Merchants of Death

[Arakhor]

Probably by the most destructive single person to have lived, Thomas Midgely Jr.

 

[Berzerker]

you're right, 5th most on the list... 1st per capita, more than a 1/3 of the state

Violent crime is a bad thing. Violence against women is a bad thing. Ecstasy and date rape drugs are bad things.
Going after bin Laden was a good thing.
Your baying at the moon won't change this.

Yes, during his decades of service, he's made mistakes. Who hasn't?
Name one Washington politician who has a better record.
There's only one member of Congress who has less wealth, so you know he's not taking bribes.

BTW: Remember, this thread opened with you trying to blame Biden--and only Biden--for the DuPont poisoning. Do you have a scintilla of proof?

I didn't blame Biden, I wanted his opinion about his friends at Dupont. Going after Bin Laden was a good thing, invading Afghanistan, not good. Better yet, dont leave armies on Muslim holy lands... I cant speak to ecstasy but the mass incarceration of millions of people didn't result from combating a date rape drug.

Given the wide spread usage of Teflon and its profits, it should have been tested before wide spread industrial use. The company should be investigated, fined and whomever covered it up gaoled.

I dont know what gaoled (jailed?) means but lengthy prison terms seems in order. We're not going to significantly reduce corporate polluters with fines.

I'd be happy to discuss PFOA and Teflon, as it's an interesting subject. But you seem more interested in discussing Joe Biden, who isn't mentioned in the article you link a single time.

Then discuss PFOA and Teflon... I'm interested in the swamp that allows this to happen. I read the article and became angry, mentioning Biden was an after thought since he is synonymous with the corporate state of Delaware.

Personally, Joe Biden seems far preferable to Sam Brownback to me. Reducing use of the drugs you mentioned in post #9 sounds good

Can you find anyone preferable to both Biden and Brownback? I sure can... His legislation wasn't limited to a date rape drug and ecstasy. If someone commits rape, punish the rapist, not a million people for drugs.

(and as Vice President during the Obama administration, he was involved in prison reform efforts that unfortunately did not gain sufficient support in Congress)

Even with Democrats in control of Congress and the White House? What did he do as a member of Congress? He wrote laws giving us the mass incarceration of people.

supporting the war in Afghanistan sounds good; not so much in Iraq but almost everyone did in 2003

You're not an Afghan, lets ask them... and almost everyone did not support invading Iraq. The majority of congressional Democrats opposed the war. Hmm, I just said something good about Democrats.

and expecting him to single-handedly solving the PFOA issue would be as unrealistic as expecting Donald Trump to make coal great again.

Can we ask for his opinion about Dupont's evil? I expect him to act on our behalf since he's a champion of the people. But this has been ongoing for decades and he's been AWOL. No, some lawyer had to tackle Dupont while politicians ignored the problem...

Biden is a Democrat. 'nuff said.

Ding! Correct!

Wouldn't matter to me if Biden was a Republican... but it would to you. Criticizing Republicans, good; criticizing Democrats, bad. Projecting your hypocrisy, funny.

Case and point... feeling the sting of being called out for carrying water for the Republicans... you started an obligatory thread about 2 weeks back, levying accurate and well deserved criticism on the Trump administration, and cited/linked an article that actually supported the point that you were making.

So when I start threads criticizing the Republicans its 'obligatory'? Hmm... What obliges me to do that? A sense of fairness? Pursuit of justice? You're accusing me of hypocrisy for criticizing both parties when you dont even criticize your own.

In the raving Trump thread you said this about my alleged hypocrisy:

"When? Where? Still waiting for that... allegedly you do it (according to you at least) but I haven't seen it in quite a while. So let's hear it.

and my response:

From the last few pages:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-grand-old-party.629671/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/and-jesus-weeps.627331/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/youre-fired.622755/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/correcting-students.631102/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/shut-up-and-sing.630863/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/yosemite-sam-takes-over-at-the-nsa.630588/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-swamp-is-overflowing.632234/

How many threads did I start criticizing the Democrats?

and you ran away from your accusation only to repeat it here... So, how many did I start criticizing the Democrats?

But the thread got very few responses over the last weak and a half... because as I've said before... when you make a half-hearted attempt to go after Republicans, the conservative leaning folks here are not taking the bait, because they know you don't really mean it and will abandon the effort shortly. So all you get is liberal leaning folks agreeing with you, which bores you. So you then quickly return in earnest to what you really want to do, which is fight liberals and carry water for the Republicans... and here we are.

