Missing Civs Poll

[Wingednosering]

Carthage was a Phoenician colony in modern day Tunisia; the Phoenicians were from coastal Lebanon. My point was that Carthage may not be very African, but it's certainly not European, either.

Ah. I would be more pleased with Phoenicia for that very reason (plus sort of being a newcomer). Carthage as a civ is definitely African to me though. It specifically means that African portion of a once larger empire.

 

[Zaarin]

Ah. I would be more pleased with Phoenicia for that very reason (plus sort of being a newcomer). Carthage as a civ is definitely African to me though. It specifically means that African portion of a once larger empire.

Tyre and Sidon never had empires, though. They were the very definition of city-states. Also they lack leaders who are more than names engraved in stone. Carthage controlled the Western Mediterranean when Rome was in its infancy, to say nothing of exploring the Atlantic coast of Africa as far as Gabon and trading as far away as Scandinavia. When it comes to whether to include Phoenicia or Carthage, there's no question in my mind that Carthage is infinitely the more worthy and interesting of the two. Also it has lots of great leaders to choose from, which Phoenicia, again, doesn't. Also NB that Carthage wasn't simply an African empire; it also held land in Cyprus, Sicily, and Iberia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While Carthage is deserving, I dislike their inclusion simply because they take an 'African' spot for a very European feeling civ. If we only get 5 african civs, I'd rather get a west african or madagascar civ in their place (or Morocco).

They are an all around the world Civ. A.k.a the Mediterranean World. I certainly hope we will get more than 5 African Civs, if your counting Egypt as part of that group.

 

[Ornen]

Replace the Huns with the much-better-attested Goths. The Goths were far more significant in Rome's downfall (and in laying the foundation for France, Spain, Portugal, and Medieval/Renaissance Italy), and they have excellent leader choices like Theodoric and Alaric.

Plus, they're a very easy civ to figure out on the prep/goth spectrum

(on my mind since I saw this earlier today. seems pretty accurate actually)

 

[Wingednosering]

They are an all around the world Civ. A.k.a the Mediterranean World. I certainly hope we will get more than 5 African Civs, if your counting Egypt as part of that group.

I am, but 5 seems likely. Egypt, Kongo, Nubia, Zulu and probably one more in another expansion. Maybe one extra for 6. I assume West Africa and Ethiopia will take those slots.

For clarification, the reason I described Carthage as 'more European' is simply because of their culture, location and interactions with Rome. They feel far more culturally and historically like ancient Europe than say, Kongo. I generally wish for more sub saharan civs as that feels more diverse and underrepresented in the media.

It isn't based on any hard facts, just purely my preference. If we get 5-6 african civs, I'd rather not have Carthage. I can think of a whole bunch I'd want before them. They might be 10th on my list.

 

[Greywulf]

Plus, they're a very easy civ to figure out on the prep/goth spectrum

(on my mind since I saw this earlier today. seems pretty accurate actually)

Wouldn't the opposite of Prep be Indie or Hipster, and the opposite of Goth be Clown or something?

 

[nzcamel]

Isn't that what they were in Civ 5?

I think playing as the barbs was a scenario in IV from memory...?

I think it’s too much to ask for Firaxis to switch up their definition of a civilisation at this point.

Maybe we’ll get lucky with Civ 7 and they’ll finally acknowledge that nomadic civilisation at a massive thing in human history, created the biggest empire in human history, and are a viable alternate style of gameplay that should be represented. Or maybe we won’t

Not even sure if I’d call it lucky at this point. I wouldn’t trust Firaxis to balance a kilo of milk with a kilo of flour, so the less variables the better going forward

That does sound interesting; but it may be stretching what this game is capable of beyond what would be good for it.

 

[clapyourhands]

Plus, they're a very easy civ to figure out on the prep/goth spectrum

(on my mind since I saw this earlier today. seems pretty accurate actually)

This chart actually lines up quite well with the Civ VI victory types, and indeed I think that was the point (not lining up to civ, but to the scientific/cultural/militaristic/religious aspects of civilization).

Nerdy and Jock are obvious, nerdy being academic/scientific and jock being militaristic.

Preppy, at least how it's used where I am, refers to a student that's involved in lots of orgs and especially student government. So that'd be a civics and government/cultural civ.

Goth would be the nonconformists with occult-ish beliefs, corresponding to a religious civ.

So Athens would be very preppy and nerdy, or an academically-oriented civ with a developed civics/government, for instance.

 

[Martinus]

Voted:

Babylon, because it is one of the greatest ancient civilizations that influenced religion and science immensely
Byzantium, because it was the largest Christian empire
Carthage, because it makes a great rival to Rome
Celts, because they need to be represented as a culture (but if they go with a "country" rather than "culture", as they did with Norway, I'd rather see an Irish civilization than a Gaul civilization)
Inca and Maya, because they are two great missing American civs
Mali, because of all African civs, they are the one most deserving to be in
Ottoman Turks, because they had the largest Muslim empire post Mongols
Portugal, because they had a large trading empire and so many great explorers
Siam, because they are a major South East Asian civilization

 

[Metecury]

The Ottomans are a must, so the Mayans and Incas. Personally I do not care much which African civ between Ethiopia, Mali and Ghana they put in as long as they put one of them in. What I really want to see which I believe to be way overdue is Italy, it's a bout time we get it represented the same way Germany and Greece are instead of one specific state or city-state.

