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Math04: Another 100K

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Mathias, Jul 16, 2005.

  1. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    Math02 was successful with 8 cities. I'd like to explore the 100K option a bit more, and have come up with a slight variation on the limited-cities concept...

    The goal is to reach 100K culture in just 5 cities. Single-city cultural victory trigger will be 30K to allow for 100K without extreme MM. The slight variation? We're not going to have a limited number of cities! That's right, no limit on cities, just a limit on cities that will generate culture.

    C3C v1.22, India, Monarch
    Other settings TBD

    Roster
    Mathias
    BigNHuge
    Methos
    nerovats
    namliaM
     
  2. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I'm in....
     
  3. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    One question, do you wish this game to be a more peaceful game like you had planned MATH02 to be?

    Interesting variant. I don't believe I've ever played where I didn't build libs in almost every city so this should be an interesting learning experiment.
     
  4. BigNHuge

    BigNHuge This... Is your story...

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    Id like to sign up. Take a break from the war front for some culture. :)
     
  5. BigNHuge

    BigNHuge This... Is your story...

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    Also, does 5 cities of culture mean the first five cities or we pick 5? If its the first 5, that means no FP.
     
  6. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I'm a little confused to your question. Even if it is the first five cities we'd still be able to build the FP once we had ten cities total.

    I'd suggest we pick the five cities as we need to make sure they'll have great production. We may want to place our second city where we can get a settler factory up and obviously it wouldn't become a culture city.

    My opinion is we pick which five cities will be the culture kings.
     
  7. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    Math02 taught me that a peaceful 100K would need more cities in order to reach 100K ahead of top rival's 50K. I believe the best way to contain rival culture is to limit their cities, thereby limiting the maximum amount of culture they can generate, and that's what this variation is intended to do.

    We'll pick which 5 cities will produce culture. Our second city should indeed be settler factory, so our capital can concentrate on culture. Our third city should be coastal for Colossus and Lighthouse. One thing should be obvious: we must not build ToA!
     
  8. BigNHuge

    BigNHuge This... Is your story...

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    Well we could build the FP, but what i was thinking was it wouldnt be very productive. Thats only if we go with the first 5.
     
  9. nerovats

    nerovats Emperor

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    I'd like to join. Usually don't play variants but this looks like fun.
     
  10. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    Waiting on one more... I'll try to get this started tonight.
     
  11. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    I played several starts through several turns before I found what I was looking for:

    C3Cv1.22
    Monarch, India
    Standard Pangaea, 70% Water
    Normal, Temperate, 4 Billion
    Restless Barbarians
    World Seed: 4124520
    Random Rivals:
    --Byzantines
    --China
    --Babylon
    --Aztecs
    --Persia
    --Inca
    --America

    Rivals known because I had to use Play Last World to change Game Limits, as Quick Start doesn't keep any changes made.

    I played through 3000 BC, building 3 warriors and a settler while researching writing for republic slingshot. Notable events:

    3450 BC - Disturb some barbarians. Killed one on IT, and another the following IT.

    3200 BC - Aztec warrior showed up next to the remaining barbarian warrior during previous IT. Aztecs are up Pottery and Warrior Code, but lack Alphabet.

    3150 BC - Disturb more barbarians. Two of them have been killed. The third is off somewhere in the far east, near the distant hill.

    I'd like to place two of our culture cities on the river, one near the silks and the other near the gold. For this reason I think we should build our settler factory NW of the cattle, and eventually abandoning the town so that it doesn't cramp our core cities.
     
  12. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Okay, say we settle the tile adjacent to both cows. If we irrigate both cows, mine the bg and mine the hill we should be able to have a 4-turn factory.

    Still looking at the save to figure out possible culture city sites.
     
  13. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Just thought I would add a pic of Mathias's settler factory ideal and an idea I had for one of the cities. I'm not entirely sure about it but it would be extremely productive if the grasslands were irrigated and mine the hills and mountains.

    Edit: My mistake. I just noticed Mathias said NW of the cattle. Hmm, not for sure about that.

     
  14. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    This is what I had in mind. If we build settler factory on river, it disrupts placement of other cities on the river. If we cut a couple forests to hurry granary, we get lucky enough to find some BG underneath.
     
  15. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Not for sure about #2. It allows for the bg but overlaps a lot with Delhi. Since we are going for 100k with only five cities I believe this game will definitely last long past hospitals. Are we sure we want that much overlap?

    You're gold city looks really good. With the irrigated cow and a few other tiles we should have some awesome commerce in that city! Especially since most of them are also located along the river. Production should be really good there also.

    Not for sure about your settler factory. Need to do the calculations to see how many turns we are talking about.
     
  16. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Irrigate one cow, mine the other still gets us +5 food in Republic. That also gets us shieldwise at 6, 7, 7, 8 or not enough for a 4-turn factory without a bg. So without a bg if we wait until 1 turn into growth at size 4 we would get 7, 7, 8, 8 or enough for a 4 turn without a bg. Did I do that right?

    Edit: Adjusted numbers.
     
  17. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Unless I've screwed up my calculations I'll have to concur with Mathias's idea for the placement of our settler factory. It is a good out of the way spot.

    I'll have to disagree on the the city near the lux's. Recall in MATH02 we were in the Modern Age before reaching 100k, and that was with eight cities! With only five cities it could be a little further into the MA before we reach our mark. I realize that we typically only ran three cities as productive cities in MATH02 so may be okay with the overlap. But have our five core cities at size 20 for the rest of the game would be a lot better than three at size 20 and two at size whatever!

    In opposing my argument I must admit when playing a variant with x amount of cities I have never done an overlap so in truth don't know exactly how it would affect the game.
     
  18. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    The game will definitely go through the modern times, but most of our culture will be built while our five cities are size 12, so overlap is less of a concern. I think it is important to have 2 core culture cities on the river. An attempt at counting settler factory under despotism:

    Turn 1, size 5:
    Center tile = 2f, 1s
    2x irrigated grass with cattle = 8f, 2s
    2x mined grass = 4f, 2s
    1 forest = 1f, 2s
    total = 15f (+5 fpt) 7s (assume 6 spt after corruption)

    Turn 2, growth to size 6:
    new citizen on forest = +8 shields (14 total)

    Turn 3, size 6:
    new citizen from forest to mined grass = +7 shields (21 total)

    Turn 4, growth to size 7:
    new citizen on forest = +9 shields (30 total, assuming 9 out of 10 shields)

    This could work, but probably needs 30% lux

    While in despotism, a mined hill is no better than a forest. In republic, both cattle can be irrigated, and the above scenario could run at size 4 and 5 instead.
     
  19. nerovats

    nerovats Emperor

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    I think Mathias's setup will work. I think delhi should produce 1 more settler first to get a quick 3th city. The SF will take a long time to setup.
     
  20. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well Mathia, should we go ahead and continue with this one? I don't see a problem playing with only four and we can always add someone later if they express interest.

    BTW, is the roster how we signed up? I believe that was how it was in MATH02?

    Oh yeah, should we build one more settler in Delhi or not? I can see it both ways.
     

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