Middle-earth Mod

[BTS] Middle-earth Mod 0.4.1

@Autumn Leaf - Here are some of my thoughts from before. This is the overarching idea - "I don't want to make the mod so complicated though, that you lose the idea of Civ".

Hope that gives you some insight into my philosophy and goal for the mod.

Good point. However, I do want the evil civilizations to be mostly united, and make the Free Peoples to have to spend time convincing their neighbors to help them. It seems more in line with the general idea, although I liked Garrison's idea of a way to spend a GP to gain diplo points. I'll have to work out the details, but I agree, no diplomatic bonus for religion.

I'm actually wanting to downplay religions; but certain places in Middle-earth did have culture based on the belief system.
I would not term it polytheistic though. Even if (like in Aman) the cultures were dedicated to different Valar, they were not when they went to Middle-earth. The Valar became less and less involved personally, and more distant. However, worship of either Eru or Melkor continued in Middle-earth, at the Temple, Meneltarma, the Hill of Awe, etc.
So, perhaps natural wonders would work better, such as the Falls of Rauros giving a bonus in culture, or such.

I don't want to make the mod so complicated though, that you lose the idea of Civ. It's a hard balance...
 
If you do think certain things should be different about religions, make a modmod. That would be awesome.

LOL, my thought exactly. I was looking at merging relvant bits of your mod (map/artwork etc) with RFC concepts stolen from Sword of Islam, such as the province/region system. ME has an extensive set of regions that would need only minor tweaking to work with the SoI engine and I like the way it handles spawns, rebirths and extinctions. However, I am still very much a beginner at modding BtS so I would't expect anything playable for a long time, if ever.

- Being able to sail up part of the Anduin River.

Looking forward to seeing that. Did you do it by adding Coast a la your poriginal version of the map, or did you create a new terrain type? In the map where I added Numenor I converted part of Anduin to Coast but it didn't look or work right. I was thinking it needs a new terrain feature ("GREAT_RIVER"?) that looks like a wider River, acts like a River for Irrigation, can be sailed on by ships, but cannot be crossed on foot. That implies a new Improvement - a Bridge - and/or a second new terrain ("FORD"? "SHALLOWS"?) to make certain sections crossable.
 
LOL, my thought exactly. I was looking at merging relvant bits of your mod (map/artwork etc) with RFC concepts stolen from Sword of Islam, such as the province/region system. ME has an extensive set of regions that would need only minor tweaking to work with the SoI engine and I like the way it handles spawns, rebirths and extinctions. However, I am still very much a beginner at modding BtS so I would't expect anything playable for a long time, if ever.
Do it. I will try to help you by pointing to tutorials, answer questions, etc. If you create something I like, I can borrow, etc and vice versa. Start small and expand your mission.

I will be adding a region system, however, that will be editable via Worldbuilder files and XML, but I have to get good at DLL/C++ first. :)

Looking forward to seeing that. Did you do it by adding Coast a la your poriginal version of the map, or did you create a new terrain type? In the map where I added Numenor I converted part of Anduin to Coast but it didn't look or work right. I was thinking it needs a new terrain feature ("GREAT_RIVER"?) that looks like a wider River, acts like a River for Irrigation, can be sailed on by ships, but cannot be crossed on foot. That implies a new Improvement - a Bridge - and/or a second new terrain ("FORD"? "SHALLOWS"?) to make certain sections crossable.
Coasts for now, but I am going to do exactly what you are talking about with terrains and features in the future. :D
 
Congrats on the mod move!

I actually had a play with the Terrain Features XML to add Great Rivers based on Coast tiles (I was envisaging a Great River occupying a full tile - it would enhance several rivers on the map, not just Anduin) but after encountering a couple of interesting CTDs :nono: during loading I investigated stealing hints from the Strategic Rivers Mod instead because a key feature I was looking for was having the Great River tile supply Fresh Water to adjacent tiles (<bAddsFreshWater>1</bAddsFreshWater>) the way an Oasis does but Coast does not, yet be uncrossable and navigable like Coast. The SR Mod has navigable Rivers.

