[NFP] Medieval Era Policy Elimination Thread

[kaspergm]

Chivalry (11) (14-3) - cavalry units generally see less use than melee and ranged units in my games, and as argued below, by the time I hit medieval era and certainly after that, I'm much more likely to upgrade earlier units or buy new ones with faith than producing them. I'm not saying this is a bad card, I use it occasionally if rarely (my recent Genghis Kahn game saw some use of it), but for my playstyle this is more niche than something like Feudal Contract or Retainers.
Craftsmen (17)
Feudal Contract (5)
Gothic Atchitecture (17)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (21)
Professional Army (29)
Retainers (2) (1+1) - EDIT - As pointed out below, I confused this with Retinues, but I actually still want to keep this alive, because as a peaceful player I use this policy a lot when I have spare red card slots, which is often, particularly when running Theocracy.
Retinues (22)
Serfdom (34)

 

[CrabHelmet]

Chivalry (11)
Craftsmen (17)
Feudal Contract (2) [5-3]
Gothic Atchitecture (17) [18+1]
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (21)
Professional Army (29)
Retainers (2)
Retinues (22)
Serfdom (34)

I'm very rarely building that many units come Feudal Contract, I'm upgrading them. If I've left it as late as Feudal Contracts to build a sizeable army, I'm not doing a very good Domination; if I'm not doing Domination, I won't get enough value of out Feudal Contract.

EDIT: Hmm, I've just noticed that @kaspergm and I have a name confusion, I think. I upvoted Retainers thinking it was the policy that reduces the upgrade resource cost, as did he, but that's actually Retinues, which is very much alive. I will change my upvote to Gothic Architecture, which I think definitely has use if there's a very specific Wonder you need to contest. I don't think anyone has voted after me yet so shouldn't affect this.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Chivalry (11)
Craftsmen (17)
Feudal Contract (2)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (18)
Professional Army (29)
Retainers (2)
Retinues (22)
Serfdom (34)

This is getting hard now, these are all good cards in the right situation!

Naval Infrastructure (21-3=18) - probably the most situational of the cards left.

Gothic Architecture (17+1=18) - if you have finished warring (as I often am at this stage) and there are some Wonders left over this can be a nice boost to crank them out as you transition to a peaceful builder phase.

 

[Leucarum]

Chivalry (8)
Craftsmen (17)
Feudal Contract (2)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (18)
Professional Army (29)
Retainers (2)
Retinues (22)
Serfdom (34)

Downvoting chivalry (11-3) for the same reason I downvoted feudal contract earlier. Hard building units by this point is best avoided, upgrading or buying with cash/faith definitely is the way to go. I'll throw a second upvote at Serfdom (33+1) though. Serfdom is a game-defining policy card. You'll slot it and your empire will never be the same again as the improvements flow.

 

[bengalryan9]

Chivalry (8)
Craftsmen (17)
Feudal Contract (eliminated) (2-3) I think it's the weakest left, for all the reasons spelled out in previous posters' downvotes.
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (18)
Professional Army (29)
Retainers (2)
Retinues (23) (22+1) In the grand scheme of things, Professional Army is mostly just a convenience. Retinues, however, can be an absolute must when you get unlucky with strategic resources.
Serfdom (34)

 

[Vargas1]

Chivalry (8)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (15) (18-3)
Professional Army (30) (29+1)
Retainers (2)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (34)

Professional Army (30) - Unlocking this card can singlehandedly swing you from holding on defensively with archers and warriors to readying an all-out assault with promoted crossbowmen and swordsmen. Stays useful until it's obsoleted by its replacement card.

Naval Infrastructure (15) - I love playing coastal games and I love building harbors. But until you get shipyards in it's hard to justify slotting in this card for a touch of extra gold, when most of my gold is coming from trade routes, tiles, and/or merchant confederation. Even with shipyards, it's not uncommon for me to have most of my harbors a +2 or maybe +3 adjacency, which is often not worth slotting this card. I usually end up waiting for Economic Union. The exception is if I have a bunch of harbors down early enough to make use of a Free Inquiry Golden Age, but that's only in a handful of games (usually with England or Phoenicia).

