Merge Sorcery and Summoning?

[GePap]

I would suggest that some of the spheres should be the result of great acts of magical research, ie. to get say a metamagic node you would have to build a national wonder, or sacrifice a high level magic unit to build a node in a city.

 

[Roghar]

Multiple spells per sphere ranking would be nice enough, but I think that going into Cross-sphere spells is a more rewarding way to approach the concept. Fire + Ice = Steam and things like that. Then to get your extra spells you must do something extra, not simply happen to get multiple in one shot.

lol, i like that, Steam, would be a lvl 1 combination spell increasing movement of siege weapons. I'd maybe go so far as to make it dwarven specific

 

[Tyrs]

Fire+ice wouldn't make steam, it'd make Icy Hot, an extremely effective healing spell

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It'd be full healing, but it would paralyze the healed units for a turn to simulate them spending a bunch of time experimenting with it as a masturbatory lubricant.

 

[Seventh Star]

Fire + Ice would make thermal shock, destroys weapon promos and siege units.

 

[Winston]

Hi all,

I've played through a game of the latest version of this mod and I really like it - it's been a while since I've played this mod and I was really impressed with how it's progressed - well done to all involved.
I think the suggestions in Kael's first post would be really good - it makes the religions even more colourful and it insures that lvl 2 spells remain useful to 3rd level casters.
Taking my game as an example - I was playing Perpentach with Oct Overlords religion and I build Hemah (awesome hero) and I specialise him into a meteor throwing badass - but I never once cast fireball becuase it was completely superceded by meteor swarm.
Having spells tied to religions is totally appropriate - tsunami and summon kraken should be specific to Oct Overlords IMO.

In terms of the spell lists I have some suggestions:

1) Air 1 could be FLIGHT - gives flight promo to unit stack.
2) Body 2 (REGENERATION) - have the spell immediately heal some damage for the unit stack.
3) Chaos 1 could be PANDEMONIUM - caster creates a large cloud of mind altering hallucinagenic gas that affects all friendly and enemy units. Troops are affected randomly - either taking some damage or healing some life - I'm thinking that the drugs would either boost units by filling them with blinding range/ supreme overconfidence or weaken units by instilling craven cowardice/ passive docility - could also be random promos maybe. Large affect but it's random and affects friends and foes.
4) Death 2 and 3 - are you sure that you want summon spectre and wraith in the same block? summon wraith will supercede summon spectre
5) Dimensional - this sphere should give really cool movement spells - I'm thinking Dimensional 2 DIMENSIONAL JUMP - gives unit stack the paradrop (vanilla civ) ability for 1 turn because the caster forms small temporary dimension gates that allow troops to quickly travel - however ther's a chance they might be killed when jumping/paradropping because the gate might break down while they're travelling through it to the other side
Dimensional 3 DIMENSION GATE - caster creates a permanent gate that can be used by all units (Airport terrain improvement for all unit types) - caster must build the gate (takes several turns) and once the gate is built there's a chance each turn that it might spawn barbs (dimension beasts)
6) Earth 1 WALL OF STONE - builds a fort in 1 turn maybe? or boosts units to maximum fortification in 1 turn?
7) Life 3 RESSURECTION - grants immortal promo to caster
8) Spirit 3 TRUST - gives a cumulative benefit each time it's cast
9) Force 1 FORCEFIELD - protective buff to unit stack
Force 3 - FORCE CONDUIT - Caster absorbs the elemental forces that permeate the world into his own body to develop superhuman abilities - caster gains promo that adds 10 to it's strength
10) Creation - this seems really similar to life - not really sure what the flavour is for this mana sphere
11) Ice 1 SUMMON FROSTLING - Summons permanent frostling (capped like with skellies)
Ice 2 - ICE BOLT - Ice version of fireball
Ice 3 - SNOW STORM - Caster creates a blizzard (like age of ice)
12) Esus spells - do you want religion specific spells for Esus even though they don't have priests?