The Projection of your hypocrisy onto others is quite visible even without my glasses. Aren't you carrying water for Democrats? I mean, Biden was one of the main authors of the most racist policy since the end of Jim Crow and you're mad at me for criticizing him. I thought you hated racism... Maybe thats just half hearted, racism by Republicans, bad, racism from Democrats, meh...

I criticize both parties... Maybe the reason Republicans here dont defend the sins of their party is because they recognize them as sins. When I accused Reagan of stealing our weapons and selling them to Iranian terrorists, Republicans didn't jump in to defend him because that was indefensible. Now what water carrier for Republicans would accuse the Republican God of selling terrorists weapons stolen from us?

 

[Lexicus]

To all those who think going after bin Laden was a good thing: why do you support extrajudicial executions?

 

[Berzerker]

It could be argued congressional approval for the 'war on terror' makes targeting Bin Laden a 'judicial' killing akin to the killing of enemy soldiers in wartime. But I dont know how far we could run with that argument, drone strikes on 'terrorists' becomes ambiguous when the targets aint really terrorists and we're killing more innocent people than enemies. But we did firebomb Dresden eg, wars make such matters really messy.

 

[Lexicus]

That's nonsense, we abducted bin Laden from the territory of a sovereign nation and murdered him for revenge. It was utterly barbaric.

 

[Berzerker]

I thought he was killed in the raid, I'd agree if we had abducted him and then executed him but he wasn't coming peacefully... Now maybe we had no intention of 'arresting' him but Afghanistan was sovereign too and we didn't let that stop us. Had we just located him there and dropped a bomb on him I'd think that would still be considered a judicial killing. The war on terror was written 'liberally' to allow for the hunting of terrorists beyond Afghanistan.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well, they're a massive multinational which means they have only profit as a motive. We go back to the late 80s and they saved the ozone, we go back to the early 80s and they're resisting saving the ozone, we go back to the 20s and they're unknowingly destroying the ozone by developing CFCs as a safe alternative to the people they're killing with toxic refrigerants...

Well yeah... but I'm more focused on/confused by

its Joe Biden's fault, somehow...

Any guesses on that?

Probably by the most destructive single person to have lived, Thomas Midgely Jr.

Bit of interesting trivia from that page:

In 1940, at the age of 51, Midgley contracted poliomyelitis, which left him severely disabled. This led him to devise an elaborate system of strings and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. This was the eventual cause of his own death when he was entangled in the ropes of this device and died of strangulation at the age of 55

 

[Arakhor]

As Bill Bryson said, he had an unerring ability to make tragic mistakes.

 

[Farm Boy]

Any guesses on that?

Why not? Makes about as much sense as most of the politically oriented BS I read these days. Am I angry at Du Pont in this moment, am I angry at something specific they did, am I angry about lobbying laws, am I angry at a party, or am I angry at Biden, or something in particular that Biden did? Need to orient, right? It's not like I'm likely to have an opportunity to vote for or against the man for office, near as I can tell.

I was more interested in the hat, really. LibertyLink and stuff is more my speed.

 

[Sommerswerd]

you're right, 5th most on the list... 1st per capita, more than a 1/3 of the state

Wait... I thought being "3rd on the list" was like some huge big deal worthy of condemnation... but apparently nope... So not only are you handwaving #1 and #2 to get at Delaware, but now you're also now handwaving #3 and #4. If it was such a big deal to condemn the #3 polluter on the list when you erroneously thought it was Delaware... how come all of a sudden #3 gets a pass? I'll tell you why... Because it was never about who pollutes the most... it was always about you coming up with some pretense to go after Joe Biden... and that has been laid bare by how you're handling being wrong about who really tops the list.

And on that note... what's actually more amusing, is how you follow the predictable pattern of saying "X does it the most!" and when its pointed out that you're wrong... the comically predictable follow-up is... "B-b-but per capita! The most per capita!" You follow this same pattern in other contexts and it never gets old.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I didn't blame Biden, I wanted his opinion about his friends at Dupont.

You want Joe Biden's opinion so you ask him on CFC? What are you talking about guy? You don't know how to use email? Twitter? United States Postal Service? Give me a break Berz, just admit you're full of it and start a new thread with a better thought -out premise. This one is a disaster.

How many threads did I start criticizing the Democrats?

Berz... you started this thread criticizing Democrats... I don't need to go looking for another, because I'm already posting in this thread.

you're mad at me for criticizing him

No I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that your arguments are poorly formed, make no sense and don't logically follow from the article you cited. If you want to call that "getting mad", then I don't know what to tell you.

I criticize both parties...

Yes, yes... so we've heard...

Maybe the reason Republicans here dont defend the sins of their party is because they recognize them as sins.

