[NFP] Maya First Look

[kryat]

The seowon truly shines because of the three kingdoms interplay with mines and farms.
The observatory can also be built on flat land (doesn’t seowon need a hill?)
I think the defense focus of the maya is the key differentiator. The farm thing for fresh water is cool but maybe not meta power.

BTW does anyone know if the aqueduct is set to give you fresh water modifier or if it gives you bonus to compensate for not having fresh water? IE can a Mayan city ever get more than +2 from an aqueduct due to no fresh water bonuses. If they can still get +6 then that really changes the calculus.

I believe that it gives a +4 housing, per Carl. It’s somewhere around page 5 in here.

 

[IvoryPavane]

You cant compare every piece of infrastructure to the Seowon to make a point, it's like apples and oranges, but when two pieces are designed to replace the same entity, and are meant to do the same thing, then yes, the comparison is valid.

The comparison is only valid for Maya vs Korea, and all I’m trying to say is that the comparison doesn’t work well for most Civs.

In the overarching world of Civ, it’s a strong district. Laurier of Canada would kill for an observatory, I’d imagine.

 

[XX36789]

Looks like a great civ to pump out easy Science victories with.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The bottom line in my opinion is if the plantation bonus stacks, then it is a good district in its own right, not because it is a cheap campus and campus is a good district. If it doesnt, then its not. Kinda like the electronics factory, not a good building in its own right, but you still build it anyway, cuz the factory it replaces is a good building.

 

[IvoryPavane]

The bottom line in my opinion is if the plantation bonus stacks, then it is a good district in its own right, not because it is a cheap campus and campus is a good district. If it doesnt, then its not. Kinda like the electronics factory, not a good building in its own right, but you still build it anyway, cuz the factory it replaces is a good building.

This is fair. It’s more around whether it’s a well designed district as opposed to being a strong one.

I’m pretty certain the plantations will stack though

 

[leandrombraz]

The opening line does not suggest that. It is phrased in the same way that the gold bonus on the mekewap is phrased.

+1 Gold if adjacent to a Luxury Resource

+2 science bonus for adjacent plantations

One is singular, the other is plural. It isn't the best written tooltip in the history of gaming, but considering that it says "+2 science from each adjacent plantation tile" below, It's safe to assume that when they say plantations, they actually mean more than one.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

This is fair. It’s more around whether it’s a well designed district as opposed to being a strong one.

I’m pretty certain the plantations will stack though

I really hope it does, the phrasing does throw me off a bit cuz in the first sentence they dont use "each" but in the following one they do, so I'm suspicious. The district will get something going for them, although it's not like you find plantation resources 100% of the time. I already am not fond of the malus percentage outweighs the bonus, and the bonus is already limiting how many cities you can get.

 

[UWHabs]

You cant compare every piece of infrastructure to the Seowon to make a point, it's like apples and oranges, but when two pieces are designed to replace the same entity, and are meant to do the same thing, then yes, the comparison is valid.

Now, it also depends a little on what you count with it. The Seowon also improves yields of adjacent farms/mines, which certainly gives it an extra boost relative to the Observatory. But the rest of Maya's bonuses mean that you're going to run more farms for them.

Otherwise, I kind of feel that the Maya could you a little more than just the +1 housing and +1 gold from farms to balance out the lost housing otherwise. Especially compared to Mekewaps which can gain +2 housing by the end of the tech tree, I think I'd like the Maya to get that +1 housing and +1 gold extra for all the improvements that currently give you housing (ie. plantations and camps too). I wouldn't be terribly opposed to them getting some sort of bonus to aqueducts too, since they're going to be critical for the Maya to build to get cities back to the normal housing levels of other civs.

 

[Venceslau Pietro Pietra]

I am kinda sad, Lady Six Sky is a Amanitore reskin and maya overall seens like a better designed but weaker version of korea, dissapointed.

 

[Bosque]

Imagine a cluster of 6-8 (or more) cities around your capital, with many of them having observatories with +4 or +5 adjacencies. Then add the policy that gives +100% adjacencies to campus districts.

