Merz01 - Monarch OCC, Straight Up

This is more a question on everyone’s opinion, but is/would the great merchant have been better used to get a trade route (or whatever it’s called)? What I mean is would it have been better to send the great merchant out to a far of city, and do the trade route thing to get a massive amount of gold? Or is it better to merge the merchant as a super specialist?
This question is for an OCC game only.

Great job Thor!
 
Pre-turn (265 left):

Wow, thanks for the Great Scientist, heh. I join him, of course.

Interesting, Cyrus has actually overtaken Mao in score, but Mao is somewhat more powerful (presumably due to production necessary for his war with Vicky:

CaptureWiz038.jpg


Our bud Capac is lagging quite badly. The upshot is that we shouldn't be worried about Mao running away with the game - yet. If he absorbs Vicky completely then we have trouble though.

Can we stop this? I see that Mao would be willing to make peace with Vicky for essentially Printing Press. I need to know more before doing this... I'll scout near London. If it looks like it will fall, then maybe.

Capac is willing to war with Cyrus now... but we want to gain Cyrus as an ally to deploy against Mao, so no go.

No decent trades to make.

City looks real good... 486 beakers in 1350 AD - +72 from specialists already! We may win this after all! I switch techs to Scientific Method.

Turn 1 (265 left):

Confucianism autospreads in Vilca-whatever.

I realize the scout can't even go in Vicky's lands because no OB. So I have no way to tell what's going on in London. Annoying.

Our workers have jack to do. I put them all on road spam.

Still no trades I want to do. The AIs seems to be surprisingly far behind us in tech. Cyrus doesn't even bloody have Paper. I don't want to get Printing Press out there yet and have have it traded around the world in 2 turns unless I can make a huge profit (which I can't).

Turn 2 (264 left):

Berlin is growing like a freaking weed. I revolt to Slavery and pop-rush the Observatory (just kidding).

Turn 3 (263 left):

Stupid Mao... he won't trade jack because we're too advanced. Well, we are, but still.

Some thoughts here. Mao and Cyrus continue to hate each other. If I can just get Cyrus to be a little more friendly, I can hire him to stab Mao in the back. I'd rather not do that with gifting yet, as that would injure us with Mao. Instead I'll try to do it with missionaries.

Turn 4 (262 left):

Zzz.

Turn 5 (261 left):

The power graph shows that Vicky and Mao's units are levelling off... perhaps there's a stalemate?

Turn 6 (260 left):

Observatory -> missionary. These are 1-turn missionaries - I hope I can have Cyrus converted soon!

I trade Cyrus our useless silk for 8 gpt.
I also trade Capac our horse for 8 gpt. We have no need for mounted units yet.
We're now running a 16 gpt surplus - at 100% science. (Forgive me now Liq!)

Turn 7 (259 left):

Scientific Method -> Physics.

Turn 8 (258 left):

I figure it's safe to trade PP now. I get Engineering + HB + map + 470 gold for it from Mao. We do need the gold for possible emergency upgrade situations. He doesn't even have Education yet.

Turn 9 (257 left):

Confuse Pasargardae.

Cyrus boasts of his grens. Yeah, bite me.

Turn 10 (256 left):

Mao is the first to circumnavigate the globe. You go girl.

Turn 11 (255 left):

Confuse both Arbala and Persopolis. Cyrus won't convert yet because he doesn't like us enough... but I hope that he'll do it automatically once we turn all his cities.

Mao has made peace with Vicky and London still stands. Good boy!

Interesting... Mao is willing to declare on Cyrus for Education. Maybe later after I convert his cities.

Turn 12 (254 left):

Izzy demands 100 gold. Go suck an egg.

BOW TO THE MASTER: :rockon:

CaptureWiz039.jpg


He's still cautious but it's a start. Only +1 siblings bonus but this will improve greatly over time. I'll still convert the last of his large cities.

Turn 13 (253 left):

:sleep:

Turn 14 (252 left):

OK all our missionaries are en-route to Cyrus' last three large cities. Working on a bank now. I consider trying to convert Mao but decide that it would be futile - he's the founder of Xianity and all his cities are Xian.

