So Cleo and Gil are an item, eh?
Wars for sure.Renata
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
I knew about the mark of the harbor, but forgot to watch about it.
Screenies:
Screenies:
Barbs! 
Actually, it doesn't look so bad. Mathias can hande this I'm sure. Move a warrior onto the mountain, deny them the defensive bonus, and maybe if we're lucky they'll attack that. Most of the horses should beeline at our exposed workers, so use that to pick them off. Have the two northern archers pair up and get behind the barbs, to go after the source.
Mathias, I guess you know what to do. Keep researching towards Astro, build enough mil to handle the barbs then the GW, trade for the ai's stuff as you can. You know the plan better than I do.
We have a full food bin and a harbor, so also I think we should spend a few shields storing that food in workers. We could road up a lot of territory for military reasons, saving the workers to merge in later. Or we could sell/gift slaves to lagging civs. Not very nice, but...
Actually, it doesn't look so bad. Mathias can hande this I'm sure. Move a warrior onto the mountain, deny them the defensive bonus, and maybe if we're lucky they'll attack that. Most of the horses should beeline at our exposed workers, so use that to pick them off. Have the two northern archers pair up and get behind the barbs, to go after the source.Mathias, I guess you know what to do. Keep researching towards Astro, build enough mil to handle the barbs then the GW, trade for the ai's stuff as you can. You know the plan better than I do.
We have a full food bin and a harbor, so also I think we should spend a few shields storing that food in workers. We could road up a lot of territory for military reasons, saving the workers to merge in later. Or we could sell/gift slaves to lagging civs. Not very nice, but...
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
The problem is that the warrior has allready moved. But we have 2 archers in London, that should do it.
I prefer storing population in settlers, especially with 20spt in London.
I prefer storing population in settlers, especially with 20spt in London.
First of all, why were you so concerned about Feudalism? We don't need it until after we have Astronomy, and by then all of the others would have figured it out, and we wouldn't have a problem getting it.
Overall, this turnset is nice. I like our position. The builds were not optimal, but not I'm not much concerned with that. I am a bit confused about the marketplace, though. We're commercial, it's commercial, it wasn't half-price? We are apparently having trouble getting messages to those workers, they continue to dig mines when three times they have been told to irrigate those unused grasslands. I will fix that. It also seems that our warriors never got their orders, either. One was supposed to guard the peninsula so we could keep our archers out of that area. The other should have been fortified in the mountain. I'll do what I can with the barbs, although they will probably disrupt our citizens, and may even pillage some of our improvements. Also, depending on where those horses go, one of our workers may be in danger.
We haven't towed everyone into the middle ages yet, I thought we were in agreement on this? We need everyone on par so that no one drops out of the running too soon. I would also like to share feudalism, so that the ToA cascade can carry into Sun Tzu's. Not only that, but 7 AI and 2 techs to choose from, surely someone will study engineering. Question: If I wait until we have monotheism, would they be more or less likely to go for engineering?
Khan, you didn't miss a turn, you counted the preflight as turn 1.
Did we do the Time Warp? Cleo and Gil haven't even met as of 650 BC.
I'm out until late tonight. I might not have time to play tomorrow, but will play and post no later than Saturday morning in the States.
P.S. - Warrior in London can reach the mountain. I will build spear. Workers vs Settlers: Definitely workers, just not too many too soon.
...except Sumeria built the Pyramids. Did you somehow miss this?ChuckDizzle said:
Overall, this turnset is nice. I like our position. The builds were not optimal, but not I'm not much concerned with that. I am a bit confused about the marketplace, though. We're commercial, it's commercial, it wasn't half-price? We are apparently having trouble getting messages to those workers, they continue to dig mines when three times they have been told to irrigate those unused grasslands. I will fix that. It also seems that our warriors never got their orders, either. One was supposed to guard the peninsula so we could keep our archers out of that area. The other should have been fortified in the mountain. I'll do what I can with the barbs, although they will probably disrupt our citizens, and may even pillage some of our improvements. Also, depending on where those horses go, one of our workers may be in danger.
We haven't towed everyone into the middle ages yet, I thought we were in agreement on this? We need everyone on par so that no one drops out of the running too soon. I would also like to share feudalism, so that the ToA cascade can carry into Sun Tzu's. Not only that, but 7 AI and 2 techs to choose from, surely someone will study engineering. Question: If I wait until we have monotheism, would they be more or less likely to go for engineering?
Khan, you didn't miss a turn, you counted the preflight as turn 1.
Did we do the Time Warp? Cleo and Gil haven't even met as of 650 BC.
I'm out until late tonight. I might not have time to play tomorrow, but will play and post no later than Saturday morning in the States.
P.S. - Warrior in London can reach the mountain. I will build spear. Workers vs Settlers: Definitely workers, just not too many too soon.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
I didn't pull everyone up, left it for the next player. Republic isn't known neither.
Any particular reasons priorizing workers? They only cost twice the settler and we have not many work for them.
Any particular reasons priorizing workers? They only cost twice the settler and we have not many work for them.
I assume workers since they only take off one population point for one turn if they're built when the food box is full. If we build settlers, that'll drop us to size 10 for a turn, and we'll spend several turns at size 11 before hitting size 12 again. Workers are better from the standpoint of keeping max shield and commerce output.
@ Mathias -- as you say, we're planning to gift everyone into the middle ages anyway; why *not* buy Feudalism with some of that extra tech? It's not like we had to shell out any cash.
Regarding monotheism, I'd hang onto it and trade it for engineering. Mono and engineering are almost a toss-up for the AI, IME, but if we trade mono, they'll all go for Theology due to the wonder there. And it's likely, if not certain, that we'll be able to use our position as inter-continental tech broker to our advantage: imagine, for example, that Russia goes for and gets monotheism in ten turns but then Sumeria gets engineering. Even though engineering would be a true monopoly and monotheism not, from Sumeria's viewpoint the trade would be practically equal-value.
More stuff:
The Gil/Cleo thing was a joke, I believe. I was amused, anyway.
Marketplaces don't get discounted. I noticed your comment after the last turnset, but assumed it was a typo.
Renata
@ Mathias -- as you say, we're planning to gift everyone into the middle ages anyway; why *not* buy Feudalism with some of that extra tech? It's not like we had to shell out any cash.
Regarding monotheism, I'd hang onto it and trade it for engineering. Mono and engineering are almost a toss-up for the AI, IME, but if we trade mono, they'll all go for Theology due to the wonder there. And it's likely, if not certain, that we'll be able to use our position as inter-continental tech broker to our advantage: imagine, for example, that Russia goes for and gets monotheism in ten turns but then Sumeria gets engineering. Even though engineering would be a true monopoly and monotheism not, from Sumeria's viewpoint the trade would be practically equal-value.
More stuff:
The Gil/Cleo thing was a joke, I believe. I was amused, anyway.
Marketplaces don't get discounted. I noticed your comment after the last turnset, but assumed it was a typo.
Renata
Yes, build spear. It was on my train ride home from work that I realized this is the correct move.
I like the feud trade. We're gonna want to stay tech leader if we're gonna pace the tech race, and it's trades like this that are gonna make that happen.
Also, I submit we want to get our opponents into better governments, so they can research stuff for us faster. Another reason to make the feud trade.
I like the feud trade. We're gonna want to stay tech leader if we're gonna pace the tech race, and it's trades like this that are gonna make that happen.
Also, I submit we want to get our opponents into better governments, so they can research stuff for us faster. Another reason to make the feud trade.
