A leader of 25 guys.
Meanwhile in Libya...
- Thread starter emzie
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NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
So do Bosnians
Verbose
Deity
Thanks. I tend to think that on one level it might actually be as easy as too many Libyans ending up being heartily sick and tired of Ghaddafi personally, and that weird autocratic regime (Green Book etc.) he has created.
Except it's anything but simple once the rebellion gets off the ground. Suddenly everything is in jeopardy, and the outcome unpredictable as hell, for everyone. No way of knowing in advance, except of course if Libya just remains lodged in Ghaddafi's icebox, nothing will happen, nothing will change, and nothing will improve either.
The entire Mid East suffers from economic and social problems, and on top of that a bunch of overripe autocratic systems which so far are tainted by having let their various parts of the region get left behind by the rest of the world developing (east and south east Asia in particular).
While how to fix the more fundamental social and economic challenges is none to clear, what seems clear to increasing numbers of Mid Easterners is that the current regimes need to go before stuff can be improved. And removing a dictator can happen relatively quickly. Avoiding getting a new one soon can be harder. And if really unlucky, one can get a fighting nutter like Ghaddafi, who apparently doesn't give a rat's ass if he pulls all of Libya down with himself. No way of knowing for sure what will happen until it's tried though...
You can't be serious... Leader of rebels... All of them.
Where does it say he is the only leader of ALL the rebels?
That is written in text. I would say he is one of the leaders, not only one, but big picture is this man agenda. If NATO arm people who plan is making country ruled by sharia law then I really don't understand what they think they are doing.
You are mistaken this is the leader rebel
Argh, no its Khalifa Hifter
Do you get my point?
Let's have a look at the Nationalt Transition Council
Other source
Mustafa Abdul Jalil - Chairman of the Council
Abdul Hafiz Ghoga - Deputy Chairman of the Council and Spokesman
Othman Suleiman El-Megyrahi - Batnan Area
Ashour Hamed Bourashed - Darna City
Abdelallah Moussa El-myehoub - Qouba Area
Ahmed Abduraba Al-Abaar - Benghazi City
Fathi Mohamed Baja - Benghazi City
Abdelhafed Abdelkader Ghoga - Benghazi City
Zubiar Ahmed El-Sharif - Representative of Political Prisoners
Fathi Tirbil and Dr. Salwa Fawzi El-Deghali - Representative of Youth and Women
Hmmm... Where is your Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi in that?
I quoted Telegraph, they claims. After read your post guess nobody really knows who is leader in rebel forces. Situation is confusing. I am sure NATO is trying to put in front someone they can control, also Al Qaeda (or Al Qaeda like) will highly unlikely accept that. This is not political situation, willingly or not opposition will use people who have war experience to fight Libya army and there Al Qaeda will take the lead. If they succeed in their efforts military element will not retreat after all is done and will do anything to seize power for themselves and make country new pre-occupation Afghanistan. Their weapon will not stop talking and imagine what life will people of Libya have in country like that. But time will show how situation will be developing.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Oh, so now it's about "removing a dictator"? I though it was about "avoiding genocide", or "protecting innocent civilians" or whatever. I mean, he had harrowing accounts of "genocide" being carried out by government troops against rebel cities:
Oh, wait, that was Fallujah, Iraq, and the government was the US government, the troops US soldiers.
But I'm sure they, and the french, and the british, now have only the best interests of the civilians in their hearts as they proceed with their humanitarian bombing of Libya. I mean, Obama has a Nobel Peace Prize, surely that makes all the difference!
So, when is the US going to hand over a few generals and former president Bust to the ICC for trial?
Verbose
Deity
Apples and pears. For those people in Libya who rebelled it's kind of obviously about removing Ghaddafi. Whatever the hell everyone else is doing might vary.
Who knows? Who cares?
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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People rebel all the time against governments, that doesn't automatically mean other govements should get involved.
Yes, why should you care about the record of these who got involved in Libya? The complete symmetry of the situation - armed insurrection against a government, a couple of... mercenaries working for said government strung up by the population, massive retaliation meant to kill rebels and impress surviving civilians into submission - can be blithely ignored.
Apples and pears indeed. Which of the fruit du jour gets a free pass at killing civilians and which gets bombed for it? Who knows? Recent experience in killing rebellious civilians must be a plus for this "humanitarian" UN coalition! I'm sure that the people of those villages being fought over and over again are already most grateful for this intervention so far.
Yes, why should you care about the record of these who got involved in Libya? The complete symmetry of the situation - armed insurrection against a government, a couple of... mercenaries working for said government strung up by the population, massive retaliation meant to kill rebels and impress surviving civilians into submission - can be blithely ignored.
Apples and pears indeed. Which of the fruit du jour gets a free pass at killing civilians and which gets bombed for it? Who knows? Recent experience in killing rebellious civilians must be a plus for this "humanitarian" UN coalition! I'm sure that the people of those villages being fought over and over again are already most grateful for this intervention so far.
Verbose
Deity
Well, will they blame the UN led coalition of Ghaddafi for it?
onedreamer
Dragon
Just a little FYI. During Fascism in Italy the living standards have improved. The same projects you listed were undertaken and unemployment and especially analphabetism were strongly undermined. The road that goes through all coast of Libya was built thanks to Fascists. The same can be said about National Socialist Germany. This is what you will hear from most promoters of Fascism. When you judge something you MUST weight the goods and the bads. It is too easy to list what good things happened in Libya omitting the bad ones. If there were only negatives about Gheddafi, there wouldn't be a civil war and people would have rebelled way earlier.
Along the road built by Fascists you could find who knows how many corpses of Libyan workers.
Says who? The man without a name? The ONU says the exact contrary, and it has more influence than you do.
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
"People should give a little liberty to gain security" (be it economic, political or military)
Verbose
Deity
Or maybe "Generally speaking, some people should kiss the idea of substantially greater personal freedoms goodbye if its aquisition needs to overcome the opposition of a thughish, violence prone dictator"?
To my thinking, that would seem to be the gambit for the Libyans.
To my thinking, that would seem to be the gambit for the Libyans.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
That quote, I remember it from CIV IV, tnx for the full quote
The quote makes a point directly opposed to the point you wanted to make.
The quote also sucks, but whatever.
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
ohhh, didn't read the last part *facepalm*
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