Math06: RaR, OCC, Space

[Methos]

@MV's start: To be honest I don't like playing an OCC game with FP in my radius. The first time I did as soon as I got to size 3 disease hit two turns in a row bringing me back down to size 1. I got back up to about size 4 and disease hit again. At that point I quit that game. I'm not for sure if RaR has a higher chance or if it was just my bad luck.

Edit: If I'm counting right I see 55 spt. Definitely very productive. Didn't check to see how the food holds up. It is a great start. I'm just leery of FP in RaR.

 

[Methos]

Using my start if we settle 1 south like many have stated that gives us 7 mountains (42 shields), at least 2 hills (8 shields), and 3 bg’s (3 shields) for a total of 53 shields. I did not count the forest with the exotic woods nor the two additional (possible) hills to the SE in the fog. If those are hills that brings us to 61 shields. In order to help support citizens working the mountains we'll probably need to chop the forest.

If we move the worker 1 south won’t that let us see two tiles across the water? That should let us know if it’s coastal or a lake. If it is a lake would 1 south still be a good idea? The production is good.

The question is how much of it can we support food-wise?

 

[Mathias]

Alright, we have a full roster.

First off, we want our city on the coast. There is so much more available to us. Just look at The Great Lighthouse in the editor, I don't think you can argue its strength. (The change in 1.04b may be unbalanced for OCC)

Second, I just want a group decision on which civ to play before looking for a start.

Religious is less important as our likely gov moves will be Chieften>Monarchy>Democracy. With a OCC there is no reason to change out of Democracy (unless we go to war and maybe could change to absolute monarch).

Sci is very good, seafaring is also useful (gone extra gpt with all the Ra multiplers). And great UU for cheap defense make greece a strong choice...

A) Cheifdom>Monarchy>Democracy>Federal Republic (Statue of Liberty and higher rate cap)
B) If we are attacked early, which is unlikely, we're in bad shape. If that triggers our GA early, that makes it worse in the long run.

Timing our Golden Age is extremely important, preferably early M&R, so this must be considered when choosing our second trait. The Colossus and Lighthouse are Exp/Com/Sea. Those three traits are to be avoided so that we don't trigger our GA with the Mausoleum. Militaristic doesn't have much for us, so that leaves us with:

AGR - Babylon (Stonehenge or Hanging Gardens)
IND - China (Hanging Gardens or Great Wall)
REL - Tibet (Oracle)

Each of these wonders gives us little more than tourism. The techs from the Oracle could most likely be researched in 2 turns each. Stonehenge pays for our granary for a while, but the cost is negligible. Hanging Gardens is very short-lived, and the Great Wall does less for a little while longer. The Oracle is the only one I'd build for its effect if it didn't trigger GA.

Babylon and Tibet are nearly equal, with China a more distant third. I'm in favor of Tibet, because we can research Writing first while we set out to meet our rivals and possibly trade for the first-level techs that they have.

Please indicate your choice. I may be able to get this started tomorrow.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Babylon...

 

[madviking]

lurker's comment: Me a lurker

 

[Methos]

As stated earlier, my first preference is Babylon due to the extra food.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I'm a babylonian fan as well.

 

[Mathias]

I rolled about 20 starts, these are our choices:

 

[Methos]

#1- This one is extremely shield poor. Remember in RaR you cannot mine grassland. You can cheat the rule by planting forest, mining, and than clearing.

#2- Without the forest I count 37 shields.

#3- Without mining the plains I count 37 shields here as well.

#4- Tons of food, but horrible on production.

Any chance you can try for more hills and mountains? Or do you prefer to take what we get?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I'd go for the original start
Else, the hill one looks best, with FP for early growth.

 

[Mathias]

#1 - Strong food early helps to push science. Base 20 spt at size 15 is sufficient for our needs. In modern times, this can have a base of 64 spt or more.

#2 - Base 22 spt at size 15, I only count this as 62 spt in modern times. Of course, unseen resources will affect the counts for all of these starts.

#3 - Base 27 spt at size 15. These counts are post irrigation, and we'll be able to grow beyond 15 by then, but we need something for comparison. Modern times, 62 spt.

#4 - This one won't come close to the others until we can plant forests. Still, I count 63 spt for modern times.

#5 - Possibly better. Base 20 spt at size 15 before Int'l Port, 41 spt at size 18 after. (#3 is close, 39 spt at size 20) At least 72 spt in modern times.

I'd rank them in this order:
#5
#3
#1
#2
#4

 

[Disenfrancised]

I'm liking number 3, though the unusable water tile will be annoying.

number 5 would be my second choice, though low starting spt means we could miss out on those juicey tourism wonders that will fuel our science in the later ages...

 

[Methos]

I like #5 the most.

 

[DaveShack]

I see you took my "maybe" as a sign up. Don't suppose I can screw things up too badly. I'll get out my magnifying glass and look at some of those starts, but first I'd better refresh my memory of terrain values etc. in RaR.

BTW you don't need to wait for input from me if you get ready first...

 

[Methos]

So, our decision is?

 

[Mathias]

Sorry, I've been a little busy this week. I'll play the first turnset tonight, with the #5 save.

 

[Mathias]

Build: Scout, Scout, Wiseman, TG; now on Shrine, but that can change
Research: Ritualism, Writing (due this turn)

We unfortunately haven't met anyone yet. We may be forced to research more entry-level techs than I'd like.

15 turns each through the first round of turnsets, then 10 after that. Order of play set on the fly. Just post a 'got it' and play.

 

[DaveShack]

Please reconfirm the patch level. The latest I can find is 1.02, if that's not the correct one where would I get it?

 

[Methos]

Please reconfirm the patch level. The latest I can find is 1.02, if that's not the correct one where would I get it?

We're using the 1.04 preBeta version designed by DocT. You'll also need the How to Install notes.

 

[Methos]

Got it. Playing now.