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Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (octa)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Celeborn, Oct 27, 2003.

  1. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    The original police and civil engineers come at techs, so I think ours should too...

    RRNut, very good job on the pedia texts! :D :thumbsup:
    Only one small thing, you wrote that a blinded :cool: Oliphaunt was made, and not mad. ;)
     
  2. RRnut

    RRnut Civanator

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    Ok, I proably won't get conquests until about January, so I don't really know. but should we get the updated civ citizens at later techs? just a thought. I don't think that the tech tree is advanced enough for that.

    Oh, and just ask my teacher -- I could never spell. espicially when writing very quickly :)

    RRNut
     
  3. sosco

    sosco Chieftain

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    As promised, RRnut's map with marshes and volcano (mt. doom).
    It's nice looking map, I just can't wait to play it ( with mod ).

    And also ( RRnut ), are you maybe planning to make some other version of map for midlle earth? If so, I'll be glad to help you.

    Bye

    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/midlle_earth_RRnut.zip
     
  4. PCHighway

    PCHighway Pacific Coast Highway

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    Maybe I am misunderstanding your theory here. This is mainly what I think your theory is:
    In a two player tiny map, 4billion years old, with a appearance ratio of 160, we only end up with 2 resources. Shouldn’t we have 3? If there are two players than we should get 150% resources. 2 players divided by half is 1, 1+2 is obviously 3, thus three resources?
    Using a ratio and adding the number of players we have 2/6, then 1/3. Again we end up with three resources, not two. Yet the map only generates 2.

    At the same token, the helpfile is also wrong, as I should be getting 4 resources on the map. However the helpfile states: “Appearance Ratio- Determines how many instances of the selected resource will appear in game.” Perhaps this only applies if there is some type of disappearance property, and if no disappearance probability is marked, it is simply ignored.

    But maybe if you could explain the execution of your ratio more.
    For instance, by your theory (not by testing) exactly how many iron resources should I get per player if I set the ratio at 200? How many should I get if I set it at 1? And finally, how many would I get if I set it at 900?

    Supervisor sounds a bit cheesy, too modern. In that case a ‘spy’ as suggested before would be more accurate. But I agree, we should probably keep Torturer as a scientist.

    Webpage? Were you thinking of finding one for your War Hammer mod also? You might want to talk to Celeborn about it, he may have heard of something. If not, yahoo\aol and other browsers offer stuff like that, simply pages to write fashionable html code on:).

    I also get disorganized when trying to reply to “multi-posts” so I’ll leave my praise for RRnut , and the next tab for tomorrow;).
     
  5. RRnut

    RRnut Civanator

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    Hello,

    I can wait PCH:) ;) :D :D :lol: :lol: jok.

    but thanks anyway.

    On a more serious note I was working on starting a scenario by inputting cities and stuff like that. I noted a few errors with the map, but was wondering wether you could post a copy of the most recent .bix file before you got C3C? That way I could start using the already programmed civs and units and stuff and just upda\te the thing once the mod is relased. Is this possible?

    What is the next page up for discussion?

    RRnut
     
  6. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    I have bad news :p Actually, it generates 3 correctly... in PTW, while 2 in C3C. I already wrote about this in C3C forum - it seems that they changed the formula slighly, in favor of bonus resources. You can see frustrated players complaining about it in C3C forum - the same settings for PTW will create more strategic resources than in C3C. How much more? well, a bit, though I didn't come up with proper formula for C3C yet, nor have tested it enough to say if it's random or not (I prefer to wait for new C3MT, too lazy to count).

    perhaps? I gave you a proof that the help file is wrong, gave you a working, logical theory, and you put it down by a guess? oh, c'mon. you may be guessing, but "my" pattern just works, that's the problem ;)
    you desperately add "if's" and "or's" to the poor help file, whereas it's just plain mathematical mistake - the author divided instead of multiplying...

    ratio of 1 = 2 resources on the whole map regardless of # of players
    200 = 2 resources per player
    900 = theoretically 9 per player, but I guess it will fail because there will be no room (though it may succeed as well if you "make" room by removing other resources, just guessing)

    This is valid for PTW of course, I didn't have C3C by then... so far it seems that apart from the slight change (actually *further* away from the help file) the minimum number of resources have been changed from 2 to 1.

    ummm.. .well, you see I have the one for warhammer already ;) it's up since the mod is availalble, the link is on the 1st page. I got the space from GIDustin. as for the HTML... AOL? don't insult me ;) I code for living... I even make notes in HTML instead of word/excel, that's why I proposed to make such webpage.

    For this mod I was thinking about something more "technical" than the one I made, since it could be information center for every participant. Would be divided into tabs and summing up what we have done already.
     
  7. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    If PCH can't insult you, may I do it? Pleeeeease? Ugly please with swearwords on top? ;)

    I think a webpage/html document could be good, then PCH wouldn't have to write those overviews in vB code. :)

    RRNut, I think it's too early to start adding cities... Why don't you write some more pedia texts instead? ;)
     
  8. Celeborn

    Celeborn Silver-Death

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    I already designed a website for the mod to tell the truth... (Digital Design Project) it aint on the net but i have the lay-out done and some jibbirish...

    it might need some ajustment but I like it...

    the Mordor Cop could perhaps be Overseer, or do we have that?
     
