Michael Moore and his unending fight against the forces of evil! (APPLAUSE)

[yoshi]

DUDE, WHERE’S MY COUNTRY? By Michael Moore

The guy who spoke out at the Oscars and was booed (but also applauded –the duality of Hollywood) and made the movie, ‘Bowling for Columbine’ has made another contribution to the world of telling-it-as-it-is.
Check out this book. It’s a riot. But don’t be fooled, beneath the hilarious jokes is a grim story that outlines the almost unbelievably large amount of B.S. that is continually being barfed up by the American cooperate elite and their media lackeys, then branches off to the not-so-nice aspects of American foreign policy throughout the world. All this, backed by facts that even the most right-wing, freedom-hating, elitist, truth-distorting politician would find hard to sleaze away from.

In the book he talks about everything from Bush’s deals with the very relatives of the people Americans now call terrorists to government freedoms that are the wet dream of every executive at DARPA to the reality of the American invasion of Iraq and of course, oil.

(Bush, DARPA, terrorists and Iraq all in one sentence. There goes my privacy. )

Read Chapter 4: especially the part about Section.220 of the ‘Patriot Act,’ it will make you think twice about ever posting any form of dissent on the net again.

Excerpt from that section (in one of his rare humorous he refers to recently introduced amendments to existing legislation that give the FBI and other government agencies extraordinary powers):

“There is usually very little in the way of an electronic or paper trail when it comes to terrorists. They pay cash and lay low. You and me, however, we leave trails everywhere --credit cards, cell phones, medical records, online; everything we do. Who is really being watched here?”

It’s absolutely incredible and a tribute to ordinary Americans that this book even got published. And the worst part is that he doesn’t exactly reveal anything that many people don’t already know…it’s just that a lot of them don’t live in the US. Just imagine if he had, geez…he never would’ve written again (I shouldn’t speak too soon since that may yet be his fate –let’s hope not)!

Just type in his name on-line and you should get all the info about Moore and his work.


Anyone else read the book, or Stupid White Men (gotta love that title )?

 

[The Yankee]

I think it would be funny if Moore's words were translated into that Valley Girl speak website that was somewhere else.

He makes good ponts on a few things....but, I get very tired of his raging lunatic schtick very fast.

 

[amadeus]

I think his fight against the truth speaks a lot louder.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

"Fight against the truth"? Limbaugh and Coulter lie CHRONICALLY and get it proven to them as well. Doesn't stop them, I guess.

Can you show me an instance in any of Michael Moore's books where he states a factual falsehood?

Far from me be it to defend Mike Moore, except from unfounded accusations

 

[amadeus]

(1.) A high school shooting in Michigan. Moore says that Charleton Heston holds a "pro-gun rally" just after the shooting. In fact, Heston held a "get out the vote" rally eight months after the shooting.

(2.) The U.S. "aid" to the Taliban. In fact, the money in question was given to the United Nations and non-governmental organizations to relieve famine.

(3.) Moore says that there were 11,127 firearm homocides in the United States. In fact, the real number was about 3,000 less than what he had stated.

(4.) Heston again. This time, Moore says that he is a "racist." In fact, Heston picketed segregated restaurants and led the actors component of King's 1963 Washington D.C. march.

That's just a few from "Bowling For Columbine," and there's plenty more of that, as well.

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

Somebody run that through "Tha Shizzolator."

http://asksnoop.com/

 

[De Lorimier]

For those of you interested in the so-called lies in "Bowling for Columbine":
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
Here's an example of his explanations about the lies spread about the facts presented in the documentary:

I've also been accused of making up the gun homicide counts in the United States and various countries around the world. That is, like all the rest of this stuff, a bald-face lie. Every statistic in the film is true. They all come directly from the government. Here are the facts, right from the sources:

The U.S. figure of 11,127 gun deaths comes from a report from the Center for Disease Control. Japan's gun deaths of 39 was provided by the National Police Agency of Japan; Germany: 381 gun deaths from Bundeskriminalamt (German FBI); Canada: 165 gun deaths from Statistics Canada, the governmental statistics agency; United Kingdom: 68 gun deaths, from the Centre for Crime and Justice studies in Britain; Australia: 65 gun deaths from the Australian Institute of Criminology; France: 255 gun deaths, from the International Journal of Epidemiology.

 

[allhailIndia]

I find Moore an interesting read, though a tad to the left of Marx
Some of his ideas are plain ludicrous, though some are very thought provoking and interesting. Ive read Stupid White Men, and was planning to get Dude where's my country?
Even here terrorsim is being used to stifle dissent to some extent, but was blatantly used to justify genocide in Gujarat. Yes, it did happen and like most other Indians, I won't be apologetic for my country in front of a world audience. It has happened and can happen again. Our only hope is the voice of the usually unheard middle class. IT is only they who have shown the Congress the boot after 45 years of poor governance and have given the BJP notice that it cannot use HIndutva anymore to justify its stand vis-a-vis Muslims.
I have read parts of the Patriot Act and it troubles me that Terrorists have nearly succeeded in seriously hurting America's finest institution... its democracy.