And maybe its because they recognize you as an ally and fellow conservative. One is my take, one is yours... I'm going with my take.

 

[Farm Boy]

And maybe its because they recognize you as an ally and fellow conservative. One is my take, one is yours... I'm going with my take.

Who?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Dey.

 

[Farm Boy]

No, like who would that actually be on CFC? Dey gone.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Tru dat

 

[Berzerker]

Wait... I thought being "3rd on the list" was like some huge big deal worthy of condemnation... but apparently nope...
So not only are you handwaving #1 and #2 to get at Delaware, but now you're also now handwaving #3 and #4. If it was such a big deal to condemn the #3 polluter on the list when you erroneously thought it was Delaware... how come all of a sudden #3 gets a pass? I'll tell you why... Because it was never about who pollutes the most... it was always about you coming up with some pretense to go after Joe Biden... and that has been laid bare by how you're handling being wrong about who really tops the list.

You're confusing the polluter with the states being polluted. As I told Quintillus, Biden was an after thought. I had already compiled the link and quotes before thinking of Biden. How am I handling it? I acknowledged I was wrong about Delaware having the 3rd most affected people, they're 5th. So what? Why does that give Dupont a pass? Delaware is their home and Biden was the Senator there for decades.

And on that note... what's actually more amusing, is how you follow the predictable pattern of saying "X does it the most!" and when its pointed out that you're wrong... the comically predictable follow-up is... "B-b-but per capita! The most per capita!" You follow this same pattern in other contexts and it never gets old.

I didn't say X does it the most (what does that even mean?), I said Delaware had the 3rd most affected people according to the list. You corrected me, they're not 3rd. And? They're 5th and that makes it okay? They're the 1st most polluted state per capita, but I guess that doesn't matter because...well...per capita doesn't matter., or something like that. Dupont has been killing people and you're complaining about 5th as opposed to 3rd. I'll ask again, where are your priorities?

You want Joe Biden's opinion so you ask him on CFC? What are you talking about guy? You don't know how to use email? Twitter? United States Postal Service? Give me a break Berz, just admit you're full of it and start a new thread with a better thought -out premise. This one is a disaster.

I started the thread because Dupont has been killing people. That means their political friends have some answering to do, wouldn't you agree? I guess not if they're Democrats.

Berz... you started this thread criticizing Democrats...

Yes... This thread was started after the raving Trump thread. It was in that thread you accused me of not criticizing Republicans so I linked several threads I started to criticize Republicans. That was when I asked you to cite the threads I started criticizing Democrats, and you're citing this thread - a thread that didn't exist then. You do understand chronology?

I don't need to go looking for another, because I'm already posting in this thread.

I guess you dont... So the answer to my question from an earlier debate about how many threads I started to criticize Democrats is 1 - this one. And the 7 I started to criticize the GOP? Isn't that 7 to 1? But you've decided the 1 makes me a Republican while the 7 makes me... a Republican.

No I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that your arguments are poorly formed, make no sense and don't logically follow from the article you cited. If you want to call that "getting mad", then I don't know what to tell you.

Of course you're mad, if Biden was a Republican you wouldn't be complaining.

And maybe its because they recognize you as an ally and fellow conservative. One is my take, one is yours... I'm going with my take.

I didn't know we had conservative Republicans around here...

Tru dat

Hmm...maybe thats why we dont hear from them when I start threads criticizing Republicans. Dey gone... But if I started threads at Breitbart or FreeRepublic criticizing Ronald Reagan I'm fairly sure they'd be accusing me of being a liberal Democrat.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You're confusing the polluter with the states being polluted. As I told Quintillus, Biden was an after thought. I had already compiled the link and quotes before thinking of Biden.

Well you're certainly not acting like it, because you're still insisting Biden's got something to do with this thread instead of just dropping it. So forgive me for being skeptical of your claim that "Biden was an after thought."

How am I handling it? I acknowledged I was wrong about Delaware having the 3rd most affected people, they're 5th. So what? Why does that give Dupont a pass?

Again... why are you giving the #1, 2, 3 and 4 a pass? They've "killed" the most people. Or does the actual number of people who died not matter for some reason? Is it because "something something per capita something something"? So if in one jurisdiction millions die, but that jurisdiction happens to also include in addition to some urban areas, endless miles of sparely populated mountains and/or desert giving it a higher overall population ... well then those lives matter less than those in a tiny jurisdiction with a more smaller, but more densely concentrated population? I thought you believed All Lives Matter? Guess not. where are your priorities? Oh right, attacking Joe Biden, now I remember.

Delaware is their home and Biden was the Senator there for decades.