 

[Equilin]

Chivalry (5) (8-3) Can anyone enlighten me why this is not gone before Feudal Contract? Both have similar problems, this one has worse civic requirements (it's off the regular path), and there are less hard-build horse UU than hard-build melee UU, where these policies would have seen uses.
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (15)
Professional Army (30)
Retainers (3) (2+1) If you have spare units, use spare units. If you don't and need the amenities, grab scouts and you get a free amenities per city.
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (34)

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Chivalry (6) (5+1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (12) (15-3)
Professional Army (30)
Retainers (3)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (34)

Chivalry (6) (5+1) Gosh, Feudal Contract and Chivalry both plummeted rapidly since I last checked.

Everyone seems to be dealing in abstract ideals: 'you ought to have built your units already....', 'you ought to purchase them with faith/gold...'. Well, what if, for whatever reason, you didn't manage to build units already, or you can't purchase them? Maybe because you were focussing on wonders or infrastructure early on? Maybe you did build units, but you lost them to barbs or an aggressive AI? Maybe you need more units, in order to defend yourself or invade an AI who is rapidly snowballing out of control? In all of these situations, Feudal Contracts and Chivalry are both extremely useful and, in some situations, are lifesavers.

Plus, a lot of unique units have to be hard-built around this time: Varu, Beserker, Samurai, Crouching Tiger, Khevsur, Winged Hussar, Malon Raider, Rough Rider. Good luck building any of these in a reasonable amount of time without Feudal Contract or Chivalry plugged in.

Finally, my go–to strategy for dealing with a snowballing AI is to beeline Cuirassiers and invade them as soon as possible. Chivalry lets you prebuild the Knights required for this, or half the hard-building time.

Naval Infrastructure (12) (15-3) As much as I am a fan of Harbours, this is 100% the most situational card remaining. I don't even unlock Naval Tradition in most of my games.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Chivalry (6)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (12)
Professional Army (30)
Retainers (0) (3-3) (Eliminated)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (35) (34+1)

Retainers: I just never seem to have a use for this particular Card. Ah, well. Compared to the other Policy Cards, IMO, this is the worst left.

Serfdom: Slav-More Builder Charges always helps, saves you Production for not having to build too many Builders, and is always relevant until Public Works, just a better Serfdom.

 

[MrRadar]

Chivalry (3) (6-3)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (18)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (13) (12+1)
Professional Army (30)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (35)

Chivalry (3) (6-3) It just is not very often that you find yourself in real need of this card. If you had to be aggressive, you already have enough cavalry. If you have to bang out your main cavalry force using this card, something probably went wrong in planning or anticipation. Medieval units will likely start to go obsolete before you have enough of them if relying solely on this card.

Naval Infrastructure (13) (12+1) I like continents and islands maps, so coastal cities are not rare for me. And it is not too difficult to find a few +4 harbour spots, so the bonus of this card can really be felt. Naval Infrastructure becomes very attractive with shipyards, but even before that increased gold income is very nice, and if you couple it with Golden Medieval Free Inquiry, that can be your Great Leap Forward in science

 

[JhGf_123]

Chivalry (4) (3+1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (15)(18-3)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (13)
Professional Army (30)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (35)

Chivalry: I broadly agree with what @Drivingrevilo said. In some situations, you dont have the ideal set-up, especially for players (like me) who find Deity a genuine challenge. In these situations, it is a blessing to have a card that gives you +50% production to some of the strongest and fastest mid-game units.
And what happened to the obsession with pillaging? I was under the impression that everyone on this site thought pillaging was the strongest tactic in the game. Well guess what, you need cavalry to pillage.