In a riveting display of awesome military strength, I upgrade a handful of units to macemen. Immediately 5 AIs dial us up and offer tribute.

Turn 15 (251 left):

Bah, Tarsus fails to confuse. Queue another missionary to fire after the bank finishes. I also notice we'll need another missionary for Sidon.

To next player:

Confuse Cyrus' remaining cities.

Build a grocer, we're almost at our healthly limit.

Mao is still willing to declare on Cyrus for Education. Unfortunately I'd rather have Cyrus declare on Mao instead because because we want to spread the minus modifiers between these two, but Cyrus doesn't like us enough yet. Keep an eye on the power and score graphs. If somebody is about to pull away, then consider starting the war.

http://nryan.com/Civ4/Merz01/Turn04/Merz01AD-1490.Civ4SavedGame
 
Thanks guys. :) I tried my best. I figured although a large amount of cash would have been nice the extra food was really good as well as the extra beakers. I suppose if we would have got 1000 gold from a trade route that would have been nice too. I just looked at the food and made my decision. Another Great Merchant will equal another specialist. I thought that was stellar. I did think about it for about 5 minutes and that was my reasoning.
Good luck guys. :) Things will start to get interesting now. :)
Great job Merzbow. Cyrus converting was a coup. If we play the balance of power right we can get the two big dogs to fight in a tech slowing down war. We will profit from other people's misery. Why do I feel like Machiavelli? :P
 
Merzbow (just played)
Liquidated (up)
Methos (on deck)
Thormodr
 
(more unsolicited AI advice)

You have to get Cyrus up to Friendly to get him to think about declaring for you--he has annoyingly Gandhi-like code in that regard.

However, that religion bonus will appreciate to +5 in 40 turns. So it's within reach.
 
just got home let me chill a bit

I trade Music to Mao for Compass and 220 gold. I figure that will help us get Astronomy (and the Observatory) faster and will give us funds for a peace treaty or emergency upgrade. I talk to Vicky and her price for Peace is now only 70 gold. I accept as I am cautious by nature.

dead on there thor.
The refusal of tech for peace to vicky. good
getting cash from mao thinking to get peace for cash from vicky... good!
getting said tech to lead to astromomy
signing peace with vicky for 70 gold.

that paragragh quoted is just pure civ smarts.



merchants make great super specs in ooc since the gold per turn they give is pure - I mean pure in that it's always the same no matter what the % research/culture is.

Between the shrine and merch specs, that's about the only way I can think of off hand to score pure coin that the banks and markets then just skyrocket.

That they add beakers under rep is WIN and the food they give is also great, that's a resource in demand.

And yes, max 6 displayed super specs in the display, the rest are there, just cannot see them. I wish the setup was first in first out as it wouldn;t freak people out quite as much :lol:

freetrade is the econ civic we want until environ comes in.. the 6 health from environ + representation's extra sepc beakers = WIN.

In a sense vicky was our toughest competition tech wise, that war with mao really stalled her.

when we are idle just spam missonaries for the cash. After all buildings are accounted for each city converted has a profound effect on our bottom line.

Remember, the OCC makes a city unlike any other in civ... wall street (and redcross and hermitage etc etc) is yet to come lol.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
ndthsmdy said:
(more unsolicited AI advice)

You have to get Cyrus up to Friendly to get him to think about declaring for you--he has annoyingly Gandhi-like code in that regard.

However, that religion bonus will appreciate to +5 in 40 turns. So it's within reach.

Cool. I dearly miss having Alex or Monte in this game... it's very easy to get them to declare on virtually anyone. Of course the risk is that they need to be at least somewhat friendly with you and you need to keep them at war the ENTIRE game - or they'll turn on you.
 
oh, got it, expect turns in a few..

one other thing want to stress about mechants..

A dollar sign in the pocket is worth 0.1 in the bank.

life real life, cash in the wallet seems to disappear faster when things like coffee from starbucks or a new pair of shoes comes under question.

