The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Spontaneously, I think he looks more like a Northman.
Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (XIII)
- Thread starter PCHighway
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Hey The Last Conformist, I've got something you might like 
. Check out the Information page, "Civilizations II" and tell me if I have the Noun/Adjective info right.
Notice esp. Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Angmar, and the Easterlings. Should Gondor be Gondorrim? Is the adjective for Rohan accurate? Should we put the Dúnedain name under Arnor or Númenor? Angmarians? What the hell is that? And should the singular for Easterlings be Eastron?
Also, do you have any opinions on the techs I just posted above?
. Check out the Information page, "Civilizations II" and tell me if I have the Noun/Adjective info right. Notice esp. Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Angmar, and the Easterlings. Should Gondor be Gondorrim? Is the adjective for Rohan accurate? Should we put the Dúnedain name under Arnor or Númenor? Angmarians? What the hell is that
? And should the singular for Easterlings be Eastron?Also, do you have any opinions on the techs I just posted above?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Correcting some grammatical forms, and replacing "Dunlending" with "Isengarder", which I believe we earlier agreed to do, we'd have something like this:
We did agree to use "Gondorians", so I'd say we stick to that.
I'm not entirely happy with restricting "Dúnedain" to Arnor, nor do I feel too well about using it as an adjective (a proper Sindarin adjective might be *dúnadanui), so perhaps replace it with "Arnorians", "Arnorian". These forms have, as far as I know, no authorial authority(!), but they're parallel to Gondorian, and have been used by post-Tolkien writers.
Edit: It's, BTW, inconsistent to use the definite article with "The Dwarves", but not with "Sindar", "Easterlings", and so on. I'd suggest letting the Dwarves do without.
Code:
Angmar Angmarians Angmarian
Arnor Dúnedain Dúnedain
Easterlings Easterlings Easterling
Gondor Gondorians Gondorian
Harad Southrons Southron
Isengard Isengarders Isengarder
Mordor Mordorians Mordorian
Moriquendi Moriquendi Moriquenderin
Noldor Noldor Noldorin
Northmen Northmen Northman
Númenor Númenóreans Númenórean
Rohan Rohirrim Rohirric
Sindar Sindar Sindarin
The Dwarves Dwarves Dwarven
The Shire Hobbits HobbitWe did agree to use "Gondorians", so I'd say we stick to that.
I'm not entirely happy with restricting "Dúnedain" to Arnor, nor do I feel too well about using it as an adjective (a proper Sindarin adjective might be *dúnadanui), so perhaps replace it with "Arnorians", "Arnorian". These forms have, as far as I know, no authorial authority(!), but they're parallel to Gondorian, and have been used by post-Tolkien writers.
Edit: It's, BTW, inconsistent to use the definite article with "The Dwarves", but not with "Sindar", "Easterlings", and so on. I'd suggest letting the Dwarves do without.
The Black Glove
Dunadain Ranger
I was thinking, maybe you could do several scenarios covering different periods of Middle Earth.
