Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
The History of the Church is supposedly written by Joseph Smith and B.H. Roberts.
The Lord is almighty, all knowing, all powerful, He is the beginning and the end. Nothing happens with Him knowing about it. If He said there was treasure and Smith was a true prophet, there would have been treasure. IF Patten was to have mission, then the Lord would have kept him alive. Look at what happened to Job. The Lord gave him a mission (go to Nineveh) and he ran away, eventually threw himself into the sea only to be swallowed by a "Large fish" and coughed up on the seashore.Eran of Arcadia said:And as far as David Patten: you are assuming that if the Lord issues a command to a group, He will make sure that all involved will be able to; I am not so sure.
Concerning D&C 111 and Salem: some of the church leaders thought there was treasure (ie money) in Salem and so went without consulting the Lord; when they were disappointed, they got D&C 111 which explained that even though there was no money, they would still benefit from the trip; 'I will give this city into your hands' doesn't automatically mean 'you will have physical control over the city' but also 'you will have access to what you need'. In other words, some though there was financial treasure but Joseph, speaking prophetically on behalf of God, corrected them and said that the treasure was spiritual, and mentioned its 'wealth of gold and silver shall be yours', but in 'due time' - ie no time limit is set.
The History of the Church is a document by Mormons, for Mormons. I googled B.H. Roberts. Here is line from a review of Robert's autobiography: "For many today, B. H. Roberts is the quintessential Mormon intellectual of the twentieth century." (http://www.signaturebooks.com/autobiog.htm)Eran of Arcadia said:No, disagreeing with me does not make someone biased. Claiming that a church teaches something that they do not teach, and misrepresenting other teachings, is questionable at best. I guess I will have to take your word that HoC says that Joseph made that prophesy, but that doesn't mean he did. (Interestingly, if they kept putting it in after 1891 either they though it invalidated the church or they though the quote was questionable).
Eran of Arcadia said:The Lord told Jonah to tell Ninevah that it would be overthrown, yet it wasn't - not for another 100 or so years. The Lord, all-knowing that He is, knew that Ninevah would repent, but Jonah's message doesn't mention that. Jonah was expecting it to fall and had to be shown by God why it wasn't. False prophesy? Or was the prophesy conditional to begin with?
1 The word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time, saying, 2 "Get up, go to Nineveh, that great city, and proclaim to it the message that I tell you." 3 So Jonah set out and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly large city, a three days' walk across. 4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's walk. And he cried out, "Forty days more, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5 And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth. 6 When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water. 8 Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish." 10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.
Sir Bugsy said:How can you say that? The facsimilies that appear in the Pearl of great Price match.
I don't believe I can shake your faith Eran. I am just trying to show any non-Mormon readers that there are very many questionable aspects of the LDS Church. If someone wishes to investigate the teachings and doctrine of the Mormons with an open mind, you come away with more questions than answers.
Sir Bugsy said:IF Patten was to have mission, then the Lord would have kept him alive.