 

[MrPresident]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
"Fight against the truth"? Limbaugh and Coulter lie CHRONICALLY and get it proven to them as well. Doesn't stop them, I guess.

Do not excuse the bad actions of one person by the bad actions of others. Just because Limbaugh and Coutler might lie doesn't mean Michael Moore can lie. Therefore the is no reason whatsoever to bring them into a discussion about the validity of Moore's facts and statistics. To do so clouds the issue and leads to the suggestion of a lack of argument. If you dispute the assertion of some people that Moore does not tell the whole truth in his books and films than come up with evidence to prove the counter not evidence to prove that others do what it is claimed Moore did. Also just because a person thinks Moore lies doesn't mean they don't also think Limbaugh and Coutler lies. The world isn't composed of two directly opposite poles of opinion.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I suggest you to read Paul O'Neill's books about why Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz really wanted to invade Iraq. The war had been planned way before the September 11th for imperialist reasons of military and economic control over the region. The reasons to invade it are those of a colonialist war. If you think Paul O'Neill is a leftist zealot, I should remember you he's a republican and the former Treasury Secretary of the United States.

 

[Archer 007]

Copy of Heston's speech in Denver given 10 days after Columbine:

GOOD MORNING.

I want to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Of course, you have a right to be here.

As you know, we've canceled the festivities and fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. I apologize for that. But it's fitting and proper that we should do this ... because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity

Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver, sent me a message: "Don't come here. We don't want you here, "

I say to the Mayor, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you could say the same. But the Mayor said, "Don't come."

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing. "Don't come here." This is our country. As Americans we are free to travel wherever we wish in our broad land.

They say we'll create a media distraction. But we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction. But it has not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

They say, "Don't come here." I guess what saddens me most is how it suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and eighty million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care as much as they, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

"Don't come here." That's offensive. It's also absurd, because we live here.

There are thousands of NRA members in Denver and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado. NRA members labor in Denver's factories, populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the front range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches, and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

NRA members are in City Hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students of Columbine from evil, mindless executioners.

"Don't come here?" We are already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross-section of American life imaginable.

So we have the same right as all other citizens to be here ... to help shoulder the grief... to share our sorrow ... and to offer our respectful, reasoned voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy

One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile toward us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So let us be mindful ... the eyes of the nation are upon us today.

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
I suggest you to read Paul O'Neill's books about why Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz really wanted to invade Iraq. The war had been planned way before the September 11th for imperialist reasons of military and economic control over the region. The reasons to invade it are those of a colonialist war. If you think Paul O'Neill is a leftist zealot, I should remember you he's a republican and the former Treasury Secretary of the United States.

You're the one who constantly call other people ignorant, right?

Anyway... Yes, there are falsehoods in Michael Moore's books and movies. I could care less about Ann Coulter, she doesn't make books or movies for an international audience... Moore however tries to push his crap on us Europeans...

This is the best list of lies in Bowling. Who believes that garbage, really? The article De Lorimir refered to doesn't deal with these lies at all.

 

[cgannon64]

How Deal wit da Lies 'n da Lying Liars When They Lie 'bout "Bowling fo' Columbine"
by Michael Moore
One thing yo' ass get used when yo' ass're in wass called "da public eye" is reading da humorous fiction that others like write 'bout yo' ass, know what I'm sayin'? For instance, I has read in quite respectable 'n trustworthy publications that a) I'm a college graduate (I'm not), b) I wuz a factory worker (I quit da first day), 'n c) I has two brothers (I has none) n' ****. Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, 'n not on any park), 'n da Internet Movie Database once listed me as da director of da Elvis movie, "Blue Hawaii" ( I wuz 6 at da time da film wuz made, but I wuz quite skilled in directing my sisters in building me a snowman), know what I'm sayin'? Lately, my favorite mistake is da one many reviewers made crediting da cartoon in "Bowling fo' Columbine" as being da work of da "South Park" creators." It ain't. I wrote that shiznit 'n my buddy Harold Moss's animation studio drew that shiznit."
I've enjoyed reading these inventions/mistakes 'bout this "Michael Moore, know what I'm sayin'? " I mean, who wouldn't want fantasize 'bout living in penthouses roughhousing wit brothers yo' ass never had n' ****. But lately I've begun see so many things 'bout me or my work that aren't true." It's become so easy spread these fictions through da internet (thanks mostly lazy reporters or web junkies who do izzall they research by typing in "key words" 'n then just repeat da same mistakes)." And so I wonder that if I don't correct da record, then izzall of da muthas who don't know better may just end up being filled wit a bunch of stuff that ain't true."
Of course, that shiznit would take a lot of my time contact izzall these sites 'n media outlets correct they errors 'n I think that shiznit's mo' important I spend my time on my next book or movie so I just let that shiznit ride, know what I'm sayin'? But is that fair yo' ass, da reader, who has now been told something that ain't true?