1. Beleriand: the fight against Morgoth
Civs:
House of Feanor,
Nargothrond
Gondolin
Doriath
Lindon
Morgoth
Dor-Lomin
House of Beor
Haladin
Easterlings
2. The Dark Years
Civs:
Numenor
The White Mountains
Mordor
Dwarves
Eregion
Lindon
Eressea
Lorien
Northmen
Druedain
3: The Last Alliance
Civs:
Lindon
Dunedain
Men of the White Mts
Mordor
Black Numenoreans
Dwarves
Northmen
4: The Third Age
Civs:
Gondor
Arnor
Lindon (includes Imladris)
Lorien
Rhovanion
Easterlings
Haradrim
Dwarves
Orcs of the Misty Mountains
Dol Guldur
Elves of Mirkwood
5: The Lord of the Rings
Civs:
Gondor
The Shire (includes Bree)
Lindon (includes Rivendell)
Lorien
Elves of Mirkwood
Mordor
Moria (orcs of the misty Mts)
Erebor
Orthanc
Rohan
Dunland
Easterlings
Harad
Just a suggestion
1. Beleriand: the fight against Morgoth
Civs:
House of Feanor,
Nargothrond
Gondolin
Doriath
Lindon
Morgoth
Dor-Lomin
House of Beor
Haladin
Easterlings
2. The Dark Years
Civs:
Numenor
The White Mountains
Mordor
Dwarves
Eregion
Lindon
Eressea
Lorien
Northmen
Druedain
3: The Last Alliance
Civs:
Lindon
Dunedain
Men of the White Mts
Mordor
Black Numenoreans
Dwarves
Northmen
4: The Third Age
Civs:
Gondor
Arnor
Lindon (includes Imladris)
Lorien
Rhovanion
Easterlings
Haradrim
Dwarves
Orcs of the Misty Mountains
Dol Guldur
Elves of Mirkwood
5: The Lord of the Rings
Civs:
Gondor
The Shire (includes Bree)
Lindon (includes Rivendell)
Lorien
Elves of Mirkwood
Mordor
Moria (orcs of the misty Mts)
Erebor
Orthanc
Rohan
Dunland
Easterlings
Harad
Just a suggestion
![[Ant]Wimp](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/35/35417.jpg?1475248323){kind=avatar}
[Ant]Wimp
Warlord
Fishing as a free tech for the Southrons??
And Id not use 'mordorian' (I believe we've allready discussed though). Id go for Mordor as in 'a mordor orc'. But wait, it will can't be 'the mordor are attacking'...
Im confused. Can a native english speaker help me out plz?
And Id not use 'mordorian' (I believe we've allready discussed though). Id go for Mordor as in 'a mordor orc'. But wait, it will can't be 'the mordor are attacking'...
Im confused. Can a native english speaker help me out plz?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
@The Black Glove: Scenarios are planned for after the Epic mod is up and running.
@[Ant]Wimp: I personally dislike that kind of nominal compounds (and note that the Professor did not use them much - they're a diachronically recentish development in English, and have become more common since LotR was written). We've indeed already discussed the issue, and if memory serves "Mordorian" was the consensus. As you note, simply "Mordor" won't work well for the noun.
Cute avatar, BTW.
@[Ant]Wimp: I personally dislike that kind of nominal compounds (and note that the Professor did not use them much - they're a diachronically recentish development in English, and have become more common since LotR was written). We've indeed already discussed the issue, and if memory serves "Mordorian" was the consensus. As you note, simply "Mordor" won't work well for the noun.
Cute avatar, BTW.
Much thanks, The Last Conformist 
Made all the changes you suggested to both the .biq and the website. Sure thing with "The Dwarves."
So in the end all I can do is set the different civilizations on paths. Since Harad is famous for their navy, I started them out with a naval technology. I tried to do the same with the others.
Made all the changes you suggested to both the .biq and the website. Sure thing with "The Dwarves."
Yeah, they were one of the tricky civilizations. I decided it would be unfair to give a civilization a technology that was not restricted tot he starting 6 techs. This brought up problems, however, as there is virtually no technology in the beginning that would be considered a war-oriented one.[Ant]Wimp said:
So in the end all I can do is set the different civilizations on paths. Since Harad is famous for their navy, I started them out with a naval technology. I tried to do the same with the others.
AlcTrv
Only goes to one thread.
I always wanted "Creatures of Mordor" or something to that effect, but I bowed before common opinion. I don't like the sound of it, but hey, I can just edit in my version, right?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
You could, but I'm not positive you can use names that long.
RRnut, we have to look at what Mining does. It gives the civs access to gold, salt, gems, and silver. Where-as The Dwarves unquestionably should get that, as should the Noldor, I don't see Mordor having a great need to have that from the start. Yet Morgoth was constructing large fortresses before the first age of the sun. (Masonry)
AlcTrv, are you talking about the barbarians?
* RAA = Ranged Attack Animation
* RBA = Rotate Before Attack
* TOF = Transports Only Foot-units
Ok, I think it is time we refine the Naval Units. These are already added to the MOD, but I want some opinions on them. Last time this was brought up, virtually only 1 post in reply was made to them.
