[NFP] Maya First Look

Mayan just join the club of the civs I always put in my games with assymetrical systems: Kongo, Mali, Maoris. They look fun and I can't wait to try them! As a tall/science player, Mayan are my go-to.

Maybe the only complaint that I might have is that, while being one of the more unique civs, they don't feel unique. It's probably purely personal, but I like my civs with vibrant characteristics. Here, everything seems cool, but not so much. They do not have ultra-strong bonuses in one way and mega-strong maluses in another way (like Kongo or Mali). Kind of "meh" but that can be really interesting to play!

The pattern for your civ would be: your capital in the center, with, close to the capital, an industrial zone and an entertainment complex (because all your cities would be in the zone bonus), and all your external cities full of farms, plantations, observatories and nothing else. Put your units at the border to protect anyone who would attack you, and you're ready for the stars.

Also, people said that it's a shame that their is nothing tied to the city-states looking at the description that seemed to put an emphasis on the city-states layout of Mayan culture. But I personally think it's a good thing because:
  1. As people said, it might be an hint for Italy linked to city-States (and I WANT Italy; they culturally built Europe; and saying we can't have them because of the ROman, I would say that everybody want Byzantium while 1) the official name of Byzantium was "Roman Empire" so it was literally the same empire than the Romans and 2) they shared the exact same capital with the Ottomans during a long time, so TSL is always a mess)
  2. The ability is linked to the city-states layout of real ife Mayans. What Lady Six Sky is known for? Managing to gather cities under her rule in a time where Mayans were just squabbling anf githing cities-States in an endless war. And her LUA perfectly represents that: cities near the capital are the Mayan cities-states that bent to the rule of Lady Six Sky; the other, too far, are still reluctant to obey her and so produce less for the Empire. It's a very nice way to represent a cities-states league. Lady Six Sky managed to controll independent cities of her culture, and I always saw cities-states in Civ VI as completely different cultures. Having LSS being able to control ingame cities-states would be the same as if LSS would have, in real life, a special ability to deal with North American or South American cities/tribes/nations, which is false.
So, IMO: very nice and unique design, can't wait to play them, maybe in a need of some more flagrant uniqueness. Biggest complain I would have: after having the Suguba and the Cothon as unique districts that change the look of the buildings in it, I would have wanted something similar for next districts ie the Observatory. I mean, the library and university kind of don't fit at all with the district (completely different colours).
 
Interesting design, but the number needs to be tweaked, otherwise this civ is gonna so underwhelming. When they have a unique Campus, they will for sure be compared to the other one. If this is a truly good design, there will be situations where the Seowon shines and situations where the Observatory dominates. So far, I can't pinpoint a single case where the Observatory is the better version.
Also, I'd rather see a +15% bonus and -10% malus than the other way around. Why does the negative have the outweigh the positive when the positive in itself is already limiting?

The Observatory definitely has it's issues compared to the Seowon (or even the base district) in that it basically has zero adjacency bonus when placed without using builder charges. It's pluses are you can still place districts around it and it doesn't require hills, but those are minor in comparison.

I'd say they should crank up that bonus/malus % overall for the effect tbh. 10/15% doesn't seem like a lot.
 
Interesting design, but the number needs to be tweaked, otherwise this civ is gonna so underwhelming. When they have a unique Campus, they will for sure be compared to the other one. If this is a truly good design, there will be situations where the Seowon shines and situations where the Observatory dominates. So far, I can't pinpoint a single case where the Observatory is the better version.
Also, I'd rather see a +15% bonus and -10% malus than the other way around. Why does the negative have the outweigh the positive when the positive in itself is already limiting?
The seowon truly shines because of the three kingdoms interplay with mines and farms.
The observatory can also be built on flat land (doesn’t seowon need a hill?)
I think the defense focus of the maya is the key differentiator. The farm thing for fresh water is cool but maybe not meta power.

BTW does anyone know if the aqueduct is set to give you fresh water modifier or if it gives you bonus to compensate for not having fresh water? IE can a Mayan city ever get more than +2 from an aqueduct due to no fresh water bonuses. If they can still get +6 then that really changes the calculus.
 
There is a tie-in with disasters in that getting their farms destroyed would be apocalyptic.
Housing and science could plummet either from war or natural causes.
 
The Maya are going to be considered one of the most dangerous civs in the game.

They have a powerful early ranged unit, bonus amenities, housing, and gold from *farms* (for god's sake), and a science boost.

Aztec are still number one, but Maya is dang close. They are explosive.
 