Lets see if the censor can catch all that ****.

 

[Double Barrel]

Originally posted by Adebisi
This is the best list of lies in Bowling. Who believes that garbage, really? The article De Lorimir refered to doesn't deal with these lies at all.

Thanks for the link! I've forwarded the article to a couple of my "Bowling for Columbine" loving friends who believe all of it like a fish on a hook.

Moore is pathetic. Any chance to respect the man is dashed when he pulls stunts like this, which are a direct result of his desire to remake this country in his socialist agenda.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

I've got to assume that that hard-core demonstration of racist nonsense was intended to be humorous. If Moore actually typed that drivel, then all I can say is a) he's trying to turn the subject to an allegation of racism against those who call him on his dishonesty instead of his dishonesty, b) The whole statement is nothing more than a meaningless evasion, and c) MM is openly ******ed if he thinks that claiming racism is behind people pointing out that he, a fat white male, is also a lying liar who tells lies, is going to foo lanyone. He's WHITE!

 

[sysyphus]

I think Michael Moore makes a valuable contribution in that he balances out the extreme right views also in the American media (Limbaugh etc.)

Of course, I always take everything he puts out with a grain of salt, even though we are generally on the same side, I make a point of questioning everything he says, he's just too far slanted to do otherwise.

Particularly, it's somewhat funny how he often paints Canada as some kind of Utopia, we certainly are not, far from it.

Note the scene in "Bowling" where he walks around Toronto looking for unlocked doors and shows three of them. He probably went to over 100 places before he found three unlocked doors. I certainly lock mine.

Another scene in the same film where he shows a so-called "Canadian Slum" which in the film is a pleasant little street. That was a Co-op housing neighbourhood, and the people who live there are generally lower class, but there are indeed some quite ugly neighbourhoods here.

So in all, I like Michael Moore, but do not take him too seriously.

 

[cgannon64]

That's true sysyphus.

Or when he goes to the guy who just came out of the hospital:

"How much did that cost you?"
"Uh...nothing." (Confused at stupid question)
"You mean its FREE?" (As if he just say Jesus return from the grave)
"Uh...yeah."

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Do not excuse the bad actions of one person by the bad actions of others.

Very true, thank you for catching me on that I wouldn't want to fall into the same trap as people with bad "Clinton made all those mistakes" disease or like those who cheerfully inform me that Iraq is still "better than it was under Saddam". I mean that sincerely by the way

 

[yoshi]

Okay, so he distorted clips in BFC to make it fit the picture he was trying to convey; that's what we call fighting fire with fire --and Mike is getting slightly burnt as a result (the replies in this thread speak to that). BIG DEAL! Is that sufficient reason to ignore and even ridicule the larger, more important statements he makes --statements that simply echo growing concern through out the world about what his country is in danger of becoming?

(Aside: Although I should say that I think Heston is awesome on screen, regardless of his 'other' job.)

Why is Moore continuously being called a Communist (unless of course 'Communist' refers to what Chomsky would call anything contrary to the view of American elites)? He's only doing what any self-respecting citizen would do: say it as it is, and if you have to use some of the Weapons-of-Media-Manipulation that are usually used against him to do that, so be it. You can't say he's gone too far because a) he hasn't (not even remotely --he's only seen as radical by those who see free speech as a privilege, not a right) and b) considering who he's up against, all's fair in this game.

Besides, isn't he just conveying what a lot of us are already thinking?
Just look at 'The Patriot Act.' Even the most right-wing, pro-authoritarian, assault-rifle totting American militiaman will probably think twice before agreeing to legislation that allows authorities to go through his stuff at the slightest hunch, without even having to go through the bureaucratic niceties of informing him that it has even taken place.

Or even worse --for other countries: media manipulation has been so successful in the US that it's citizens actually approve of an illegal war --and will no doubt be 'convinced' to approve of future illegal wars to come. Granted, the only reason why Americans should be concerned with this is because of the backlash (Moore dedicates an entire chapter to just this in DWMC).

I would seem to me that Moore's activities are at least doing many (Americans at least) the favour of informing them of things that they can't get from their local media --which is what they depend on for their info. Media-distortion and humor aside, his facts are just that: facts. That alone is giving many Americans more than they get from anyone else.


P.S. When talking about a specific part of DWMC or SWM, adding quotes would be helpful to those who haven't read the books.

 

[yoshi]

Oh, and for reference (in case there's any confusion):

BFC: Bowling for Columbine

SWM: Stupid White Men

DWMC: Dude, Where's My Country?