However I believe the SR Mod did it all via the DLL (he seems to have subsumed all the Python scripts into it as well; his DLL is 14 MiB vs. a typical 4 MiB and includes a lot of Python wrappers) but also set all rivers to uncrossable without a specific technology or plot improvement/feature (e.g. "isRiverCrossing" on adjacent tiles). Such a Great River solution might require implementing a second type of River since I at least wouldn't want all rivers to become uncrossable.
 
I you are going to stick with my Values idea than I think there is room and need for one more:

Power:
Since there are no more great people left either have to introduce a new one / change Priest / Great Prophet OR give it to Sauron right from the start and allow to corrupt others.
I've got no ideas currently for buildings but they should be about war (war weariness, military unit production).


Diplomatic relations:


I think a simple diagram can it the best.
  • Civs with the same Value get diplo bonus
  • Civs with the Value next to theirs get no diplo modifier
  • Civs with any other Value get a small diplo penalty
upload_2018-7-3_11-7-51.png

What do you think?
 
I you are going to stick with my Values idea than I think there is room and need for one more:

Power:
Since there are no more great people left either have to introduce a new one / change Priest / Great Prophet OR give it to Sauron right from the start and allow to corrupt others.
I've got no ideas currently for buildings but they should be about war (war weariness, military unit production).


Diplomatic relations:


I think a simple diagram can it the best.
  • Civs with the same Value get diplo bonus
  • Civs with the Value next to theirs get no diplo modifier
  • Civs with any other Value get a small diplo penalty
View attachment 499143
What do you think?

Interesting. Let me think about it. To do so would require a DLL change. If there is a value penalty, it will be negligible. -2 at most. :think:
Congrats on the mod move!

I actually had a play with the Terrain Features XML to add Great Rivers based on Coast tiles (I was envisaging a Great River occupying a full tile - it would enhance several rivers on the map, not just Anduin) but after encountering a couple of interesting CTDs :nono: during loading I investigated stealing hints from the Strategic Rivers Mod instead because a key feature I was looking for was having the Great River tile supply Fresh Water to adjacent tiles (<bAddsFreshWater>1</bAddsFreshWater>) the way an Oasis does but Coast does not, yet be uncrossable and navigable like Coast. The SR Mod has navigable Rivers.

However I believe the SR Mod did it all via the DLL (he seems to have subsumed all the Python scripts into it as well; his DLL is 14 MiB vs. a typical 4 MiB and includes a lot of Python wrappers) but also set all rivers to uncrossable without a specific technology or plot improvement/feature (e.g. "isRiverCrossing" on adjacent tiles). Such a Great River solution might require implementing a second type of River since I at least wouldn't want all rivers to become uncrossable.
Yes, I think we would need a second type of river. I will have to look into it. I found an interesting solution from long ago that might work. I will investigate it.

Were the CTD's from your additions?
 
Interesting. Let me think about it. To do so would require a DLL change.
Give him a UB palace spreading Power.*
BTW I think it would be great if civs had more UUs and UBs, say 2-2.

*EDIT: You are probably talking about the penalties not starting with Power, right? :crazyeye:
 
Give him a UB palace spreading Power.*
BTW I think it would be great if civs had more UUs and UBs, say 2-2.
I have plans for more UU's and UB's, but that is low priority vs. more techs, more regular buildings, etc. :)

*EDIT: You are probably talking about the penalties not starting with Power, right? :crazyeye:
Yes. :lol:

I thought of something though. We may be able to use XML to give only Value bonuses and not diplo hits. :think:
 
Ok i've made my Endless Stairs model. Here's the link for dds/nif files:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e2kdnaqeyobs0rz/AAAHv4ZVBeSfiT7LEXBe-Ehda?dl=0

If you two, @topsecret or @Zeta Nexus, have still intention to find a way to make this model interact with peaks, you're welcome. I'll try by myself either, but i'm also working around a B-plan, in case it's complicate/doesn't work.

