MBAs and Graduate Schools

[Whomp]

I'm not familiar with CAIA.

CFA is chartered financial analyst and requires a sponsor to take the tests. You'd need to be in the financial industry to do it and you're goal should be to either manage money or be an analyst.

CFP is certified financial planner. This is geared towards a person who plans to offer advice. I wouldn't suggest this path unless you're starting at a bank since young people mostly fail (95% in my experience). They don't have contacts and older people don't trust them.

The mutual fund/separate account management industry has always been a good entry level job. There's firms all over the US that are top notch and could be an option depending on what city you choose.

I doubt you could get a hedge fund/private equity position yet since they'll typically want experience. Look at this company and what they look for...
Really intersesting company that does middle level mezzanine financing, buyouts, restructuring, recapitalizations etc...
http://jobs-americancapital.icims.com/americancapital_jobs/jobs/candidate/intro.jsp

EDIT: Actually this sounds reasonably good and it's in Philly.

Overview:
The Junior Portfolio Analyst is a member of FACT (Financial Analysis and Compliance Team) that evaluates perspective companies for investment and analyzes the current portfolio, blending accounting knowledge into a finance role

Responsibilities:
Assist in the monitoring and assessment of the investment's performance via MD&A style reporting and financial analysis
Quarterly, assist in the preparation of valuations in order to assess the investment's changing value and return
Coordinating administrative functions
Organizing team deliverables
Participating in special projects

Qualifications:
Bachelors Degree in Business Administration, prefer an Accounting or Finance degree
Strong organizational skills to be able to effectively manage multiple priorities and function in a collaborative work environment
Strong written and verbal communication skills
Outstanding work ethic

Most anyone I know that has started at GE Capital has moved on to a very nice position.
One more group where business is booming is a consulting firm like FTI Consulting (just look at the share price FCN). They're going to be quite busy with bankruptcies, sub prime issues, other class action work etc etc etc

 

[ShannonCT]

What would be the best work related experiences to get into an MBA program? The far majority of things I could get at this stage are financial advisor positions, pitching products and insurance and the like, heavily commission based (I'm not a fan of commissions, but I suppose I'll have to bite it here).

I don't think you have a chance of getting into a top MBA program with a financial advisor position. You would really be looking for a position where you can advance up the corporate ladder and be in position to manage people after a few years.

I could still inquire about Ameriprise, but, like all Financial Advisor roles, I've heard you're leaned on heavily to milk your "natural market" (which somehow assumes you have some fairly well off family in suburbia that just can't wait to buy your mutual funds and insurance plans). I don't have that...so I already start out behind.

I interviewed with Ameriprise when I moved to Connecticut for my wife's job. I passed the proficiency tests and a couple rounds of interviews but it was pretty clear that I had no natural market for pitching products, being new to the area and all. It seems like a tough business to start in right out of college when you don't really know many middle aged people who require financial planning services. If you went to work for 3M for five years and met a lot of people in the firm, you'd be in much better position to be a financial advisor.

 

[The Yankee]

Well, my two interviews are with AXA Advisors and MetLife, if that helps. I'm having a tough time finding out what it's like to actually work at these places (I've seen a bunch of bad rants about working for Ameriprise, but then again, the malcontents would be much more likely to write about it on the Internet).

Hopefully there will be a steady supply of incoming clients if that's the case....I'm not too sure how they get their workers to try to recruit more. I suppose I'll be finding out. Never liked approaching random people, yet I keep ending up having to do just that!

I'll make sure to ask about that kind of career growth during the interviews, since they do pique my interest a bit.

Edit: Crosspost. I think I see what you're saying about the programs. I'd definitely need to beef up my rice paper resume. I think I should have the academics down pat. Then I'd have to take the GMAT and/or anything else...and I feel reasonably confident I could do well.

As for the pitching products, yep, that's exactly where I'm worried. It was even in their survey the people at AXA asked me to do. Something along the lines with how many names could you provide that would require such services? Picked the fewer than ten option since it's basically zero. My folks are basically scrambling to get out of debt. Perhaps in a few years, I could try it, but I'd need it now, not in 2011. Plus the prospect of calling up my mother to get her to buy my wares feels a bit sleazy...

 

[Whomp]

I wouldn't do either firm. You will find it extremely difficult to succeed in that biz. My .02.

If you're going into advisory you'd be better off work on one of the huge Manhattan teams as an assistant at one of the big firms. UBS, Merrill, Smith Barney or Wachovia and you're learning curve would be enormous and I mean huge.

 

[The Yankee]

Just what I thought. Bleh. I keep getting emails about taking some kind of fantastic course off in Switzerland that deals with such banking, but I don't have the time nor the eight grand to do it (plus however much it'll cost to store my stuff, travel, get a new place, etc.).

I'm 22 and already behind!

But I'll make it happen, somewhere.

 

[Whomp]

Any firm that doesn't pay you as a trainee or make you pay for a series 7 is b.s. Working with family or some friends for biz is a really, really bad plan too.

They have no downside to hire you. Listen to my previous words. All of those financial service options should be considered...