 

[The Kingmaker]

And unsurprisingly, the civs that have breached a hundred votes are Babylon, Byzantium, Carthage, Ethiopia, Inca, Mali, Maya, Ottoman Turks and Portugal.

The people want their classics back, Firaxis.

 

[pgm123]

Where I most agree with the consensus:

1. Inca - largest empire in the Western Hemisphere before 1492. Sophisticated administrative system and network of roads.
2. Ottoman - A super power, to a great power, to a middle power, but always important. Conquered and defeated Rome.
3. Mali - I think they're more interesting than Songhai, but the Trans-Sahara/Sahel need representation.
4. Babylon - Honestly, the inclusion of Sumer is disappointing. Babylon had such a dominant presence in the region, influencing science, culture, religion as far as Greece. I would go with a Chaldean, but an Amorite is fine as well.
5. Portugal - Brazil is in the game. Portugal offers more, but this is the main reason why it is a shame if it's never included.
6. Ethiopia - Important power in East Africa. I'm glad we got Nubia, but Axum was a major player in Indian Ocean trade and its culture was really cool.

Where I most disagree (my omissions):

1. Maya - Truthfully, I just didn't see it. But you could make the case that (1) they weren't unified and (2) there are other Mesoamerican cultures that could be used to replace them. I'd still have the Maya, though, possibly in my top-10.
2. Byzantium - I am ok with Byzantium being its own civilization. But I would not be upset if they were just modified Rome. But Alexander getting his own civ makes me lean towards the former. Still not a top-10 choice for me.
3. Carthage - I'd like Carthage, though I'm against Hannibal being the leader. Still, I think Carthage is just treated as Hannibal's Army of the Second Punic War, even with Dido as the leader. I wouldn't be opposed to either Carthage or Phoenicia, but not top-10.

Where I most disagree (my inclusions):

1. Hatti - I assume from the poll that this can include the Hittites instead, because that's who I want. The late Bronze Age is woefully under-represented. You could go with the Mittani or Hurians, but I'd like Luwian representation.
2. Austria - I'll admit a special kind of agenda here. I'd like a Diplomatic Victory and I'd like Metternich as Austria's leader, similar to Bismarck for Germany (you could add him as well). Add Napoleon, Metternich, and Bismarck to flesh out 19th Century Europe.
3. Iroquois - The fact that this is 13th in voting shocks me. Iroquois are a mandatory civ for me. They were a Major Power in the North American continent, on par with the English, French, and Dutch. They were still a Minor Power by the time the United States formed, but they were fairly dependent on the British at that point. Nevertheless, not including them in the game seems wrong. They were my third vote behind the Inca and Ottomans.
4. Assyria - The major empire of the early iron age. Destroyed Israel (left Judah a vassal). Conquered Egypt. Conquered Babylon. Conquered the Phoenician City States. Conquered Elam. Maybe it's one dimensional, but I still want. Ability - razing a city distributes its population throughout the empire (or something).

 

[The Kingmaker]

Where I most agree with the consensus:

1. Inca - largest empire in the Western Hemisphere before 1492. Sophisticated administrative system and network of roads.
2. Ottoman - A super power, to a great power, to a middle power, but always important. Conquered and defeated Rome.
3. Mali - I think they're more interesting than Songhai, but the Trans-Sahara/Sahel need representation.
4. Babylon - Honestly, the inclusion of Sumer is disappointing. Babylon had such a dominant presence in the region, influencing science, culture, religion as far as Greece. I would go with a Chaldean, but an Amorite is fine as well.
5. Portugal - Brazil is in the game. Portugal offers more, but this is the main reason why it is a shame if it's never included.
6. Ethiopia - Important power in East Africa. I'm glad we got Nubia, but Axum was a major player in Indian Ocean trade and its culture was really cool.

Where I most disagree (my omissions):

1. Maya - Truthfully, I just didn't see it. But you could make the case that (1) they weren't unified and (2) there are other Mesoamerican cultures that could be used to replace them. I'd still have the Maya, though, possibly in my top-10.
2. Byzantium - I am ok with Byzantium being its own civilization. But I would not be upset if they were just modified Rome. But Alexander getting his own civ makes me lean towards the former. Still not a top-10 choice for me.
3. Carthage - I'd like Carthage, though I'm against Hannibal being the leader. Still, I think Carthage is just treated as Hannibal's Army of the Second Punic War, even with Dido as the leader. I wouldn't be opposed to either Carthage or Phoenicia, but not top-10.

