MLDR004 NOW and Again

[Northern Pike]

We don't have an alliance with the Persians at the moment, since I didn't want to limit our options, and they're furious with us (despite our ongoing RoP agreement). Remember that we're at war with the French as well as the Iroquois.

Our forces in the north are positioned to deal with flips, French landings, and to some extent a Persian sneak attack. They're not set up for an offensive, so if you decide to go to war with the Persians you'll want to redeploy first.

We've just taken Gandasetaigon, so it can't flip this interturn. The way I have our units arranged around Gayagaahe will cost you a turn in getting to Ganogeh, but will prevent disaster if Gay. flips. Note that the Iroquois have Goigouen on the distant southern island.

We'll need a caravel to move Mack's Army off the island it's on, and we have one in Kufstein.

Now that we're in our GA, the palace prebuild in Graz may well be approaching completion too quickly (28 turns to go), especially if we intend it to get us ToE. If you think this is the case, we can default to a bank in Graz with no loss of shields, or of course MM (in this case really pillage) the city for lower shield production.

I have a lot of infrastructure under construction at the moment, since it's important to make progress in this area during the GA. But if you think we aren't preparing well enough for the Persian war, by all means change some of my choices.

I haven't done it yet, so as to leave you with more cash, but we should probably rush the temple in Weiz.

 

[meldor]

The French want to play early? Interesting. Don't forget that they have an MPP with Russia. If we trip it then pull Arabia and Scandinavia in on our side. Get them in against the Franch and Persians as well. It will help to slow down the tech race too. Arabs are looking pretty scary on the other land mass, but then again, so did Babylon our first game...

 

[Northern Pike]

The save:

850 AD, end of turn

 

[meldor]

One more thing, if we trip the MPP with Rusia, that will mean we don't have to worry about stealing tech from them.

 

[Northern Pike]

The north now:

 

[ChrTh]

Man, the Persian war is going to be EPIC...

 

[Belisar]

Bach, the rest of the continental Iros, new wars... NP certainly got his part of the middle ages
I will likely just prepare for the Persian war, maybe the honor of starting it will fall to Steve.

got it

 

[ChrTh]

Since Russia and France have an MPP, if we were to trigger it, Russia has a nice little city on our continent we can take ... plus, if I'm reading the map correctly, there's an island with an Iroqi and 2 Russki cities on it, take the island at once...

 

[Belisar]

The 2nd try and upload is not working, frustrating

Will try later

 

[Belisar]

I'm sorry, just the report, this is my 3rd try, upload isn't working and I don't have the time to try it a thousand times.


Preturn: I agree with NP using our GA mainly for a massive infrastructure push and I will
fit in as many knights as possible
The one thing I don't understand are the aqueducts in size-2 cities Eisenstadt and Villach
Villach is swaped to a Caravel which we need to get Goiouen on the southern island,
once we own the continent we should grow this 2 sites with workers from the corrupt regions
to get full fishing villages with a high commerrce output.
Eisenstadt has enough shields accululated to be swaped to knight.
We have 4 waiting settlers but we need more workers so our high-food site Krems is swaped to worker
(Innsbruck is already working an unimproved desert tile for example)
Swap Graz to bank as already suggested by NP, rush temple in Weiz.
Some troop repositioning north and south.

IT: spot a French galley in near Graz.

860: Graz: bank -> courthouse
Linz: knight -> knight
Weiz: temple
We go for Ganogeh, one of the 2 left Iro cities on the islands north.
Our in Caravel in Kufstein starts operation "get the army back"

IT: A French 1HP galley commits suicide and we get a vet galley.
Scary, 4 Russian Galleons move near Niagara Falls.

870: Salzburg: courthouse -> market
Krems: worker
We land near Ganogeh, after our galleys are empty we sink an injured Iro galley and
get an elite galley.
the French talk and give us their 14 cash for peace, I also sign a RoP.

IT: And this is not good, Persia and Russia sign an MPP!
Arabs complete Magellan

880: Wiener Neustadt: market -> bank
Chemistry is still very expensive, so we steal it.

IT: Xerxes wants a RoP, I think he might be up for something.

890: Kufstein: Walls -> musket
Linz: knight -> knight
Innsbruck: market -> courthouse
Oka: Trebuchet, Krems: worker


900: Vienna finishes HE, starts kinghts in 3
new Anc.Cav. from Zeus
Klagenfurt: market -> bank
Graz finishes courthouse, starts prebuild
Our silk-deal with Russia ends.
I don't want to help Russia (they have tons! of cash due to the bug) so I sell
France Astronomy for Spices and all their cash.
I love our GA as we have accumulated enough money to steal Metallurgy
We land at Gewauga, the Iro capital.

IT: Persia wants to renew our Gems deal, no chance.
I check all cities to prevent riots in the IT.

910: Villach finishes Caravel -> market
We need the 5th lux badly so I make a wine-dyes deal with Abu because Russia
is no save partner after the MPP with Xerxes.
We take the Iro capital in the north without problems, now only the southern city is remaining,
the Caravel in Villach is already moving.
I use our spare workers in the north to build some fortress which I will upgrade to barricads
next turn. This way we are pretty good protected from Persian attacks from the Persepolis-direction.
There is, however the question how many units they have in their 2 northern cities.

IT: The Russians complete Smith in Moscow
The Arabs swap to Newton and complete it.