Mrtn was telling me earlier that the AI won't use ships with a transport of 1 to transport settlers. The idea of giving warships a transport capacity of 1 is not so the Human can transport settlers. It is so all civilizations can transport combat units in their warships. But since the AI couldn't utilize this, we came up with the idea to not flag settlers as foot-units, and then give the warships the "Transports Only Foot-units" flag.
Secondly, these are the aggression levels, anyone have any problems with them, or suggestions?
AlcTrv, are you talking about the barbarians?
Code:
[b][u]Unit Name[/u] [u]A.D.M[/u] [u]Era[/u] [u]UU?[/u] [u]Transport/Warship?[/u] [u]Trans.Cap[/u] [u]Upgrade[/u] [u]Special[/u][/b] [u]
[color=red]Boat\Knarr(?) - 2.2.2 0 no N\A 1 Ship RAA* RBA*[/color]
[color=blue]Merchant Ship - 2.3.3 1 no Transport 2 Trade Cog RAA RBA[/color]
[color=red]Galley - 3.4.4 2 no Transport 3 Barge RAA RBA[/color]
[color=blue]Barge - 4.6.5 3 no Transport 4 Galley RAA RBA[/color]
[color=red]Trade Cog - 5.8.6 4 no Transport 6 NOUP RAA RBA[/color]
[color=blue]Ship - 4.2.3 1 no Warship 0 Longship RAA RBA[/color]
[color=red]War Galley - 6.4.4 2 no Warship 0 Warship RAA RBA[/color]
[color=blue]Warship - 8.6.5 3 no Warship 1 War Galley RAA RBA TOF*[/color]
[color=red]Longship - 10.8.6 4 no Warship 2 NOUP RAA RBA TOF[/color]
[color=blue]Númenórean Warship 7.5.4 2.5 yes Warship 1 Warship RAA RBA TOF[/color]
[color=red]Númenórean Pirate 6.4.4 2 flavor Warship 1 Raider RAA RBA TOF[/color]
[color=blue]Corsair Raider 9.6.5 3 flavor Warship 1 Umbar RAA RBA TOF[/color]
[color=red]Corsair of Umbar 11.8.6 4 flavor Warship 2 NOUP RAA RBA TOF[/u][/color]* RBA = Rotate Before Attack
* TOF = Transports Only Foot-units
Ok, I think it is time we refine the Naval Units. These are already added to the MOD, but I want some opinions on them. Last time this was brought up, virtually only 1 post in reply was made to them.
Mrtn was telling me earlier that the AI won't use ships with a transport of 1 to transport settlers. The idea of giving warships a transport capacity of 1 is not so the Human can transport settlers. It is so all civilizations can transport combat units in their warships. But since the AI couldn't utilize this, we came up with the idea to not flag settlers as foot-units, and then give the warships the "Transports Only Foot-units" flag.
Secondly, these are the aggression levels, anyone have any problems with them, or suggestions?
Code:
[u]
Angmar 5
Arnor 3
Easterlings 5
Gondor 3
Harad 4
Isengard 4
Mordor 5
Moriquendi 2
Noldor 4
Northmen 3
Númenor 4
Rohan 3
Sindar 2
Dwarves 3
The Shire 1
[/u]
I have to disagree with you on the strengths of the Numenorean Warship versus the Corsair ship. The Numenoreans, despite never having a war, were always the best at building ships. If you've ever read UT (Unfinished Tales), then you know of some of these, including probably the greatest: ships that could fly! 
I highly doubt any ship in ME could best them until the invention of cannons.
I highly doubt any ship in ME could best them until the invention of cannons.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I too think the Númenórean Warship looks a bit weak. And what is an Númenórean Pirate?
Having a transport cap of one on the Knarr is probably a bad idea, particularly as it apparently can transport settlers. Drop it to make it a pure explorer, or up it to two.
Having a transport cap of one on the Knarr is probably a bad idea, particularly as it apparently can transport settlers. Drop it to make it a pure explorer, or up it to two.