  9. RRnut

    RRnut Civanator

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    Hello,

    If you think its too early to add cities, ok,

    I'll take more pedia texts. What needs to be done?

    RRnut
     
  10. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    Overseer sounds perfect.
     
  11. Cyll

    Cyll Chieftain

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    Sounds good

    But how can you make that work ?
    Can we install such a mod and have it played under civ III?
     
  12. Coke_Cola

    Coke_Cola Chieftain

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    the mod will play under C3C.
     
  13. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    hey PCH :)
    I made some tests... actually we got the whole misunderstanding since you were using C3C and I PTW... My formula works 100% in PTW, even regardless of all terrain settings etc. because it's PTW. In C3C ... it's a long story.. but in an outcome we might end up with actually higher ratios, like you wanted :) ... why? see here.
     
  14. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Everything. ;) Maybe you can start with more resources?

    BTW I posted a cute hare/rabbit/thingy for the coney resource yesterday. (Check my sig, "My Resources")
     
  15. PCHighway

    PCHighway Pacific Coast Highway

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    Woah!:eek: Sounds great! You know what server you are going to find? They aren’t all free you know;). But regardless, I’ll be happy if it gets rid of those damn overviews:mischief:. I agree with embryodead, Overseer is good.
    You 'sound' winded on that post;).
    But seriously, I'm glad I waited to post, it could have turned out ugly if I said "oh so it 'suddenly' changed for c3c did it";). If what you say is true (which I am far more willing to accept) then should we add +20 to some of the resources(stone\timber)? Or would that be +33? I think iron is ok at 170, unless you want to go back to 180.
    I think Lux's should be random.
    I actually finished all the civilopedia entries for resources, but they would probably be better if someone went over it and made it ‘fit’ into Middle-earth.
    If your willing RRnut, I can post them resource civilopedia up.
    I remember mentioning that we should make a small Middle-earth reference section in the civilopedia. I think it would be great if we mentioned ‘historic’ battles and important events, such as Dagor Bragollach for the former, and Durin’s Bane for the latter. Where is Mithadan;)?

    Lotm Terrain
    First up, we should decide what type of terrain we want, and which ones we want to get rid of. Obviously, we will need the standards, such as Grassland, Plains, Hills, Mountains, Tundra, Coast, Sea, Ocean. That leaves us with 3 (5) we don’t need in their present form. Desert-Floodplains, Jungle, Marshes, and Volcanos.

    It has been suggested that for Desert, we should replace this with a ‘ashland’ of sorts. However, now that the mods has come more into fruition, it seems desert is necessary.

    With this out of the picture, we approached with two options. One, is to make ‘Jungle’ a type of ‘ashlands’. This makes sense to me, as Jungle is rarely in ‘little’ bursts such as desert most often is. Moreover, marshes tend to blend into Jungles, just as the Dead marshes are part of Mordor. And having a Marsh (or Fen?) In the middle of the grassland won’t look that out of place.
    Volcanos are more tricky. Ideally we want to be true to Middle-earth, these should not be generated on Random Maps, and reserved for maps of Mordor and Middle-earth. Yet the problem here is we can’t delete terrain without a hacked editor. The other option we have, is to minimize (or maximize, rather) the ‘Max Eruption Period’ and replace the Volcano graphics with that of regular mountains, and give it the same stats as mountains.

    My suggestion, would be quite different. I believe we should make marshes the ashland. I don’t think the map should contain too much of it. Moreover, this leaves jungle free. I suggest we make jungle into a ‘wilderland’, un-settable, and as mentioned earlier instead of getting ‘reduced by disease’ they would get reduced by wolves or wild animals. The graphics would look more or less like spacious grassland-like terrain, with a thicket here and there. I have made some primitive graphics for this, whether it’s used or not.
     
  16. Mithadan

    Mithadan Wandering Woodsman

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    Alberta über alles ;)
    Lurking! :cool:
     
  17. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    winded? damn you, I did my best to be clear. +20 is ok. 170 will give less Iron that in umodded PTW, though it's ok for me.

