Micro Challenge

[Doshin]

Interesting. Ok then...

Spoiler :

Difficult Mode

Size 10 by T26, but less wastage please. Build a Worker as well.

(FWIW, I'm 1 short... no idea if it's possible.)

 

[soundjata]

Sorry another question
What's the health/happy condition in Thebes?
Edit Thank you Doshin

 

[Doshin]

No problems (40+ and , or something to that effect).

 

[soundjata]

Damn got to go.
If no mistake on Excel, I can get to

Spoiler :

size 10 on turn 24, but maybe size 11 on T25 is possible?

 

[lymond]

My attempt(s)

Spoiler :

I got to Size 12 on T25 on my first attempt

My guess is 13 is the lucky number and may have something to do with optimal timing of the granary whip. I whipped at size 5, but I could have whipped at size 4.

Ofc, optimal worker management is integral to this as well.

Spoiler :

edit: Ah...looking back at the entries I see that Izuul solved this one. I think I see the one little twist that gets to size 13. I don't see a greater size than 13 happening, but kept feeling that 13 was possible when I played this out. Ofc, Kos can always surprise us with a Size 20 city

For folks not building granaries in your attempts I hope you are really seeing the power of that building with this little test. Sacrificing 2 pop early nets you 3 more pop in this timeframe.

I got to Size 13 on my second attempt by changing worker micro path, but Size 12 is my official result, unless I can somehow get to Size 14. Hats off to Izuul!

Basically in this attempt, my approach was such that no worker turn was wasted. In my first attempt I had to waste one worker turn.

Spoiler :

 

[nona_mouse]

Interesting. Ok then...

Spoiler :

Difficult Mode

Size 10 by T26, but less wastage please. Build a Worker as well.

(FWIW, I'm 1 short... no idea if it's possible.)

Spoiler :

I've spent the past couple hours attempting this. The best I've managed is 2 short, and I can't seem to be able to replicate it. >_<. Growth without a granary takes forever.

 

[Snaaty]

great idea

Spoiler :

size 13 with 22 food in the bin

research->pottery->bronze

whip gran asap when possible

1 turn rice, then pigs, finish rice, corn, 1 turn second rice, finish second pigs, finish second rice

i would be very interested in a second level of this game/execice:

how big can you grow said city up to around 1000 BC (so that you have time to finish 1 big tech) if you have the normal conditions (health normal too). leave the worker from the start, or else the first 15 turns are the same for all.

-> that would really be an interesting second installment to see, because techpath and builds become important too, not only worker and whip mm

 

[VSarius]

Assuming Normal happy levels, whoever can get the best timing on the Oracle would win, assuming this zero hammer start, overflowing warriors into the Oracle seems like it would be the way to go, revolt to HR, grow like mad.

 

[kossin]

i would be very interested in a second level of this game/execice:

how big can you grow said city up to around 1000 BC (so that you have time to finish 1 big tech) if you have the normal conditions (health normal too). leave the worker from the start, or else the first 15 turns are the same for all.

-> that would really be an interesting second installment to see, because techpath and builds become important too, not only worker and whip mm

Hmm, how about a dual installment.

A regular easy-to-solve trick for veterans (but maybe a lesson for newer members), coupled together with a more open and difficult problem?

~~~

While I'm at it... how do you guys feel about Lock Modified Assets?
My problem against it is that BUG/BULL seem to interfere
Otherwise it could be nice to enforce no peeking in worldbuilder for some of the ideas I have

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What point is there in locking assets if people can just replay it?

 

[soundjata]

Damn I got so many scenarii for SGOTM and should totally get recruited by the crew.

 

[kossin]

What point is there in locking assets if people can just replay it?

Hiding things, of course

 

[VSarius]

Hmm, how about a dual installment.

A regular easy-to-solve trick for veterans (but maybe a lesson for newer members), coupled together with a more open and difficult problem?

~~~

While I'm at it... how do you guys feel about Lock Modified Assets?
My problem against it is that BUG/BULL seem to interfere
Otherwise it could be nice to enforce no peeking in worldbuilder for some of the ideas I have

As is customary, all games must have at least 3 difficulty settings.
Normal
Hard
Nightmare
An easy to solve problem coupled with something a bit more difficult, and then a third task that is essentially impossible, but maybe someone can crack it. Doshin's second addition fits that third criteria...

 

[Shaandore]

Okay. Did this, but kind of spoiled it for myself by looking at optimum size in spoilers.
Luckily I didn't check the details, so still had something to figure out.