Gothic Architecture (15)(18-3) I like this card, but it should go soon. It's useful for speeding up Kilwa, Oxford or Forbidden City, but if I don't have space for it I'm not distraught.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Chivalry (1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (15)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (13)
Professional Army (30)
Retinues (23)
Serfdom (35)

Chivalry 1 (4-3): Limited window of opportunity, and limited use. Unless you're going domination you're not going to be building many heavy cav units, and even then the single most important unit type is siege units. The AI loves to spam city walls and encampments everywhere, and cavalry are useless against them. If this were +50% production to catapults, bombards, artillery, bombers and battleships - the units you actually need to conquer cities - then I would vote it to the heavens. But it's not.

Naval Infrastructure 14 (13+1): It's almost impossible to not have a +3 harbour. +4 requires the most micro of micromanagement. Lots of gold, boost to shipyards, and if you get a Free Enquiry GA, huge boost to science.

 

[Francel]

Chivalry (1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (15)
Merchant Confederation (31)
Naval Infrastructure (14) (13+1) - Agree with @Mount Suribachi above. Harbor is one of those districts I like to get as often as possible (along with holy sites). Harbors (like holy sites) can do a lot for you. They give you food, housing, gold, trade routes, ship experience, great person points, and more as they are developed. High adjacency of +3 or more is usually achievable. The golden age policy makes them even stronger, if the stars align in your favor.
Professional Army (30)
Retinues (20) (23-3) - I haven't followed this elimination game especially closely. The last one (and the early departure of audience chamber) was mildly traumatic for me, but thank goodness I'm over it. The dermatologist assures me my audience chamber heart tattoo can be (mostly) ablated with enough laser exposure. Looking at what's left in this thread, retinues jumps out to me as the "WTH" policy. The only reason I didn't downvote it first is that it was the one policy I couldn't remember what it does. I don't think I have ever used this, even after playing more than 1000 hours. Correct me if I am wrong, but a unit which requires strategic resources does not require any additional strategic resources of the same type when upgraded. Thus horseman to courser requires 0. I could see that it would help with upgrading heavy chariot to knight, but people argued (accurately, imo) they tend not to build many heavy chariots. Maybe warriors to legions? Catapults to bombards? I either have strategic resources or I don't (I almost always have the ones that come before the later stages of the game). If I do, lower upgrade resource cost won't make much difference. They accumulate quickly enough relative to my army size. If I don't, a discount won't much help. I am struggling to envision this card ever being especially helpful.
Serfdom (35)

 

[hhhhhh]

Chivalry (1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (15)
Merchant Confederation (28) (31-3) People like this probably because other diplomatic policies are bad. You don't get much gold from this tbh.
Naval Infrastructure (14)
Professional Army (30)
Retinues (21) (20+1) If you are warmongering then timing is very important and when niter comes out a lots of units need that so this card is useful.
Serfdom (35)

 

[Josephias]

Chivalry (1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (15)
Merchant Confederation (28)
Naval Infrastructure (14)
Professional Army (31)
Retinues (18)
Serfdom (35)

Retinues (21-3=18)
Professional Army (30+1=31)
Focusing in the two upgrade cards today. We reach a point where there is no "bad" card to downvote, but we need to focus in the frequency of use and the worth of keeping them slotted. Both Retinues and Professional army do not qualify for the second, but obviously they are cards worth slotting for immediate benefit. Indeed, provided you have two or more red slots available, the logic is to use them as a combo.
That said, and following @Francel reasoning above, you will not always need resources to upgrade. It is correct updates from a unit that uses a resource to another that use the same resource (e.g. horseman-courser) are resource-free, and you have as well resorce-free lines as archer-crossbowman and spearman-pikeman. Also, as said as well, you may usually either plenty or no resources, and the discount will not be of help if you have 0 of a resource.
There is situational cases were I found Retinues useful (mainly upgrading catapults to bombards with few saltpeter sources, or runing out of the iron stockpile if needing to massively upgrade knights), but as commented, they are situational, and normally gold has been the main constraint that prevents upgrading many units. Thus, Professional Army feels more relevant than Retinues and could be used isolately, while the opposite does not seem very frequent.