    Terrain:
    desert is a must. flood plains also, at least for gameplay purposes.
    volcanos - I think they should be in random maps. if we wan't 100% true middle-earth why are we doing random map mod at all?

    as for the graphics, we haven't even decided which set to use... and since we are having very custom terrain, I think we should go for one default set first. for sn00py's, there is a perfect wilderland (the alternative tree set, see attachment) that could replace jungles like you said. however I'd keep the swamps or marshes, they seem more important than the ashlands, which can be added as landmark easily.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. PCHighway

    PCHighway Pacific Coast Highway

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    And very good at it too! You like the civilopedia idea?
    Winded in the sense that you used lots of periods... You know... What I mean?;) j\k
    180 sounds good to me.
    Thats not exactly fair;). I could have submitted to Orcish Crossbows, or gunpowder units a long time ago too. It would make the mod much easier to make, for one. But some things just don't fit very well.
    Besides, the volcanos are very cool at first, but as time goes on and after you've seen 16 different unit types fall over, and 6 cities obliterated, then volcanos are about as cool as getting a starting location surrounded by jungle. Maybe you'll change your mind once the novelty wears off.
    If we absolutely must have volcanos, then we should lower the amount of eruptions anyway. Do you know a good pollution we could use? I'm not fond of the dead bodies, and I forgot if Mrtn made any or not:confused:.
    Err.. Thats the thing. We couldn't decide on a terrain pack in the beginning, we all wanted different types. Some wanted Warpstorms, some wanted Snoopy's, some wanted Womoks, and some wanted vanilla. In the end we decided that it would be up to the down-loader to decide. Although, if we can agree on it I think we should blend our own together.
    It's not easy for a new-comer to modding civ3 to make their own type of terrain. We should attempt to standardize it outside of the flavor editions.
    That is perfect:). All we need is someone to cut and paste it into the jungle format. About ashlands, I think we should have them in the random map. I don't see anything particularly appealing about marshes, ashland would be a nice fantasy addition.
    (Volcanos but no Ashland?;) )
     
  19. PCHighway

    PCHighway Pacific Coast Highway

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    Code:
    [b][u]Desert						Plains[/b][/u]
    Defensive Bonus: 0 (originally 10)		Defensive Bonus: 10
    Movement Cost: 2 (originally 1)		Movement Cost: 1
    Tile Values-				Tile Values-
    Food: 0					Food: 1
    Shield: 1					Shield: 1
    Commerce: 0				Commerce: 0
    Terraform Bonuses-				Terraform Bonuses-
    Irrigation: 1				Irrigation: 1	
    Mining: 1					Mining: 1
    Road: 1					Road: 1
    Other-					Other-
    Does not allow Forts.			None
    
    
    [b][u]Grassland					Tundra[/b][/u]
    Defensive Bonus: 10			Defensive Bonus:15(was 10)
    Movement Cost: 1				Movement Cost: 2
    Tile Values-				Tile Values-
    Food: 2					Food: 0 (originally 1)
    Shield: 0					Shield: 1
    Commerce: 0				Commerce: 1
    Terraform Bonuses-				Terraform Bonuses-
    Irrigation: 1				Irrigation: 0
    Mining: 1					Mining: 1
    Road: 1					Road: 1
    Other-					Other-
    None					None
    
    
    [b][u] Flood Plain					Hills[/b][/u]
    Defensive Bonus: 10					Defensive Bonus: 50
    Movement Cost: 1				Movement Cost: 2
    Tile Values-				Tile Values-
    Food: 3					Food: 1
    Shield: 0					Shield: 1	
    Commerce: 0				Commerce: 0
    Terraform Bonuses-				Terraform Bonuses-
    Irrigation: 1				Irrigation:1*(was 0)
    Mining: 0					Mining: 2
    Road: 1					Road: 1	
    Other-					Other-
    Causes Disease.				None
    Disease strength:35 (was 50).			
    Can be cured by a future tech.		
    
    [b][u] Mountains					Forest[/b][/u]
    Defensive Bonus: 100			Defensive Bonus:40(was 20)
    Movement Cost: 2				Movement Cost: 2
    Tile Values-				Tile Values-
    Food: 0					Food: 1
    Shield: 1					Shield: 2
    Commerce: 0				Commerce: 0
    Terraform Bonuses-				Terraform Bonuses-
    Irrigation: 0				Irrigation: 0
    Mining: 2					Mining: 0
    Road: 2 (originally 1)			Road: 1	
    Other-					Other-
    Does not allow cities (standard). 		None
    Impassable by wheeled units 		
    (workers are wheeled). 
     
  20. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    periods you say... well... I like them they make the post look more... clever ;)
    Volcanos - comparing volcano's to gunpowder idea is a bit extreme don't you think?. Lower eruptions would be fine.
    mrtn "wasteland" pollution is the best, it fits both volcanos and land "corruption" that could result in evil experiments, extensive mining and... stuff ;)

    Terrain sets - I think the original + Sn00py's and Warpstorm's are the only 3 options, since other creators haven't updated their sets. Sn00py's has that wildforest and we can add custom stuff to it ourselves. I have the ancient forest copy'n'pasted over jungles already for the ultra-green version though I can do it for others too. I can do ashlands also since I need them for wh-mod.
    Can we start we sn00py's then? ;) say, the normal one, unless the majority wants the greener or ultra-greener version?

    Terrains:
    Most of it is ok. Some comments though:
    - Why mountains have movement cost of 2 not 3? and why they're so good? esp. the trade?
    - Irrigation of hills - AI is the problem here - for some reason, it will only irrigate, never mine, which isn't too good setting for hills. It could have changed in C3C, but somehow I doubt it.
    - Where are the ashlands?
     

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