[NFP] Maya First Look

[Sostratus]

Isn't this is the max?

I was just playing with this - yeah, I don't think you can beat that.

HOWEVER. In civ the orientation of the tiles is different so things are rotated. If you actually try to do this ingame it must be like this:

You can't go the other orientation.

 

[Morningcalm]

Can we meme 5 year old Smoking Squirrel for Civ 7 though?

Well, we had Pacal as a pouty child in Civ 4, so why not?! Lol.

Smoking Squirrel was a successful warrior in his own right too, though subservient to the powerful Calakmul overlords. So he certainly would be a worthy enough leader (personally though I hope they go down the Maya queen roster again since there are at least two other warrior queens of note.)

 

[kaspergm]

I'm kind of underwhelmed by this civ. With no bonuses towards getting builders, I expect the housing rules will hit you HARD early game. Not a fan of hard shoe-horning you into a specific playstyle by handing out penalties. Kind of surprised - and disappointed - that the Observatory has no intermix between religion and science. Something like offering a Great Prophet point at the very least.

 

[Cerilis]

Huzzah! Being right sure does feel good. That was literally one of the animations I was telling you about (the one at 1:05)

I suppose you don't give a crap anyway.

Yet you failed to show me yourself.

And indeed, it matters not. I still think she has overall a different feeling than Amanitore and more similar to Gorgo. Amanitore is kinda more threatening and her demeanor definitely has more pomp, while Lady Six Sky and Gorgo appear more like protectors (She protec!), somewhat more open towards the watcher, but also ready to defend their people.

 

[King William I]

Based on some computations the most cities the maya can have within 6 tiles of their capital is 9 - because of the 3 tile exclusion zone around a city, you can't layer them 2 ranks deep (you'd need 8 tile radius for that.) Building a ring of cities with 5 tiles between them and the capital gives you 9, although it's radially asymmetric. Basically just place a city at that distance and then go every 3 tiles around the hexagon. You can move some of the cities inwards 1-2 tiles, but you cannot fit 10 cities AFAIK.
View attachment 555633


The seowon is probably better overall combined with Three Kingdoms. But maya ALSO has rock solid defense - it's hard to overstate the incredible ability to have UNIQUE ARCHERS that deal both more damage near the capital and more damage to wounded units. Korea relies on raw tech rate to defend, but that only gets you so far on deity. Actually having essentially a 33-38 strength archer is crazy. It gives you a lot of safety you can exploit to get your 8-9 cities up.

It's also implied the Maya UU has a stronger base attack on top of those bonuses. I don't play deity, but defending should be a breeze early game

 

[PhilBowles]

So no Pacal the Great? What a huge disappointment. He is the most well-known and important character in what little we know of Mayan culture. Really bad decision.

Being the most well-known (and already used in two of the past appearances in Civ games by the Maya) is surely a good reason to explore alternatives and expose audiences to a character they likely know less about? Pacal was important because he raised Palenque to importance, but a society made up of a number of states with independent leaders can reasonably choose the leader of a different one. It's not a case of arguing over the merits of, say, one Chinese or English leader option over another who led the same country. Naranjo isn't one of the better-known Mayan sites, certainly, and I'm not sure what particular reason there is to favour her over either Pacal or the Civ III leader Smoke Jaguar (of Copan, also a better-known site than Naranjo), but Lady Six Sky's name has come up here multiple times in the past. I don't know the reasons why beyond a liking for female leaders (or an expectation that Firaxis likes female leaders), but I suspect her prominence here influenced the final choice.

Tbh, even the malus doesn’t stop Maya being quite a strong Civ even if she decided to spread like a Phoenician plague.

Napkin math (please anyone who is smarter than me, replace with actual math)

Average Civ:

Campus for 54 prouduction, average 2 adjacency

Maya:

Observatory for 27 production, average 3 adjacency

I was forgetting that special districts are half price, but I suspect it's optimistic to expect the average adjacency bonus of an observatory to be higher than that for a campus given that siting near a plantation may often cost you siting near a mountain, as well as being a tile you can't use for a district or farm.

Thank God that Mayans didn't get end-of-the-world bonuses, I was very afraid of that.

They get an Apocalypse scenario instead. Did anyone notice if they get Mayan calendar dates as they did in Civ V? I loved that touch.

 

[SirMediocrity]

Yet you failed to show me yourself.

And indeed, it matters not. I still think she has overall a different feeling than Amanitore and more similar to Gorgo. Amanitore is kinda more threatening her demeanor definitely has more pomp, while Lady Six Sky and Gorgo appear more like protectors (She protec!), more open towards the watcher, but also ready to defend their people.