 

[Winston]

Also, I was thinking that the magic system could really benefit from the corporation mechanic in that the magic wonders could create HQs that absorb the different mana node resources but all compete because they also use reagents - this would reward mana node synergy e.g. Guild of Necromancers would use DEATH, ENTROPY, SHADOW, and REAGENTS.
I know FFH2 already has some corps but I think that most need alot of boosting/fleshing out and 1 (council of the 9) needs toning down - I will prob start a new thread on this and the magic guild ideas as it's off topic here.
Additionally I think there should be rewards for mana node focus such as access to powerful buildings/units/promos/national wonders - I'll post more on this in a seperate thread

 

[sylvain5477]

Hi all,


4) Death 2 and 3 - are you sure that you want summon spectre and wraith in the same block? summon wraith will supercede summon spectre

If one of them is permanent, then it won't really supercede (especially if the strongest is permanent)

 

[TheJopa]

If one of them is permanent, then it won't really supercede (especially if the strongest is permanent)

It is not always a bad thing to supersede, after all Archmages come latter, need minimum level 6, and are limited to just 4.

 

[sylvain5477]

It is not always a bad thing to supersede, after all Archmages come latter, need minimum level 6, and are limited to just 4.

Still better to become more powerful by having new powerful spells instead of more powerful versions of the same spell IMO.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think that it would be better for most level 3 spell sphere promotions to allow multiple spells, and then to add cross-sphere spells too.

 

[Meserach]

Cross sphere spells sounds like extra complexity to me. I thought people were already criticising the spell system for being too confusing.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Well, some people have been asking for them for awhile, but generally the position is that we have enough spells.
Certainly adding cross sphere spells for every combo is out, (21*21*3=too many) so putting in any number is kind of arbitrary, and if the ideas were good enough they ought to just replace a weaker (read:less interesting) spell.

 

[Kael]

Well, some people have been asking for them for awhile, but generally the position is that we have enough spells.
Certainly adding cross sphere spells for every combo is out, (21*21*3=too many) so putting in any number is kind of arbitrary, and if the ideas were good enough they ought to just replace a weaker (read:less interesting) spell.

I agree 100%. Id even rather grant spells as unique abilites of certain units than cross sphere spells.

 

[eerr]

I agree 100%. Id even rather grant spells as unique abilites of certain units than cross sphere spells.

what about abilities that somewhat duplicate the effects of spells?
like a way to put out a single fire with a unit
or a spell that gives an ability to other units, and allows them to... heal other units for 5%?

oh, and if it stays caster only-
stoneskin should give earth affinity-nvm, forgot about stoneskin ogres...
maybe + defense?

 

[Tarquelne]

Cross-sphere spells:

Might be a good opportunity for a modmod: Take some of the newly cut spells (and ones now only used as events) and reintroduce them as cross-sphere spells.

 

[xienwolf]

Stoneskin grants some spell resistance (20% as I recall)

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

Two big questions for the new system:

1. Do we need Channeling 1 anymore?

Since in the old system this kept Priests from casting the level 1 spells (inexplicably), and now they can only cast those spells which are hard-coded into them... is there a purpose?

The main purpose of Channeling 1 now would be to ensure that every caster unit gets some xps/turn to level with. That's all I can figure out.

 

[Shadow World]

Didn't read all of the posts, so forgive me if this was already mentioned. Some of the spells being removed are pretty useful. It would be nice to reserve some of these spells for special units or summons, like Meteor Swarm for fire elementals, or even Restore City for great prophets.

Similar thought, some thing i thought of a while ago but never posted, it would be nice if units could build catapults in forest tiles. Maybe a promotion or new tech, or both. Can give a plus turn penalty for building outside of a city. Would be nice for those long commutes.

 

[Omegon3]

Reading over the lost spells in .31 I was really disappointed and wished that I had come across this thread earlier to put in my "two cents" worth... Two of my most-used spells (and I'm probably unusual in these) are the "Summon Guardian Vine" (I like one in each of my cities as an additional defensive unit) and "Summon Meteor Swarm" (great replacement for slow siege weapons) since archmages could be given the "haste" promotion to make them faster and the meteors were fantastic for both offense (and defense!).

Without reading all the previous threads, WHY would you remove such powerful and useful spells?

I also liked the "lifespark" -- especially since the Sphener could also summon them as well as summoners and they assisted when invading.

Anyway, I'm REALLY going to miss these two spells as well as the lifespark... I will also miss the variety you offerred in the spells. This will REALLY change my strategy since I always placed both a mage and a conjurer in each of my cities given their difference in ability.