Matt's Mormon Thread

[Methos]

You and I are in agreement. We as humans don't know what a day is in to God. Who's knows.

This I agree with 100%. I believe man put their own meaning, or description, on the length of God’s day, in the only way they knew how. Why can’t a day be equal to billions of years to God?

I did not realize the Southern Baptist believed that way. Interesting…

Off-Topic: Ah, I see we have another individual from Missouri here.

 

[bhsup]

Off-Topic: Ah, I see we have another individual from Missouri here.

Greatest State in the Union. Wouldn't dream of being from anywhere else!

 

[Merzbow]

The Scripture is 100% accurate and infallible, I don't disagree with that. The first 7 days were of longer period of time. Here's a nice link that sums it up pretty good. Yes, they were days, but not in the way you're thinking. There is absolutely no contradiction, so I have no problem saying evolution and an ancient earth are in harmony with Scripture.

Now, regarding the Southern Baptist Convention saying the earth is less than 10,000 years old, unless you are claiming that I and all other Southern Baptists have to be 100% in lockstep with the Southern Baptist Convention to be a Southern Baptist, then your claim was still a gross generalization.

Let's let this go here, or you start a different thread of you want. This is supposed to be Matt's (and others') Mormon Q&A thread.

Thanks for linking that article... fascinating stuff. I'll have to order the associated book.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Let's let this go here, or you start a different thread of you want. This is supposed to be Matt's (and others') Mormon Q&A thread.

This thread is a conversation on religion. We have discussed, compared and contrasted numerous religious viewpoints.

Please don't pull this thread jack nonsense on me. It doesn't hold water. Any mods want to chime in here?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

No, Sir Bugsy, Matt created this thread to allow others to answer question about Mormonism specifically, hence the title. Now I have no problem with anyone discussing Southern Baptists, but it seems to me that such discussion would best be served in another thread. Perhaps VRWCAgent would like to start one? If I'm wrong, and any thread about religion is for general discussion on religion, I would appreciate the mods correcting me.

 

[Methos]

During a discussion with a co-worker he brought up an interesting book they are studying in his Sunday School class. It is titled, “The Case for Christ”, by Lee Strobel. I haven’t made it very far into the book but I am finding the interviews and discussions very interesting.

I’m enjoying the book and though you all may like to read it yourself.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That sounds interesting, but to be honest I tend to shy away from logical proofs of faith - the way I see it, it is possible that just as good a case could be made against it. Of course, I'm not criticizing Strobel's work, and it seems to have led him to a faith in Christ, but mine is based on less tangible things.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

During my lunchtime walk today, as I approached the local Moromon church, I remembered that Mormons don't have a cross anywhere in their church. During my several visits I have confirmed this.

Why?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Basically, although we do consider the Crucifixion to be a great sacrifice and an important part of the Atonement, we don't see it as the only part. Additionally, although it was important that Christ died, this was only important because he rose again. We choose not to focuse on his crucifixion. It is not because we see the use of such images as inherently wrong, as I believe some Christian churches do.

 

[Newawd]

And it's not some crusade against crosses either. I have seen many an LDS church where there was a painting of Christ on the cross somewhere within the church.

You know, one common... misconception that is held amongst the many people is the idea that Mormons believe that everyone who is not a baptized Mormon before they kick the bucket is going to burn in hell for all eternity. One important thing to understand is that we see God as being Just. I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to argue that Sir Bugsy doesn't strongly believe everything that he is saying about his perception of God. Would God punish him (assuming my view of God is correct) because of an honest misconception? Absolutely not. God is just and fair. That being the case, everyone will have a chance to accept or deny Christs gospel *when they know it for what it is*. Were it not so, God would not be just.

So, don't worry Bugsy, you'll still have a chance. Lol! (Please forgive the friendly ribbing)

Don't try to ask me exactly how God will work it all out, as if I don't know. I have an inkling, but that's it.

When people are in trouble is when they read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, get an answer that yes, it *is* truly a book of His scripture (translated by a true prophet), and then decide not to accept it for various reason (ie. pride or lazyness). If you do that... Well, good luck in the hereafter.