Still right tho

Just understand that I'm usually wrong about everything so I really need to be right about this

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

UU is 28 ranged and 15 melee with +5 against damaged.
Archer is 25 and 15. So 3 more ranged strength up to 8 more against damaged.

 

[bengalryan9]

With tightly packed cities there are certain natural wonders you are going to want to hope don't spawn near your capital for sure. Losing four tiles to something like Chocolate Hills or Pantanal would be rough.

For all the predictions of Maya potentially having immunity to natural disasters as an ability, it actually looks like they will be more susceptible. Droughts, floods, fires, and tornados can easily wreck multiple cities and destroy your farms.

Maybe Mayan palace should have a boost to housing as part of an ability just so you've got a little more wiggle room before your capital is up against the housing cap?

 

[Sostratus]

With no bonuses towards getting builders, I expect the housing rules will hit you HARD early game. Not a fan of hard shoe-horning you into a specific playstyle by handing out penalties. Kind of surprised - and disappointed - that the Observatory has no intermix between religion and science. Something like offering a Great Prophet point at the very least.

I feel like I would rather have +10% near capital and no change outside it, because no one likes penalties. But It's probably related to the fact that just settling near luxuries gives more amenities so a lot of your cities can start with ecstatic.
Plus as shown by posts above you can fit a lot of cities inside that 6 tile range (although in reality i suspect people will go for 6-8 instead of 12 due to the terrain.)

It's going to be much more painful on maps that are larger or have rougher terrain/water scattered about. If they are biased to a nice flat plain/jungle start then on small maps, which seems to be the actual default, they will be just fine. 15% isn't actually that much for how chonky they can get their core yields.

 

[bengalryan9]

UU is 28 ranged and 15 melee with +5 against damaged.
Archer is 25 and 15. So 3 more ranged strength up to 8 more against damaged.

But they also get a +5 boost if within 6 tiles of your capital, making them supreme defenders. Rushing the Maya will be tough.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They get an Apocalypse scenario instead. Did anyone notice if they get Mayan calendar dates as they did in Civ V? I loved that touch.

It's a special mode that you can turn on and off for the base game. The Maya don't have to be in the game to play it. Though their release along with the mode was deliberate.

 

[Icicle]

I love the animation. This is a cool civ.

 

[Naktis]

Good job, firaxis didn't dissapoint , great leader, all should be happy

 

[conorbebe]

Just watched the video and haven't read any of the other responses yet but, wow! This is pretty much everything I would have hoped for from the Maya! Can't really fault it!

Science and farming bonuses, our first female mesoamerican leader, AND the hul'che which ACTUALLY USES THE CORRECT THE TERM!!! I was totally expecting it to be called "Alatlist" in typical Civilization fashion, so this really has me pleasantly surprised! Great work, Firaxis!

 

[CivLuvah]

Wow, the video dropped the way the announcement of the DLC dropped - unexpected! I think most of my thoughts on the Maya are already expressed in the past 11 pages of this thread haha

Yes! Lady Six Sky! I screamed to the sky (not literally) when I heard she was the leader!

What time was the video posted?

 

[Neirai]

Yet you failed to show me yourself.

And indeed, it matters not. I still think she has overall a different feeling than Amanitore and more similar to Gorgo. Amanitore is kinda more threatening and her demeanor definitely has more pomp, while Lady Six Sky and Gorgo appear more like protectors (She protec!), somewhat more open towards the watcher, but also ready to defend their people.

She protec from aztec

 

[SirMediocrity]

Maybe I'm some kind of scrooge but I feel kind of disappointed by the first look video. It feels kind of empty or something.

I dunno. Maybe I have a stomach virus or something.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

1) Cool it got female leader
2) Cool it got scientific bonus
3) Rest is meh for me.

I mean... Mayans are an incredible civilization, you can do so many things with them, and their civ5 ability was one of the most fun, original abilities in the game (and the simple idea of science shrine was also surprisingly game changing). So I have expected something magical, instead they get nice but not that crazy flat yield bonuses and %. Not bad, but not not amazing (also tbh I suspect they will be in the weaker half of civs).

Oh well, let's see Gran Bolivar and Ethiopia.

I don't think a Civ (any Civ) with a unique science district (cheaper cost) can be considered as a weaker in general. If they are S Trier Civ? This is highly disputable. If they are A Tier Civ? Very possible especially in smaller maps. If they are B Tier Civ. For sure.
Definitely not a C, D, or F Civ.

 

[bengalryan9]

I don't think a Civ (any Civ) with a unique science district (cheaper cost) can be considered as a weaker in general. If they are S Trier Civ? This is highly disputable. If they are A Tier Civ? Very possible especially in smaller maps. If they are B Tier Civ. For sure.
Definitely not a C, D, or F Civ.

A very good point. Half priced campuses alone are very strong.