Also, I'll start working soon on Barad Dur model. I've already have to advice you @topsecret, that will be necessary to lower Orthanc height, for Barad Dur is larger, and to make it taller (as it is), the whole city would be covered :eek:

Friendly reminder: if someone does know how to make Leaderheads, I would kindly remind that Elizabeth LH is taken from Kate Blanchett's Elizabeth. Coincidence: also Galadriel is played by KB. Just change her dress + make her blonde and its finished lol

Nice to hear all of these news, by the way! Hope plenty heroes would response to Gondor's call for aid
 
Ok i've made my Endless Stairs model. Here's the link for dds/nif files:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e2kdnaqeyobs0rz/AAAHv4ZVBeSfiT7LEXBe-Ehda?dl=0

If you two, @topsecret or @Zeta Nexus, have still intention to find a way to make this model interact with peaks, you're welcome. I'll try by myself either, but i'm also working around a B-plan, in case it's complicate/doesn't work.

Also, I'll start working soon on Barad Dur model. I've already have to advice you @topsecret, that will be necessary to lower Orthanc height, for Barad Dur is larger, and to make it taller (as it is), the whole city would be covered :eek:

Friendly reminder: if someone does know how to make Leaderheads, I would kindly remind that Elizabeth LH is taken from Kate Blanchett's Elizabeth. Coincidence: also Galadriel is played by KB. Just change her dress + make her blonde and its finished lol

Nice to hear all of these news, by the way! Hope plenty heroes would response to Gondor's call for aid

:clap: A new model. I shall put it in soon! Not sure how we can put it in a peak... unless...

I have an idea I will work on that does not need DLL. If you like it, we will use it that way. :)

I don't know how to make leaderheads. :sad:

I will lower Orthanc. No worries. ;)
 
Were the CTD's from your additions?

Yeah, I was impatient to see the result and did a half-arsed job with the xml. Wasn't implying a fault in your map.

In... ter... est... ing :cringe: :)
Looks a little strange to see streams on the sides of a river :lol:

topsecret's effort got the exact irrigation effect I was after, but as you say the rivers look Ugly AF. My own effort basically tried to combine Coast with the Oasis <bAddsFreshWater>1</bAddsFreshWater>) attribute that invisibly spreads fresh water to surrounding tiles. I'm inclined to try again sometime and make sure I update relevant entries in every xml that could possibly be involved. I'm not sure what I missed but I have logging enabled. I forgot to check the logs yesterday and the logs folder has been cleaned up since then but if I get a CTD next time I'll check the logs before I restart BtS

I think topsecret's ford looks good for a first draft. A terrain like that could pay big dividends later on if people start building battle scenarios - such as the battle for the fords.
 
Yeah, I was impatient to see the result and did a half-arsed job with the xml. Wasn't implying a fault in your map.



topsecret's effort got the exact irrigation effect I was after, but as you say the rivers look Ugly AF. My own effort basically tried to combine Coast with the Oasis <bAddsFreshWater>1</bAddsFreshWater>) attribute that invisibly spreads fresh water to surrounding tiles. I'm inclined to try again sometime and make sure I update relevant entries in every xml that could possibly be involved. I'm not sure what I missed but I have logging enabled. I forgot to check the logs yesterday and the logs folder has been cleaned up since then but if I get a CTD next time I'll check the logs before I restart BtS

I think topsecret's ford looks good for a first draft. A terrain like that could pay big dividends later on if people start building battle scenarios - such as the battle for the fords.
It looks decent but it doesn't work. I can't get it to let both land and sea by without some coding.

I am gonna have to code it to make it work. ;)
 
If you can even make the river bed a little narrower (compared to a 1 tile coast) than it would be perfect.
Please also publish it as a Mod component so other mods shall use it too.

That's gonna be difficult. Right now, I'm just using coast. I don't know how to edit terrain so it meshes with other terrain. :dunno:

That doesn't mean I won't try. :D
 
If you can even make the river bed a little narrower (compared to a 1 tile coast) than it would be perfect.
Please also publish it as a Mod component so other mods shall use it too.
Yeah, I don't even see a place for a NIF in CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain. I don't know how it is doing it. :crazyeye:
 
Okay.
And perhaps you should also think of coding Bridge as a special route buildable only on water.
I intended to keep normal rivers, but I could add a bridge route buildable for Fords I suppose. :)
 
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