Mayor problems for team Roadkill

[yatta77]

I think CreeDakota got it right:

- Worker first: SiP, and keep the G Spy for later;

- Settler first: settle on stone, keep city #2 for workers, and build both Wonders in the Capital.

@All: Both options are quite reasonable IMO, maybe the best it is just let the player who starts the game decide which one to adopt?

Either choice won't kill our game I believe, and I'd like if we actually play a bit in the next days: we are in 6 already and I fear that too much discussing risks to make the enthusiasm about playing this game fade out a bit. I mean, better a not perfect game, than a game we won't finish!

Just my opinion.

- yatta

EDIT: cross posting with the post above

 

[LKendter]

We do need a roster set to get moving.

 

[yatta77]

I vote SiP - I was hoping to see another food tile, but without it I can't justify setter on stone.

Ok, we have a preference already.

However, I want to settle scientist first. We need to more fast on key wonders - especially to be able to get more GG points!

I think we all agree on this.
The question was: better an (Imperialist) settler first and settle a second city with the G Spy ASAP, or a worker first and delay settling the second city to later?

With SiP I personally like better worker first.

- yatta

 

[yatta77]

We do need a roster set to get moving.

Pardon my ignorance, what do you mean with "roster set"?

We are in 6 I think is enough. It is not?

Whoever wishes to play a bit post about it, take the save, play, post again the save and a description of what he/she did, and so on. Just don't play too long sessions and give a chance to all to participate. At least, we did like this last game.

There is something else we are supposed to do in your opinion before starting?

- yatta

 

[Killroyan]

The line next to the gems are peaks. You can tell that from the steeper slopes there.

I just ran a test game. I inserted a GS and some stone on a new map to see if it was possible to get the following stuff. Tech path went hunting -> mining -> masonry -> mysticism -> BW. Started to work on worker and settled the great scientist. Improved the deer with the worker and at that time masonry was done. Switched capitol to great wall immediately. With quarry up and roaded the build time dropped immensely and I inserted stonehenge next. In 2650 BC I got both wonders with one chop. Maybe luck but I would say this is a good date. The next GP would come out then in 15 turns.
Perfect timing for warriors and settlers then. I inserted 2 warriors and 2 settlers and then started on the pyramids. When I was about to settle city number 3 I had the GP ready. Chopped 3 forests (lousy tiles to work in this map, no hills whatsoever and no gems) and I was still able to drop the mids at 1600 BC and the next GP in 7 turns so we are ready for city number 4. I teched math before alpha to get the powered chops out as well as a shot at the hanging gardens. Also the hamam is an excellent building for this map that is very low on and

So my vote would go to this build order. Solid, good wonders and 4 cities at 1450 BC or so all with a settled GP and then we can get the libraries out for extra GP's. Only thing I am low on right now are workers.

About the roster (playing order):
1) Yatta
2) Cree
3) Lktender
4) Pholkhereo
5) Killroyan (I put myself last since I have the most map knowledge)

 

[yatta77]

About the roster (playing order):
1) Yatta
2) Cree
3) Lktender
4) Pholkhereo
5) Killroyan (I put myself last since I have the most map knowledge)

Ah ok! We go the "pro" way this time!

So, I play first. Alright, opening to me, not what I prefer, however you said so, so it is at your own risk!

I'll play tonight until finishing the Mids. With stone and chops I'll try to manage to do that VERY quickly.

I'll post a detailed report as soon as I'm done, just wait few hours.

Thanks for testing. Cheers for now.
- yatta

 

[LKendter]

Mids? That is a bit far - how about just great wall (GG points!)

 

[Killroyan]

My thoughts were just to see how many wonders we could score. And I was able to score all of them at ease. In my test map from there I had 6-7 cities up in 0 AD and build the mids, TGW, Stonehenge, parthenon and the hanging gardens. Tech wise I had music and I was able to steal some techs from our advisaries by spying.

I think that is a good time to start a war against somebody but then again I am a bit too wonderholic and war might be better at this point. At least 1 defensive war if we can find a suitable choke point. Mids however in this game and representation are huge in this game. But I think you mean, LKtender, just go untill great wall and then discuss again. So if everybody agrees on the great wall turnset then Yatta play untill finishing the great wall and then lets discuss our second city based on your scouting.

 

[LKendter]

But I think you mean, LKtender, just go until great wall and then discuss again.

Exactly - you don't want to play to much at a time in an SG - kind of defeats the purpose.

Got the name wrong - LKendter

 

[Killroyan]

Oops sorry LKendter, my sincerest apologies. Will have it right from now on.

 

[CreeDakota]

Can someone confirm for me that IF we settle on the stone:

1) will it be an extra hammer capital?
2) Will working the forested tunda hill give us enough hammers to gain a bonus hammer from imperilistic trait?

If both of those are true I vote Settle on stone with settler first build. If those are both true how many turns for our first settler?

I agree settle scientist in Capital, save Great Spy for city number two. I really like the idea of getting city number two laid down ASAP.

 

[CreeDakota]

I vote for a short apprpoach to turn limits. The key to staying involved is not how long my turnset is but how often I get to take one.

 

[LKendter]

I don't think the stone is worth losing the second food source. Settler on stone and we have a permanent lame capitol.

 

[vranasm]

lurk:

yeah the stone would make you 2h capital, but you would move from strongest food tile and I don't think it is an option on boreal map.