 

[Merzbow]

That being the case, everyone will have a chance to accept or deny Christs gospel *when they know it for what it is*. Were it not so, God would not be just.

From what the missionaries told me yesterday (yes we're meeting with them ), when you die you hang around in the spirit world until the final resurrection and time of judgment. In there you'll have the chance to accept the gospel if you hadn't during your earthly life. Then after resurrection and judgment you get placed into a particular area of paradise depending on your worthiness - not a binary thing like heaven/hell, but a gradation. This makes much more sense to me than throwing all unbelievers into hell as traditional Christianity teaches.

 

[Methos]

From what the missionaries told me yesterday (yes we're meeting with them ), when you die you hang around in the spirit world until the final resurrection and time of judgment.

I'm curious as to where they are getting this? Is it from the Bible or the BoM?

 

[downtown]

attention other mormons

AP reports that Gordon B Hinkley is in the hospital...church wont disclose why. flim at 11

 

[Methos]

That sounds interesting, but to be honest I tend to shy away from logical proofs of faith - the way I see it, it is possible that just as good a case could be made against it. Of course, I'm not criticizing Strobel's work, and it seems to have led him to a faith in Christ, but mine is based on less tangible things.

I find this statement as rather odd. I’m a Christian and fully believe Jesus died for my sins. Does this mean I can learn nothing from this book? Since a case could be made against it should I not bother with this book? For that matter any book at all, even including the BoM? To turn away from any book because it refers to ‘less tangible’ things is turning your back on furthering your knowledge on that subject. To be honest, and meaning no offense, but this makes me wonder at your ability to be open-minded.

 

[ironduck]

On a related note, how many christians read other holy books from other religions? How many muslims read the new testament? How many hinduists read the torah?

They're all quite certain they're in the right religion, but it's rare that they've actually looked into any others.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@methos: I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was that such a book would probably not do a lot to increase my faith, personally, because of the way I am. I also believe, of course, that Jesus died for my sins, and seeing evidence of this would be good but would not, probably, make me believe it any more. If it has that effect on anyone else, that's great. I didn't want to imply that I would be 'turning away' from such a book.

The reference to the Spirit World, like most of our doctrine on the afterlife, comes from the Doctrine and Covenants, although the idea can be seen in the Book of mormon and (if that is how one interprets it) in the Bible.

@ironduck: so far I have only skimmed the Quran. I keep meaning to read it - now my plan is, since I am learning Arabic, to one day read it in the original.

 

[Methos]

Since I didn’t know who Gordon B Hinkley was I googled him and came up with a very odd link.

For those Mormons out there have you ever heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

I did learn that Hinkley is the President of the LDS Church.

@Ironduck:I agree with you, not many people would read religious books outside their own faith.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@Methos: yes, I am familiar with the Mountain Meadow Massacre, it came up earlier on this thread. Basically, the evidence indicates to me that a bunch of Mormons murdered a bunch of people, and that Church leadership was not pleased.

@ironduck: to further your question, I would like to read the sacred works of all religions. From what I know of the Quran, I agree with 90% of it but the important difference is that I believe that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Methos]

Basically, the evidence indicates to me that a bunch of Mormons murdered a bunch of people, and that Church leadership was not pleased.

Including women and children, though they left 8 year olds and younger alive. I'm curious as to why 8? Is there some significance of that age in Mormonism?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Basically, although we do consider the Crucifixion to be a great sacrifice and an important part of the Atonement, we don't see it as the only part. Additionally, although it was important that Christ died, this was only important because he rose again. We choose not to focuse on his crucifixion. It is not because we see the use of such images as inherently wrong, as I believe some Christian churches do.

Are you saying that a cross is not a symbol, but a craven image? Then why did I see an idyllic painting of Joseph Smith at the church I visited? If you visit a synagogue you will see a Star of David. Symbols are not craven images.

To Lutherans, Christ's death and resurrection is everything. Are there any other Christian denomination where this is not so?

Are there any other Christian churches that do not use a cross in or on their building?