Where I most disagree (my inclusions):

1. Hatti - I assume from the poll that this can include the Hittites instead, because that's who I want. The late Bronze Age is woefully under-represented. You could go with the Mittani or Hurians, but I'd like Luwian representation.
2. Austria - I'll admit a special kind of agenda here. I'd like a Diplomatic Victory and I'd like Metternich as Austria's leader, similar to Bismarck for Germany (you could add him as well). Add Napoleon, Metternich, and Bismarck to flesh out 19th Century Europe.
3. Iroquois - The fact that this is 13th in voting shocks me. Iroquois are a mandatory civ for me. They were a Major Power in the North American continent, on par with the English, French, and Dutch. They were still a Minor Power by the time the United States formed, but they were fairly dependent on the British at that point. Nevertheless, not including them in the game seems wrong. They were my third vote behind the Inca and Ottomans.
4. Assyria - The major empire of the early iron age. Destroyed Israel (left Judah a vassal). Conquered Egypt. Conquered Babylon. Conquered the Phoenician City States. Conquered Elam. Maybe it's one dimensional, but I still want. Ability - razing a city distributes its population throughout the empire (or something).

As has been discussed above, Hatti is the name of the Hittite kingdom. We've got a discussion thread for them in the Ideas forum.

 

[Martinus]

For the record, I am actually fine with Byzantium being represented as "Rome" with a capital in Constantinople and led by either Constantine or Justinian.

The Byzantine empire continued with having good trade and road network, and baths were an even greater thing in Constantinople than they were in ancient Rome - so that would fit. The leader UA could be something related to religion.

 

[Havendish]

I agree with the above (created by pgm123) post about the need to finally introduce a Luwian/Anatolian Civilization to the Civ series.

My strong suggestion is: LYDIA.
At the peak of its power Lydia was a vast empire. Check out its history. Coinage was invented there. Famed Horsemen - Cavalry, fought in formation, also known for excellent archers. Great Kings, confirmed by history, including CROESUS and ALYATTES. Influential culture, famous capital city of SARDIS. 2 of the 7 Great Wonders of the Ancient Era were built there; Temple of Artemis and Mausoleum of Mausolus.
Lydia should be an Economic/Financial powerhouse (expert miners), while also offering a good possibiity of a Cultural or Domination victory.
Please Firaxis, realize this is a great potential civ, more than deserving to finally appear in the game!

I'd like to see a Poll with Civs that have never before appeared in Civ, the ones the players would like to be included in. (with 10 votes available, like here)
I'll create my own list later today, perhaps someone will crate a new thread?

 

[The Kingmaker]

I agree with the above (created by pgm123) post about the need to finally introduce a Luwian/Anatolian Civilization to the Civ series.

My strong suggestion is: LYDIA.
At the peak of its power Lydia was a vast empire. Check out its history. Coinage was invented there. Famed Horsemen - Cavalry, fought in formation, also known for excellent archers. Great Kings, confirmed by history, including CROESUS and ALYATTES. Influential culture, famous capital city of SARDIS. 2 of the 7 Great Wonders of the Ancient Era were built there; Temple of Artemis and Mausoleum of Mausolus.
Lydia should be an Economic/Financial powerhouse (expert miners), while also offering a good possibiity of a Cultural or Domination victory.
Please Firaxis, realize this is a great potential civ, more than deserving to finally appear in the game!

I'd like to see a Poll with Civs that have never before appeared in Civ, the ones the players would like to be included in. (with 10 votes available, like here)
I'll create my own list later today, perhaps someone will crate a new thread?

I've been planning on it. Wanted this one to reach fruition first.

 

[Nurse Michael]

I picked 9 which I liked to see again:
- Babylon
- Inca
- Mali
- Maya
- Ottomans
- Polynesia
- Sioux
- Sweden
- Venice

New civs that I liked to see explored:
- Cuba
- Goths
- Inuit
- Iraq
- Italy
- Moors
- Soviet Union
- Vietnam
- Yakutia
- Yugoslavia

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I'd like to see a Poll with Civs that have never before appeared in Civ, the ones the players would like to be included in. (with 10 votes available, like here)
I'll create my own list later today, perhaps someone will crate a new thread?

I've been planning on it. Wanted this one to reach fruition first.

Good idea. But maybe it would be better to create a thread for new civ suggestions first to cover most of the important civs that can be introduced to the civs series. Or do you plan a poll by giving regions as choices?

 

[Siptah]

Good idea. But maybe it would be better to create a thread for new civ suggestions first to cover most of the important civs that can be introduced to the civs series. Or do you plan a poll by giving regions as choices?

One could choose the winners of the many, many elimination games of civ VI and V (minus the ones that already appeared of course).

 

[The Kingmaker]

I maintained a very long-lived never-before-seen civs elimination thread, so that'll be where I start re: gathering data

And of course, there are certain civs about which the forum is very vocal in discussion, so they'll be taken into consideration.

Should probably end up with around 25 solid choices.

I expect to have it ready by this evening.