In civ everyone can see everyone else's wallet such that gift demands and trades start to scale up the gold amunt based not on how much you earn but how much is in the wallet.

The 1600 odd gold from a merchant misson isn't good unless you need the cash like NOW and plan to spend it yourself for things like elevated research rates, upgrading/buying units when you know war is brewing and of course flat out bribery!

I find it's better to actually stall a merchant misson if I plan to use one until I need the cash, as I'd rather send it on myself then the greedy bastards around me.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
preflight

ok lets see the beakers! haha 520 nice nice.

oh interesting on reload the merchant super spec shows up.

ok grocer is not gonna help us on health as we have none of the items for the bonus health. market and gorcer are both 4 turns tho but we have no temples.. we want a shrine.

getting broadway is important for us in that it's 5 resources we can trade for health.Same with rock and roll. we'll the lock on both.

physics in 2 sweet.

[1]1500 AD
pin confusion on tarsus in one. gonna need more missonaries.

[2]1505 AD
Physics comes in and we have nukes in town and a great scientist... who is 1542 beakers towards electricity that's only 3 turns saved at our research rate... and as a super sepc that's one hammer + 9x2.25 beakers a turn...

10 turns on electricity.

I mull it over a bit and decide to go super spec as it'll pay for it's own beakers in under 76 turns assuming no other knowledge % buildsing coming in... plus that hammer is still useful. as it is, shaving three turns off fiber is nothing special as we have such a lead in that line of tech.

susa gets confused as well... that leaves two more towns for persia and one for capac.

Going to hammer out those missonaries now.

confusion agents in 1,1,1. =p

[3]1510 AD
confusion sent to vilcas in capac land.

[4]1515 AD
confusion sent to Gordium in "greece"

[5]1520 AD
confusion sent to Sidon in "greese"
going to change over to confused temple to power up a GP priest.

[6]1525 AD
doh forgot to send the agent on his way!
Vilcas confused. yay.

[7]1530 AD
Capac wants to trade nationalism + 50 for astornomy.. I tell him thanks but no.
Confused temple comes in going for christian temple in 2.

we get john dalton, another great scientist. super spec again.

Gordium confused. yay.

making a priest spec from that engineer. we want a great profit for shrine.

[8]1535 AD
auto roading workers hook the uranium up.

[9]1540 AD
Temple comes in and I make 2 priests. stagnating growth.... doing this for the great profit. also we only had a 2 food surplus so next growth would have caused starvation.

grocery in 3.

[10]1545 AD
Sidon is confused. 4 for 4 on conversions this round.. can relax on the missonarys for now.

mao has replacible parts now but is not willing the trade them.

[11]1550 AD
electricity comes in, Radio in 12.

Queue up broadway in 14 afer grocery next turn.

[12]1555 AD
Cyrus wants us to cancel deals with mao. That's not possible so I say sorry and decline. religon is +2 already.

grocery finishes for no additional health yet... start on broadway.

[13]1560 AD
well we are a sustained +27 gold a turn on 100% science.

[14]1565 AD
hmm not sure what to type here.

[15]1570 AD
so gained another 107 beakers a turn, we are at 627 a turn now. hammers up to 45 and have 42 Great ppl points coming along. 35% chance of getting a priest now preist % will go up. A shrine will give us lots of cash.

going to take 16 more turns to get a great person.


Broadway in 11 turns... use the hits to trade for wheat from capac we want wheat and corn as they are each with 2 health to us.

wine is +1 health and capac and mao both are willing to trade bronze.

aim for rock and roll to use a bribes for bronze.

ALL of cyrus's and capacs towns are confused. finally.

btw capac will trade wheat for 12 gold a turn and copper for 16. Didn;t bother with it yet , if we get a shrine built we'll have tons of excess cash at 100% research to play with that. musicals and movies alone will give us leverage on those crucial commodities.

Keep an eye on cyrus btw his power is climbing steadily. Us getting him confused was a great idea.

am beat tired so a screen free post. sorry!