Spoiler :

BW first is not good because BW->Pottery comes one turn later than Pottery->BW. Granary whip timing is another thing to be careful about of course.

 

[Tall German Joe]

As is customary, all games must have at least 3 difficulty settings.
Normal
Hard
Nightmare
An easy to solve problem coupled with something a bit more difficult, and then a third task that is essentially impossible, but maybe someone can crack it. Doshin's second addition fits that third criteria...

Civ4 Nightmare! difficulty... in the tradition of Doom, a new difficulty mode above Deity where AI longbows, pikemen, and rifles have a chance to respawn after Death...

 

[kossin]

Solution​

As many of you have found out... this one's pretty easy. Solution will be linked in the first post and spoilered for future generations

Spoiler :

First, change tech order to Pottery > Bronze Working. This step is important as you need to invest at least 1 into the granary so you do not get a penalty when whipping.

Spoiler :

Second, we will attempt to improve the best food tiles first. The corn yields 6 and so does the pig. Pig takes 4 turns to pasture while corn takes 5 turns... which allows us to go after the pig first even though it is further away:

Spoiler :

Next turn, proceed to the pig and complete the pasture in 4 turns. This bring us to turn 5, and a few modifications: start a granary and emphasize food in the capital. This forces new population on the field, rather than being useless specialists!

Complete farming the rice. Even though it is a weaker tile than corn, you now have 2 turns invested into it and therefore gain more food from completing it first.

Spoiler :

The next few turns are straight forward. After the rice, farm the corn.

On turn 12, revolt to Slavery when offered; there's no reason not to do so you are Spiritual and there are no events. The capital also happens to have grown to size 4, a good time to bring out the whip on the granary. I won't go into the details of why it's better to whip this turn rather than the next one, however feel free to ask.

Spoiler :

On turn 14, you repeat the same trick you performed at the start. One turn of farming the rice then cancel. Turn 15, pasture on the pigs.

Turn 19, you go back to the rice and complete the farm. You only have to hit enter a few times now...

Spoiler :

Which allows a capital of size 13 by turn 25. If you do anything different than these actions (bar a mirror movement), you will be short a few food at size 12.

The next installment is up! I've added 3 base difficulties as suggested in this thread.

 

[VSarius]

Civ4 Nightmare! difficulty... in the tradition of Doom, a new difficulty mode above Deity where AI longbows, pikemen, and rifles have a chance to respawn after Death...

Every AI leader has benefits from all of the traits in the game. That would be fun to see.

 

[Jastrow]

Could you please elaborate on the exat timing of the granary whip. I hear references to this often, but I never quite figures it out.

 

[kossin]

Could you please elaborate on the exat timing of the granary whip. I hear references to this often, but I never quite figures it out.

1) Thread on the way granary works
2) Some technical info about Granary

The 2 post/threads aren't super important but more reference on inner workings.

The granary doubles your food output for as long as you've not filled it.

If you overfill it, the food goes to waste == don't whip the granary too early

If you underfill it, you don't get as much of the double output == don't whip too late.

Keep in mind, it only stores food after completion, not the turn where you put in the last hammer.

~~~

In the solution provided...

Spoiler :

This is the situation on T13 after whipping on T12.
Note, the granary is now complete and will store 10

10 food is stored before growth and so 10 bonus food is granted after growth...

Spoiler :

Even though the T13 whip appears to get 2 extra from the unimproved tiles, the granary is not complete and will not grant any double output this turn.

0 food is stored before growth and 0 food is granted after growth...

Spoiler :

This is a case of underfilling the granary as it completes too late to store any food. You'd be better off whipping even later.

Hence, next turn
T12 whip: 10/26F
T13 whip: 2/26F

Of course, this example was cooked so that you had to whip this turn. If the corn was a 5 tile instead, waiting a turn to whip would be better!

 

[Jastrow]

Hmmm... Reading through the tread, I guess I do not understand what a granary does... I thought it kept HALF the food stored in it.

You wrote in that thread:

Example:
City size 5
surplus = 4 food/t
Food to grow = 20+2x5 = 30

Let's start at half the food bin.
30/2 = 15
Food+surplus (+granary)

0. 15
1. 15+4 (+4)
2. 19+4 (+8)
3. 23+4 (+12)
4. 27+4 (+15!) = 16 food in the bin, size 6

But why is it not 8 food in the bin? I.e. half of the accumulated total. If it was the total food, then lets say I build it to start with zero food. It would accumulate all the food needed for growth, and keep everything, so growth to size 7 would only need to more food.

Is there a simply way to explain what exactly the granary does?