 

[yatta77]

Aaaaargh... Sorry guys, seemed like nodoby (including myself) really wished to play the more boring opening and prefered play into the war phase, so that's why I completed the setup up to the Mids.

I'm sorry if this isn't welcome...

In case, we can restart on another similar map, and use this as a public test?

It is up to you, either continue from here, either restart. If restart, then I would prefer not replaying the opening.

Sorry again for the misunderstood, all what follows in the next post has been written before reading your posts.

- yatta

 

[yatta77]

Hi all,

Well, 72 turns on Epic to build GW and Mids.
I could have done better, the micro was far away from perfect.
I knew I wasn't the best option for the opening...
However, I hope that is not too bad.


SiP...

Mining >> Masonry >> BW, delayed Hunting, and was likely a bad call(?).

First worker... a loooong way on this map on Epic.

Got a scout.

Lot of food here!

Victoria... hello!

The G Spy exploring. First barbarians...

Willem! Hello!

Darius, ehm... hello.

A village! And a bear... too late the unit will die.

Hinduism gone, Buddhism later also (in Persepolis).

This is Persepolis (of Darius, Persia) few turns before founding Buddhism.

Chinese somewhere...

Yep! Mao, hello!

Here Beijin.

Turn 43. Great Walls done. Next the Mids.

Chinese food!

Weird map script... Deers everywhere!
This is something about we are close to Christmas?
Yeah, I know, I know, not deers at Christmas.
What the name of Santa vehicle animal in English?

Some other food.

Ah! Our Capital, of course.

Saladin! Hello!

Ok, 20 gold from the 57 we got from the city radius hut.
This is just to save the stone road.
Huts (IIRC): 57 gold, scout, scout, nothing else. So not too lucky I guess.

Barbarian Archers. This will be the sad end of ours WoodII scouts...

Food! There is food! Writing discovered.

Yep, OB to everybody. Cheers buddies!

Here Saladin cities. Yep, he founded Hinduism.

Last turn... And here Suryavarman. Hello!

Yep. Mids are in! The city is unhappy and undefended, however, they are in!
Next a Library(?). Well, the worker is on the Gem hill ready to build a mine and a road for happiness. Oh... we also have 23 hammers of overflow, in case you wish to put that in an unit, military or settler, instead of the Library.

And here our first revolution: Rep + Slavery. As always, please just make sure to don't slave people before having few hammers into the item you want to hurry!

Overview of our "Empire", in anarchy...

----

CreeDakota, I believe it is up to you next!

Save attached. Cheers all!


- yatta


---

EDIT (I forgot to mention in the above report):
- 4 turns to our first GP after getting out from the Anarchy
- OP also to Suryavarman, so we have OP with everybody.

EDIT II (direct link to the image gallery in case some SS are not visible):
http://imageshack.us/g/62/civ4screenshot0002r.jpg/

 

[yatta77]

Ehm... consider 72 on Epic = 36 turns on Normal IIRC.

 

[r_rolo1]

BTW, I just wanted to point out that ( as usual ) the GG points gained inside borders are not exactly as linear as it seems at first glance ...

Actually, I just tested it and there's a third factor I'd forgotten about - EVERY civ (Imperialistic or not) gets an intrinsic +100% Great General point bonus when fighting inside their territory. This bonus isn't really documented very well, so it's easy to forget about.

The full (corrected) table would be:

No Imp, No Great Wall, battle outside home territory => 1 XP gives 1 XP on GG bar
No Imp, No Great Wall, battle inside home territory => 1 XP gives 2 XP on GG bar (+100%)
No Imp, Great Wall, battle outside home territory => 1 XP gives 1 XP on GG bar
No Imp, Great Wall, battle inside home territory => 1 XP gives 3 XP on GG bar (+200%)
Imp, No Great Wall, battle outside home territory => 1 XP gives 2 XP on GG bar (+100%)
Imp, No Great Wall, battle inside home territory => 1 XP gives 3 XP on GG bar (+200%)
Imp, Great Wall, battle outside home territory => 1 XP gives 2 XP on GG bar (+100%)
Imp, Great Wall, battle inside home territory => 1 XP gives 4 XP on GG bar (+300%)

This is confirmed with in-game testing.

So, for every XP won inside borders , the team will get 4 GG points for the next GG compared with 2 GG point per XP outside

P.S

Ehm... consider 72 on Epic = 36 turns on Normal IIRC.

Actually it is 36 turns in Normal = 54 turns in epic ( the multiplier is 1.5 )

 

[yatta77]

So, for every XP won inside borders , the team will get 4 GG points for the next GG compared with 1 GG point per XP outside

Good to know! Thanks!
This makes combat inside the cultural borders even more valuable!

By the way, can you confirm that at parity of victory % attacking you get 2x EXP?

Actually it is 36 turns in Normal = 54 turns in epic ( the multiplier is 1.5 )

Thanks again. I kind of know which game aspects are regulated by multipliers and which ones are not, but I always have hard time remembering the numbers...

So my 72 turns on Epic equals (72/3*2)= 48 turns on normal.

Thanks again.

- yatta

 

[r_rolo1]

Yup, at a real 50:50 ( first strikes muddle the combat odds a lot ) victory, you gain 2 XP from attacking and half ( 1 XP ) , by defending.