Cheers!
-Liq
 
Nice work Liq. :goodjob:
I loaded up the save to keep current on the status of our fair city and generally snoop around. I noticed we have both Uranium and Oil. Cool!
Hopefully we will get Coal as well.
Nice turns. Once we get Computers we will be rocking. ^^
It's all shaping up nicely. ;)

Oh and thanks for your kind words. I am getting better. You can teach this old dog new tricks. ;)
 
Thormodr said:
You can teach this old dog new tricks. ;)

Just curious, what do you consider as old? I found your above statement as odd as I figured you for being younger (mid 20's on down). My apologies if that offended you. I'm the curious type. :blush:

Looks like we're doing great on our end. As others have stated our victory appears to depend highly on keeping our neighbors under control.

Oh yeah, got it.
 
Okay, I'm a little confused at the moment. Currently what exactly are our plans. Research is set and understood, but I'm a little uncertain on how to deal with everyone diplomatically. Diplomacy is my weak point in [civ4]. I'll go back over everyones posts but would still like some suggestions/advice before I continue. I'll wait until at least this afternoon before I play if no one states anything. Sorry for the slowdown.
 
Heh heh. Age is irrelevant in a computer game. It's all in the mind. Mind you I can be as immature as anyone. I'm 36 BTW. :crazyeye:
Life is all about perspective. To students that I teach I am astronomically old, but to their parents, I am contemparary.
To sum it up, I am definately younger and look much younger than Julius Caesar in this game. ;)

As far as Diplomacy goes our goal is to keep everyone below us in tech. It will take a long time to build a spaceship in one city so we need a big time advantage to do this in.
The best way to do that is to keep the AI at war. However we would prefer a stalemate as we don't want one AI making major gains in a war and becoming too powerful. I think we should keep HC as an ally so keep him happy as he shares most of our borders. Mao and Cyrus are the biggest threats as they are the point leaders. We need to improve our relations with Cyrus and then get Mao and Cyrus to have a long and pointless war. We will obviously have to bribe one side to do this and it will likely have to involve tech. Using tech that is as useless towards the spaceship as possible is advised, as in older tech is best. Saladin, Vicky and Izzy aren't threats at all so we don't want them warring too much as they could get wiped out, thereby making another AI much more powerful. If they war with each other that's ok but we don't want them getting too weak where they fall prey to either Cyrus or Mao.
If those three do start on a spaceship we could get either Cyrus (for Saladin) or Mao (for Vicky or Izzy) to destroy them.
If either Mao or Cyrus start on a spaceship, we need the other side to declare war and have HC jump in as well.
Trying to keep a low profile and play power politics is what we have to do. I must admit it is not my strong suit either. However, it is a lot of fun and very challenging. Just my opinion and two cents worth.
Good work all. :goodjob:
 
I curse myself for not shrining that GP I had earlier in the game. Lesson for next game - if it looks like you're gonna run a state religion, you're inevitably gonna have to spread it, which means you're gonna need a shrine. We definitely need to hire priests to try to pop one (good move Liq).

627 beakers is good. Once we hit Lab and our towns grow more we should be pulling 700+. 700+ is the minimum I consider possible to win OCC on Monarch without getting really lucky.
 
Merzbow said:
I curse myself for not shrining that GP I had earlier in the game. Lesson for next game - if it looks like you're gonna run a state religion, you're inevitably gonna have to spread it, which means you're gonna need a shrine. We definitely need to hire priests to try to pop one (good move Liq).

Recall originally you hadn’t planned on running a state religion. I switched to a state religion and I was under the impression that we would be switching to Free Religion eventually. It just so happened that we were able to use the religion to our advantage.

To my turns:

Turn 224 (1570 AD)
Methos: Looks like we're at 627 bpt. That's really good. Makes me curious as to just how high we can get in an OCC. Guess we'll have to find out.

Turn 225 (1575 AD)
Methos: Cyrus wants to swap Gunpowder and 40 gold for our Scientific Method. I decline.