According to how it is phrased, the plantation bonus doesnt not stack, only the farm one does. Doesn't matter if it's next to 1 or 6 plantations, you have 2 bonus science from that source. If it's stackable, great, it is decent, if it doesn't then this district is 100% weaker. You do not have jungle/mountain/reef/fissure bonus for this district, please read it again.

+2 science from each adjacent plantation tile

Obs.png
 
The Korea comparisons are to be expected but not helpful. In isolation, the Observatory is a half price campus that can very easily be splendid. That is very powerful
You don't play the game versus yourself in isolation, which is kinda the whole point of the game.

The observatory can also be built on flat land (doesn’t seowon need a hill?)
Which is more limiting: find a hill or find a resource that can be improved by a plantation?
 
According to how it is phrased, the plantation bonus doesnt not stack, only the farm one does. Doesn't matter if it's next to 1 or 6 plantations, you have 2 bonus science from that source. If it's stackable, great, it is decent, if it doesn't then this district is 100% weaker. You do not have jungle/mountain/reef/fissure bonus for this district, please read it again.

Yeah, my edits added more based on closer reading. According to the spoken description and leader page description, it sounded like the plantation bonus is not stackable. But according to the in-game tooltip, it says +2 for each adjacent plantation. So certainly something to clarify.
 
You don't play the game versus yourself in isolation, which is kinda the whole point of the game.


Which is more limiting: find a hill or find a resource that can be improved by a plantation?

But not every game features Korea either. If every Civ was compared solely to the Seowon, they should all pack up and go home.

My point is that being weaker than the Seowon =/= weak. It’s a strong district
 
According to how it is phrased, the plantation bonus doesnt not stack, only the farm one does.
It’s just ability wording. In the video when they mouse over the observatory you can see it says “+2 for each adjacent plantation.”

That text is auto generated when you add adjacency effects to things. It doesn’t lie.
 
This civ is giving me serious Ethiopia in Civ V vibes, with the incentives to turtle up and defend your tall core. I wonder if they might go in a different direction with Ethiopia this time, then.
Like maybe an expansive Aksum Empire direction? :mischief:
A tall defensive strange isn't what I was expecting either. I enjoy it with Korea so I'm intrigued and will definitely give them a shot.
 
Yeah, my edits added more based on closer reading. According to the spoken description and leader page description, it sounded like the plantation bonus is not stackable. But according to the in-game tooltip, it says +2 for each adjacent plantation. So certainly something to clarify.
The in-game tooltip is actually worse, since it contains 2 sentences that suggest both things that are completely opposite to each other. The opening line says it doesnt stack, read further down it says it can stack. If it stacks then this district is good, if it doesnt then it is kinda mediocre.
 
Which is more limiting: find a hill or find a resource that can be improved by a plantation?

But less limiting in a way. What's worse: a campus with only a +3 adjacency bonus if fully surrounded by farms or no campus at hall because not a single hill/all hills are occupied by strategic/luxurious resources?
 
But not every game features Korea either. If every Civ was compared solely to the Seowon, they should all pack up and go home.

My point is that being weaker than the Seowon =/= weak. It’s a strong district
You cant compare every piece of infrastructure to the Seowon to make a point, it's like apples and oranges, but when two pieces are designed to replace the same entity, and are meant to do the same thing, then yes, the comparison is valid.
 
The in-game tooltip is actually worse, since it contains 2 sentences that suggest both things that are completely opposite to each other. The opening line says it doesnt stack, read further down it says it can stack. If it stacks then this district is good, if it doesnt then it is kinda mediocre.

I don’t understand where it says it doesn’t stack. It says +2 for adjacent plantations. If it didn’t stack, I’d expect the wording to be +2 for an adjacent plantation. Surely?
 
The observatory can also be built on flat land (doesn’t seowon need a hill?)

Yes, it needs a hill, which means you're forced to lose some production.

IMO the Seowon is better early, since you can get at least a flat +4 as soon as you build it, while the Observatory require 2 plantations to achieve the same. As the game progresses, the Observatory has potential for more, so it's better for long term. It's easier to fit it in your city, since you can build anywhere and you want adjacent districts, while the Seowon becomes an obstacle for city planning.
 
But less limiting in a way. What's worse: a campus with only a +3 adjacency bonus if fully surrounded by farms or no campus at hall because not a single hill/all hills are occupied by strategic/luxurious resources?
How often do you find yourself in the second situation, may I ask, or is that just a piece of imagination to justify your reason? I can easily imagine a situation that never happens myself, for example, what if the Maya spawns in an area with 100% hills and every piece of flat land is occupied by a luxury resource?
 
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