 

[Jkchart]

With no bonuses towards getting builders,

But there is...+10% production and +10% gold to those close cities means faster obtaining builders (and of course +10% faith for those monumentality golden ages), and the gold from farms to purchase the builders. It's just not a direct or explicit bonus.

 

[Sostratus]

I am kinda sad, Lady Six Sky is a Amanitore reskin and maya overall seens like a better designed but weaker version of korea, dissapointed.

I don’t want to let you down hard but there’s a 99% chance every civ revealed in the next year will be weaker than Korea. Power creep isn’t a good thing.

Otherwise, I kind of feel that the Maya could you a little more than just the +1 housing and +1 gold from farms to balance out the lost housing otherwise. Especially compared to Mekewaps which can gain +2 housing by the end of the tech tree, I think I'd like the Maya to get that +1 housing and +1 gold extra for all the improvements that currently give you housing (ie. plantations and camps too). I wouldn't be terribly opposed to them getting some sort of bonus to aqueducts too, since they're going to be critical for the Maya to build to get cities back to the normal housing levels of other civs.

I agree with extending it to plantations at least, given the observatory focus.
I also think it’d be cool if a civ could get the farm boosts at feudalism and replaceable parts extended to include plantations and pastures.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Korea has a greater overall power potential, but the Maya will be more flexible with the map layout. In addition the Maya have an archer UU, archers are already super strong, so a buffed one is gonna to be very strong as well. Korea has to wait for their attack to ramp.

In a perfect situation Korea will be stronger, but there are going to a lot of maps where the Maya and their stronger start will let them surpass Korea.

Either way, these 2 will both always be high tier civs as science is strong at all levels and ranged UU are as well.

 

[leandrombraz]

Lets not forget that you also get a 10% bonus to all yields in potentially 13 cities, and you get more citizens, which give some science and let you work more tiles/specialists, while Korea gets 3% culture and science in cities with governors. Overall, the Maya seems like a stronger Civ with a worse early game. You can potentially get more Science early with Korea, but as the game progresses, the Maya gets stronger than Korea. If Firaxis listened to our suggestions and gave specialists some love, like a policy that doubles its yields in cities with X population, then the Maya will have a lot of potential. I'm looking forward to read the patch notes, I hope it will include some pleasant surprises.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I don’t want to let you down hard but there’s a 99% chance every civ revealed in the next year will be weaker than Korea. Power creep isn’t a good thing.

Literally no one cared to bring up Korea during any first look reveal in Gathering Storm, because the comparison is invalid, different civs are supposed to strong at different things. The reason why people bring up Korea here because Maya is supposed to be strong at the same thing Korea is, but looks pale in every aspect in comparison. No one is asking for a 2nd Korea in this Frontier Pass, just somewhat a power balance between civs that are supposed to tread the same path.

 

[tedhebert]

I was just playing with this - yeah, I don't think you can beat that.

HOWEVER. In civ the orientation of the tiles is different so things are rotated. If you actually try to do this ingame it must be like this:
View attachment 555638

You can't go the other orientation.

I'm loving the IDEA of this civ, but I'm really convinced that 6 tiles max is going to prove way too limitative... It'll force maya players to plant cities on tiles that are sub-par in order to maximise the number of cities. I think the number 6 should be changed to 8; That would leave a little chance for strategic choices, not force where your cities have to be as soon as you plant your capital.

It's really too bad, because I like this kind of civ that makes you play differently !

 

[Cerilis]

Mhrm, I wonder if they will have a strong plantation resource starting bias. It could make a large difference.

 

[conorbebe]

Why do people keep saying she's an Amanitore re-skin? She literally isn't? Just because they both have pudgy arms doesn't mean they use an identical model. I also just checked and the animations are entirely new, not re-used.

 

[Haig]

Who knows what buffs and nerfs the patches bring to older civs, as the developers said there will be balance changes.

 

[leandrombraz]

Mhrm, I wonder if they will have a strong plantation resource starting bias. It could make a large difference.

I assume it will. I mean, it make so much sense, it's hard to think they wouldn't do it.