Turn 227 (1585 AD)
Methos: Saladin demands we stop all trades with the Persians. I decline.

Turn 231 (1605 AD)
Tech learned: Radio

Turn 232 (1610 AD)
Methos: We have entered the Modern Era.

Turn 234 (1620 AD)
Berlin finishes: Broadway

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Berlin begins: Rock N Roll
Methos: I trade a Hit Single to Capac for his wheat.
Methos: Unsure about this deal, but I traded a hit single to Cyrus for Dyes. This was more to improve relations than anything.

Turn 238 (1640 AD)
Shankara (Great Prophet) born in Berlin

Turn 239 (1645 AD)
Methos: :woohoo: Great job Liq! Due to your hiring of priests we got a great prophet! I merge him as a super specialist. Just kidding. A shrine is built.
Berlin finishes: The Kong Miao
Methos: Wow! The shrine is making +20 gpt, which increases us from +27 gpt to +61 gpt! And that's at 100% research!
Methos: I switch the priest specialist back to scientist.

Notes:
-There are still 3 hit singles left to trade off. I must say that in an OCC Broadway and Rock N Roll are awesome as trading tools.

Here’s the 1645 AD save.

Roster:
Merzbow
Liquidated
Methos
Thormodr- Up
 
Wow.

1. Pacifism is insanely powerful in OCC for making GPs - so it always makes sense to run it, and thus run a state religion, and thus make a shrine.
2. I never considered before the usefulness of Broadway and RocknRoll. Neat. Also see if you can trade the excess singles&stuff for gpt.
3. We may want to hire some engineers instead of scientists - it may slow down our science slightly, but joined engineers are awesome for hammers (and perhaps for the Space Elevator later on).
 
Feel free to take your time Thorm... I won't be able to play until tomorrow night at the earliest.

I'm beginning to feel the only way we can lose is with a disastrous war. I fear that Saladin may be getting pissed enough to consider attacking. We should position some units near his borders to see in and make sure our allies would be ready to declare.

At some point we should research Communism and build spies. This has proven its usefulness for me again and again in OCC games. We could also consider deviating to nab Biology. These would be the only two deviations from the main beeline I think would be worth it.

Merzbow (on deck)
Liquidated
Methos (just played)
Thormodr (up)
 
Alrighty then. I will play tonight. Excellent job once again Methos.
I will continue to head for Computers I guess tech wise. Is Fusion the next beeline for the great Engineer or Rocketry so we can start on the Apollo program?
Biology certainly sounds worthwhile as is Communism. I guess we really need them all, it's the order that's important I guess.
I will try and secure Replaceable parts if I can for a cheap tech to give us a boost in production if the right deal is there. I won't research it myself though.
I will try and explore diplomatic options that benefit us.
I will continue to work on Hit Singles and when I finish them I will try and flog them around. Then I will start I will start on a Labratory. :)
I will upgrade our military as keeping a stockpile of money means our greedy neighbours will be looking for a piece right? I believe that was the argument against the Great Merchant conducting a trade mission.
Good job on the Shrine. $$$!

Oh, and Got it!
 
Yeah engineers are good as all specs are grabbing beakers under rep.

Scientists are good in that we want beakers and fast.

by the same measure though we want hammers coming in at the rocket stage so enginners useful as well.

So scientists and engineers is not really a clear cut right wrong answer.

Switching off preists after getting the shrine was a good move though, only needed one more great profit. Glad my gambit on the priest GP worked out.

I disagree about your regrets on the first priest btw muf. We did the right move by super specing it as it's given us many many turns of hammers and research. WE poped the shrine later than optimal but hey cash only goes so far, we are never going Universal sufferage.

What a shrine now does is seal 100% research and give us lots of bribing power.

As for spies YES. I won more than a few OOC's by sabotaging the engine bits of rival nations to gain me 10 more turns.

we want Scotland yard built.

Cheers!
-Liq


omgz merz!!!! we gotta move the culture slider to 100% now it's after 1600!!!!!
 
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