 

[TCBB]

Chivalry (1)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (12) (15-3)
Merchant Confederation (29) (28+1)
Naval Infrastructure (14)
Professional Army (31)
Retinues (18)
Serfdom (35)

Gothic Architecture (12) (15-3) I think Naval Infrastructure is by far the weakest, but to avoid a repeat vote it’s Gothic Architecture. Some great wonders fall under this timeframe, but they’re also some of the least competitive wonders in the game (at least as far as Kilwa and Forbidden are concerned: if you want them, you will be able to build them).

Merchant Confederation (29) (28+1) One of the most reliable sources of gold in the game. Rewards you simply for doing the city-state mini game

Also re: Retinues;

Catapults to bombards?

catapults to bombards with few saltpeter

I think you’re both focussing on the wrong unit class. It’s mainly Warriors —> Swordsmen, and Swordsmen —> Musketmen. If you want to rush a Civ, then these units are crucial, and without Retinues you have to wait for ages to accumulate the resources (especially if you get unlucky and only spawn with one copy).

That said, I think it’s coming towards the end of its lifespan.

 

[enKage]

Chivalry (2)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (9)
Merchant Confederation (29)
Naval Infrastructure (14)
Professional Army (31)
Retinues (18)
Serfdom (35)

Gothic Architecture -3
1) on the civicpath that can be avoided in most victory condition
2) Kilwa / Forbidden City / Potala - all of them are not Mids, you want it, you get it
3) Sloting in easthetics instead with 1 EC with theatres around will bring you to +15% to ALL wonders faster

Chivalry +1
While ancient / classical era is for building melee / range for fityre upgrades, medieval is for building cavalry units.

 

[canadamufc]

Chivalry (2)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (9)
Merchant Confederation (29)
Naval Infrastructure (11) (14-3) Yes, it can power up shipyards, however that value (the reason this card is good) comes late into the game. No other card has this flaw. Naval Infrastructure relies on too many other factors (shipyards, free inquiry, water heavy map) to contend with other cards that can be used in any game.
Professional Army (31)
Retinues (19) (18+1) I completely agree with @TCBB. For some units you don't need resources to upgrade, but the most important units for succeeding in an invasion do. Spearmen and Pikemen are absolutely useless, so despite them not taking resources, there is no point to build them in the first place. Also, and when you're doing a domination game, you don't want to waste time. This card is helpful to mass upgrade units. If you have a stockpile maximum of 50 iron, and you have 50 iron, you can upgrade five warriors into swordsman at once instead of only two.

Timing pushes also exist. If you only have 1 source of a resource coming in then the war will have to be delayed so you can upgrade your units. With Retinues, this (upgrading) can be done better, faster, and more efficiently.
Serfdom (35)

 

[greenOak]

Chivalry (2)
Craftsmen (17)
Gothic Architecture (9)
Merchant Confederation (29)
Naval Infrastructure (8) (11-3)
Professional Army (31)
Retinues (19)
Serfdom (36) (35+1)

Serfdom (+1) - Boring upvote, but its far and away the best policy on this list. I would even say it is the single best policy card in the game. It basically gives double the effect of pyramids which was voted as the best wonder in the game. It makes me race straight for feudalism while ignoring natural history which gives access to what was voted the best classical era card. It is the reason why feudalism by turn X is so commonly used as a benchmark by players looking to improve. It is the reason why even after political philosophy is teched culture remains more important than science. I cannot overstate just how good this card is.

Naval Infastructure (-3) - A decent card but has a few things working against it. Gold isn't the strongest yield. You need quite a few harbors to make this thing useful and often you just don't have the land for it. It has great synergy with golden age free inquiry, but monumentality is just so strong. Even with a high gold / low faith economy I think monumentality is often the superior choice.

 

[canadamufc]

Naval Infrastructure should be on 8 I believe.