In Civ3 gameplay context, it would be catastrophic to give Númenor units in the second era that would still remain the best naval units at the end of the MOD. The Númenóreans did engage in the wars of the Elves and Sauron, unless I am much mistaken. I've read the Unfinished Tales a couple of times, and never ran across a ship that can fly. Unless you mean Vingilot, which can't be considered a Númenor ship and really has no place in the MOD. I seem to remember another mention of a flying ship, but it was considered to be a "legend" in ME.Noldodan said:I have to disagree with you on the strengths of the Numenorean Warship versus the Corsair ship. The Numenoreans, despite never having a war, were always the best at building ships. If you've ever read UT (Unfinished Tales), then you know of some of these, including probably the greatest: ships that could fly!
I think we can solve the problem by making the Warship appear at the start of the 2nd age.
The three flavor ships all belong to Harad, as agreed on earlier. It represents the Black Númenóreans of Umbar becoming the Corsairs of Umbar.The Last Conformist said:
Knarr: Nah, we'll just add "Transports Only Foot-units" to that as well, problem solved'
. It is important that you can load a combat unit onto the ship, and then use it to get off at islands and explore them on the ground.I had another idea. Would not checking all swordsman and spearman as foot units, be a good idea? Then only archers could load onto warships, or any other ship that has "Transports Only Foot-units."
X*
StarTraveller
Chieftain
It's been a while since I posted anything, but suddenly I got very busy with the non-gaming part of my life 
.
Anyway, just dropping in to let you know that I still follow the great work you do even if I don't have time to post much. This post is mostly a kind of a pad on the back for all of your efforts.
Keep it up!
.Anyway, just dropping in to let you know that I still follow the great work you do even if I don't have time to post much. This post is mostly a kind of a pad on the back for all of your efforts
.Keep it up!
Yrgsoth
Chieftain
StarTraveller said:It's been a while since I posted anything, but suddenly I got very busy with the non-gaming part of my life
Anyway, just dropping in to let you know that I still follow the great work you do even if I don't have time to post much. This post is mostly a kind of a pad on the back for all of your efforts
Keep it up!
My sentiments expressed perfectly!
I live in hope that I will one day have something to contribute to this fine piece of work.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
@PCH: There's mention of flying Númenórean ships in The Lost Road - that might be what Noldodan is thinking of. I'm pretty sure they're not mentioned in UT, since CJRT says in TLR that as far as he knows, it is the only mention of flying machines in his father's work.
Couldn't the Númenórean Warship have the stats of the reg'lar Warship, but replace both it and the War Galley? That way, it would be dominant in the 2nd Era - Númenóre's golden era - and leave the Númenóreans on pair with the rest for the rest of the game.
Archers only on warships might be interesting. Do we have any units with amphibious assault? I'm reminded of the TAM solution that the archer line has it, while the heavy infantry an defense lines have not ...
Couldn't the Númenórean Warship have the stats of the reg'lar Warship, but replace both it and the War Galley? That way, it would be dominant in the 2nd Era - Númenóre's golden era - and leave the Númenóreans on pair with the rest for the rest of the game.
Archers only on warships might be interesting. Do we have any units with amphibious assault? I'm reminded of the TAM solution that the archer line has it, while the heavy infantry an defense lines have not ...
The Last Conformist, regarding TAM and archers, I'm not sure if we should make them all amphibious. I can't really think of any way we can incorporate amphibious units in any other special way, however. We haven't given it much thought. The only thing I can thing of, is to make it a civ specific bonus for Númenor. All units could be amphibious after the second era.
Regarding the UU: Are you really sure a unit should get copious attack and defense bonuses? What other UU has so much improvement, that it can last two entire eras?
Regarding the UU: Are you really sure a unit should get copious attack and defense bonuses? What other UU has so much improvement, that it can last two entire eras?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
In LotR? No unit I can think of offhand. In the Epic game? Numidians are better than Pikemen, that come an entire era later.
And it's not very big bonuses over the War Galley we're speaking of; +33% attack, +50% defense, and +25% movement. Since it's presumably also is going to be more expensive, I don't think that it will make Númenor too powerful, esp since sea power isn't that important in CivIII. I don't think it would wreck game balance.
And it's not very big bonuses over the War Galley we're speaking of; +33% attack, +50% defense, and +25% movement. Since it's presumably also is going to be more expensive, I don't think that it will make Númenor too powerful, esp since sea power isn't that important in CivIII. I don't think it would wreck game balance.
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