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why are you even thinking about an MBA right out of undergrad? The most valuable thing about going to B-school is collaborating with people in different industries and making connections that can help you get a lucrative job offer when you finish. If you have no real work experience, you are going to get a lot less out of the program and aren't going to get well-connected. You really aren't maximizing the value of an MBA if you go right out of undergrad. And what kind of school would accept a candidate right out of undergrad? The ones where the degree isn't worth very much.

Stick with your plan of working for a few years first.

Excellent advice. I worked for 10 years before getting my MBA from UNC Chapel Hill. Real work expereince is invaluable to getting the most out of any good program.

Yeah I agree that the entire point of the MBA isn't learning, its networking. By all accounts its an easy degree in terms of the actual coursework, you just want to focus on networking and job opportunities.

Stupidest advice ever. There are lots of mediocre and poor MBA programs and their course work is of similar value and difficulty. I've met many graduates from such programs. Mostly they don't know crap, can't do sheet and couldn't think their way out of paper bag. They are the folks who got their MBA because they thought about like Fifty does. Apply to the best programs you can afford. Any top 20-25 school will probably have an excellent program.

Ingeneral MBA degrees are a steping stone into one of two arenas: traditional corporate America or into the small business/entrepreneurial marketplace. You should have an idea which path you want to take and shape your school selection and course work towards that end. When i was in school the course work was built around business cases and study groups. It was both challenging and interesting. I took the small business/entrepreneurial path and one of my companies ended up as a case in the curriculum.

What would be the best work related experiences to get into an MBA program? The far majority of things I could get at this stage are financial advisor positions, pitching products and insurance and the like, heavily commission based (I'm not a fan of commissions, but I suppose I'll have to bite it here).

If you are applying to a competitive program, then you need to stand out from the other applicants. Intersting work experience is the best way. If your competition all have 3 years as bankers and accountants, you don't want to have that background too. Go spend three years teaching English in Japan or China; I would bet that you would be high on the list of many US schools. Extended international experience would be a big plus. It doesn't have to be in business. Most good schools want a diverse class that blends all kinds of expereince. Crappy diploma mills take anyone they can get.

 

[ShannonCT]

Hopefully there will be a steady supply of incoming clients if that's the case....I'm not too sure how they get their workers to try to recruit more. I suppose I'll be finding out. Never liked approaching random people, yet I keep ending up having to do just that!

Two strategies I gleaned from my interviews at Ameriprise:

1) Set up a little fishbowl at a popular restaurant where people who drop their cards in the bowl are eligible to win a free dinner for themselves and several friends. The dinner becomes a chance for the agent to market financial services.

2) Set up an information booth at a high-traffic store every weekend. One place I remember them mentioning specifically was Costco. I think the target audience is middle-class families (as opposed to upper-class) who haven't thought much about financial planning.

Either of these sound appealing?

 

[ShannonCT]

If you are applying to a competitive program, then you need to stand out from the other applicants. Intersting work experience is the best way. If your competition all have 3 years as bankers and accountants, you don't want to have that background too. Go spend three years teaching English in Japan or China; I would bet that you would be high on the list of many US schools. Extended international experience would be a big plus. It doesn't have to be in business. Most good schools want a diverse class that blends all kinds of expereince. Crappy diploma mills take anyone they can get.

I'm a bit skeptical about this. B-schools aren't looking for teachers. They're looking for people who have interesting business experience. Yeah, you can't just go work for Citigroup as another cog in the machine and expect to get accepted to Kellogg after 3 years. But the top B-schools do want people who can converse with other people about typical business topics.

 

[The Yankee]

Nope, that's why I'm going to look elsewhere (I read the fishbowl tactic already). I'm not expecting a huge amount from these interviews, so I may as well learn from these experiences. They called and offered the interviews, so I don't have anything to lose by going. If I don't want it, I don't have to take it.

I will check out that link Whomp had. Also, when I do start searching in earnest very shortly, I'll be mining for something else. The job pages are full of financial adviser ads...that can't bode well.

As for being interesting...that I'm not, but I'll find a way to make something that would work. I'm penalized by taking care of my father and wasting so much time in commuting, but heck, people can manage.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm a bit skeptical about this. B-schools aren't looking for teachers. They're looking for people who have interesting business experience. Yeah, you can't just go work for Citigroup as another cog in the machine and expect to get accepted to Kellogg after 3 years. But the top B-schools do want people who can converse with other people about typical business topics.

My past and ongoing expereince with MBA programs and graduates tells me that schools with good programs do not want classes of clones. They want smart people who meet some minimum requirements and who will contribute to their program and the overall experience of the other students. I was addressing the question of how to differentiate oneself from so many others who will have the typical MBA applicant background: banking, accounting and sales. to get looked at by the best schools you need to give them a reason to look at your application twice. Several years of international experience might do that. My mention of teaching was because it is relatively easy to get such jobs. On a side note, teaching actually builds skills that are sorely needed by MBAs and corporate leaders. The ability to communicate effectively and pursuasively (like teachers have to do every day) is missing from much corporate America.

 

[The Yankee]

I'm not familiar with CAIA.

Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst

Alternative investments are often defined not by what they are, but by what they are not. That is, an alternative investment is a position in something other than a long position in either equity or debt. Generally speaking, the alternative investment markets encompass hedge funds, venture capital and private equity, real estate, and managed futures. Alternative investment securities include positions that define investment strategies within these broad groupings.

As defined, alternative assets are a subset of existing asset classes. For example, a hedge fund may be organized as a private company that takes both long and short positions in equity securities, seeking to expand the investment opportunity set available to long-only equity managers. These opportunities include capital appreciation, hedging, and diversification, among others.

Other distinguishing characteristics of alternative investments are the regulations that surround the positions that comprise these strategies, and the way that the gains and losses of these positions are taxed.

That doesn't sound terribly descriptive, but I suppose people would have their niches.

Edit: When I search, I'm probably doing it wrong. I keep running into that Catch-22 of "to gain some valuable experience here, you must have experience." Usually to the tune of 3 or more years in the field.

 

[Dida]

I wouldn't do either firm. You will find it extremely difficult to succeed in that biz. My .02.

If you're going into advisory you'd be better off work on one of the huge Manhattan teams as an assistant at one of the big firms. UBS, Merrill, Smith Barney or Wachovia and you're learning curve would be enormous and I mean huge.

I worked at Goldman Sachs M&A group for 3 years before enrolling at Univ. of Chicago Biz school. At the time I applied to their joint JD/MBA program, so maybe I was accept to their JD program, and that helped my MBA application or vice versa. But I think for all school admission purposes, they care much less about what you actually did at the firm, and a lot more about which firm you worked for. Definitely go for the bigger name, rather than bigger paycheck or whatever if your ultimate goal is to go to school.

 

[Fifty]

Stupidest advice ever. There are lots of mediocre and poor MBA programs and their course work is of similar value and difficulty. I've met many graduates from such programs. Mostly they don't know crap, can't do sheet and couldn't think their way out of paper bag. They are the folks who got their MBA because they thought about like Fifty does. Apply to the best programs you can afford. Any top 20-25 school will probably have an excellent program.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should definitely attend the best school you can, but mainly just because doing so allows the best job and networking opportunities, not because the actual quality of the education is higher. Of course, this is all anecdotal, but of the several people I know either first or second hand who went and got MBAs, some of them from really top flight schools, they all said the actual coursework was almost a joke when compared to that of other major graduate degrees.

 

[LuckyAC]

I've thought about a JD/MBA, but I don't have the work experience to get into any of the MBA programs right now at my law schools (Chicago, Michigan etc.) I've heard that if you apply in your first year of law school, the fact that you are already in the LS can give you a bit of a boost, but I can't really pin down any concrete information on that.

And BirdJaguar, I don't see how what Fifty is saying would imply you shouldn't go to the best school - it seems like the opposite, in fact. If all you are looking for is the name and the network, the rank of the school would be all that mattered, while if you could actually learn something, going to a no-name school might still be worth it..

BTW, I wouldn't put much stock in the Princeton Review BSchool rankings. I don't know much about business schools, but I do know that Princeton Review's rankings are lousy in general (the law school ones are pretty much meaningless)

 

[Mise]

I don't suppose anyone could offer MBA advice from a UK perspective? Why should I get one? What happens if I don't? (i.e. will doors be closed to me because I don't have one? Which ones?)

Not even sure if I'm asking the right questions...

 

[really]

Sadly, it seems much of what I turn up in the Twin Cities area is for an accountant.

Don't discount accounting. A few years in restructuring will expose you to the sharp end of business where companies are failing or are in trouble.

This would be valuable experience to an investment banker / in private equity.

You will also be managing people very quickly.

Just be careful not to stay too long: after a certain point you are locking yourself in by having very specific skills and having to give up a good salary to move.

 

[really]

I don't suppose anyone could offer MBA advice from a UK perspective? Why should I get one? What happens if I don't? (i.e. will doors be closed to me because I don't have one? Which ones?)

Not even sure if I'm asking the right questions...

What are you doing now? What do you want to do?

 

[Fifty]

I don't suppose anyone could offer MBA advice from a UK perspective? Why should I get one? What happens if I don't? (i.e. will doors be closed to me because I don't have one? Which ones?)

Not even sure if I'm asking the right questions...

You're a physics dude right?? You should do financial engineering! They make big bucks and the programs love physics people, cuz they are way better at it than economists. (economists use math to muddle things, physicists use math to make things clearer)

 

[Mise]

What are you doing now? What do you want to do?

I'm a Pricing Analyst atm, and I'm not sure what I want to do. Most (all?) of the people I admire have MBAs, and most (all!) of the people I don't want to end up like don't have MBAs, so I figure MBAs are probably a good thing...

You're a physics dude right?? You should do financial engineering! They make big bucks and the programs love physics people, cuz they are way better at it than economists. (economists use math to muddle things, physicists use math to make things clearer)

1. Those types of things are fiercly competitive... I'd say about 75% of the people in my year wanted to do something along those lines. I'd never get past the interview (I get nervous).

2. From what I've heard, it's bloody hard work! They really do earn those big bucks... I think I'm too lazy for that