Here we go... back on Biden again... doesn't sound like "an after thought" to me... sounds more like exactly the subject you want to talk about. Again if not, prove it. Drop the Biden "after thought" and just go back to... what is this thread about again?

 

[Sommerswerd]

I started the thread because Dupont has been killing people.

Oh is that what the thread is about? You had me fooled. Are you going to start talking about DuPont soon? Or no?

That means their political friends

Still waiting on an article that establishes this premise. In any case I'm not sure I follow your logic... I thought you wanted to talk about DuPont... But now instead you want to talk about politicians? Specifically Democrats? Color me shocked

Of course you're mad, if Biden was a Republican you wouldn't be complaining.

If you were criticizing a Republican your argument would probably be more sound, so there would be less (or nothing) for me to point out in terms of logic fails, etc. If you want to brand anyone who points out the flaws in your arguments as "mad" or "complaining" that's on you... I will add that this kind of mindset is similar to a certain Supreme Leader... maybe you should run for POTUS.

Hmm...maybe thats why we dont hear from them when I start threads criticizing Republicans. Dey gone...

Nah, I'm still going with my original take. Don't read too much into an inside joke.

 

[Berzerker]

Well you're certainly not acting like it, because you're still insisting Biden's got something to do with this thread instead of just dropping it. So forgive me for being skeptical of your claim that "Biden was an after thought." Again... why are you giving the #1, 2, 3 and 4 a pass? They've "killed" the most people. Or does the actual number of people who died not matter for some reason? Is it because "something something per capita something something"? So if in one jurisdiction millions die, but that jurisdiction happens to also include in addition to some urban areas, endless miles of sparely populated mountains and/or desert giving it a higher overall population ... well then those lives matter less than those in a tiny jurisdiction with a more smaller, but more densely concentrated population? I thought you believed All Lives Matter? Guess not. where are your priorities? Oh right, attacking Joe Biden, now I remember. Here we go... back on Biden again... doesn't sound like "an after thought" to me... sounds more like exactly the subject you want to talk about. Again if not, prove it. Drop the Biden "after thought" and just go back to... what is this thread about again?

You can read the OP to see what the thread is about... It has a link and quotes about the subject. I read a long article about Dupont poisoning millions of people - possibly including my family - so I called them death merchants and you're upset because I mentioned Joe Biden. Thats your priority, you want to defend Biden and then blame me for still talking about him. You're talking about him... Thats all you're doing, no bleeding heart for the victims - just Joe gets your sympathy, your outrage is directed at people who dont share your love for that scumbag.

If I wanted to start a thread about Biden, I'd attack him for his vote to invade Iraq and his enthusiastic support for a drug war that has resulted in the mass incarceration of Americans. Those sins are far more egregious than his cozy relationship with Delaware's corporations...

And now you're accusing me of not caring about the victims because Dupont's (and Biden's) home state of Delaware has the 5th most victims and by far the highest per capita affected population with more than a 1/3rd of the state poisoned. How does that mean the victims in other states dont matter? Those other states aren't home to Dupont or Delaware's corporatocracy. Yeah, Biden was the Senator from that state for decades while Dupont was killing people, like it or not, he's emblematic of that cesspool of special interest corruption.

Oh is that what the thread is about? You had me fooled. Are you going to start talking about DuPont soon? Or no?

Still waiting on an article that establishes this premise. In any case I'm not sure I follow your logic... I thought you wanted to talk about DuPont... But now instead you want to talk about politicians? Specifically Democrats? Color me shocked

If you were criticizing a Republican your argument would probably be more sound, so there would be less (or nothing) for me to point out in terms of logic fails, etc. If you want to brand anyone who points out the flaws in your arguments as "mad" or "complaining" that's on you... I will add that this kind of mindset is similar to a certain Supreme Leader... maybe you should run for POTUS.

What flaw in my argument are you talking about? What Republican should I be criticizing? Is there some other politician you think of when Dupont's malfeasance is the subject? Joe Biden's on that podium all by himself...

Nah, I'm still going with my original take. Don't read too much into an inside joke.

You're gonna go with what you want to believe, color me shocked.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You can read the OP to see what the thread is about...

Oh I know what the thread is about... and so do you. So drop the ridiculous pretense that its about DuPont and that "Biden was an after thought". The thread is about attacking Biden, period, and was intended to be so from the beginning. I'm pointing out that you're once again being disingenuous about your motives.

his enthusiastic support for a drug war that has resulted in the mass incarceration of Americans.

Oh boy... this... again? You really need to just start a thread about this, cause you literally try to derail every thread with this "topic."