920: Linz: knight -> knight
Eisenstadt: knight -> musket
Bruck: rax
We complete the first barricade south of Bruck, from this position we reach the mountain tile near Sardis
and near their northern salpeter source in the first turn of the war.

IT: The Iros sink one of our empty galleys near their former capital

930: Ugarit: market -> musket
Krems: worker -> worker
Landeck: courthouse -> market
The last "Iro expedition" goes for the southern island
finish another barricade north, this one is the 3-turn link between Kufstein and Bruck


There are the following decisions left:

1) I got us up to Metallurgy because getting MT quickly
would give us a technical advantage over the Persians we will need.
They have one salpeter source in the south and one north, same with iron.
If we can cut these sources it would give us a huge advantage, fighting longbows and spears with Hussars,
so getting MT isprobably the number 1 priority

2) When to declare war. We have a 6-turn Dyes deal left with them (from Meldor, he probably
didn't expect the Iros collapsing that quickly, he was just too succesful
On the other side, our Caravel will probably need this 6 turns to get the last Iro city.
I just have a mixed feelings concerning our situation. This variant was clearly designed
to be at war all the time and now we are ~8 turns (from 910AD on) just preparing and not really fighting.

3) How to deal with the Russia-Persia MPP situation. If we get the Arabs against the Russians
I fear that they would swallow Russia and we have a 400 kg gorilla (~880 lb)

4) If I would have to declare against the Persians I would investigate the 2 cities in the north first.
It is probably worth the money to know how many units they have up there, alternatively NP could
have some knowledge based on the observations on his turns.
I have a mobile force in Salamanca and some MDIs in Weiz to get them south more quickly if they are not needed.
Absorbing the initial attack without tripping the MPP might be best.

5) There are a number of units left, already in boarder-cities, for upgrading.
In C&C this is painfully expensive and Steve needs to select which one he needs most.
On the positive side, Hussars are only 80 shields, not the painful 100 of the Sipahi,
which means 30 gold for each knight only.

Good luck Steve
Belisar


Btw, I hope everyone has copied my PediaIcons.txt into his Conquest/text/ directory or the game
will crash with the first Hussar.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

I have the game, but will wait until tomorrow in the hope that the patch appears. I'd love to stick a functional forbidden palace somewhere in Persia.

EDIT: Got it, that is, when the save appears. I have a habit of saying "got it" once the previous player's turns appear, and often don't bother to download the save until I'm ready to play...

 

[ChrTh]

This variant was clearly designed
to be at war all the time and now we are ~8 turns (from 910AD on) just preparing and not really fighting.

Yeah, but we've done that before ...

 

[meldor]

We don't have to declare until we have gotten rid of the Iroquois, however, we can declare early. If we have enough money, just declare, buy Russia in and then go on the offensive. Hopefully, the Persians will then hit Russians as well and trip the MPP with France.

 

[Northern Pike]

I had Eisenstadt and Villach work on aqueducts simply to get some important infrastructure built in them during our GA. Since they aren't very productive towns, I wasn't inclined to gamble that they could build marketplaces and then aqueducts as well before stalling at size six.

As regards the garrisons of the two isolated Persian cities in the north, all I can say is that after the last Iroquois city on our continent fell, I saw a lot of Persian knights move back to their homeland, and not to the two cites--which is suggestive, but hardly conclusive.

 

[Belisar]

OK, upload seems to work again

SAVE

and a picture, the red circles are salpeter, the blue iron
all are near our boarders

 

[Arizona_Steve]

To patch or not to patch... that is the question...

Looking at the current save, I see no pressing need to get a Forbidden Palace going just yet. I would rather place it somewhere in Persia than on the former Iroquois lands to the North, and it is not realistic for me to expect to take a big enough bite out of Persia to consider building it. The gold-per-turn bug continues to be a big pain in the butt, but we've coped OK with it up to now, and I see no point in holding up the game in the hope that the patch may materialize today.

I noticed that Belisar didn't complete his turns. I may play up to 1050AD to even out the numbers, although I may hand off early if I get to a critical stage, so that Meldor can make the appropriate decisions.

(0) Inherited Turn.
OK, there's been enough poncing around with the Iroquois, so my initial aim is to get rid of their last city before it gets a chance to spit out another settler.
I start by vetoing the musketman in Eisenstadt, and the marketplace in Villach. Both are switched to caravals, which are rushed.
There are two workers irrigating the plains near Vienna. We have no need for extra food at Vienna, so I move those workers to the mountains to the North After all Vienna is making 26 shields per turn, and needs to get to 27 in order to train Hussars every three turns.
Linz is exquisitely optimized for Hussar production (27 uncorrupted shields/turn, no excess food). Wiener Neustadt, our third size 12 city, needs a courthouse to get to the required 27 uncorrupted shields/turn, so I queue a courthouse after the bank completes so that I won't forget later.
I missed Saltzburg. Also size 12, but not enough shields to effectively build Hussars, even with it's courthouse. It may be good for a musket or two.
Optimize for food, and place a number of taxmen in former Iroquois cities, to boost our income a little.

IBT:
Salzburg - Marketplace => Worker
Villach - Caravel => Temple
Eisenstadt - Caravel => Courthouse
Neusiedl - Aquaduct => Marketplace

(1) 940AD
I continue the fortress building project on our Northern border with Persia. In the meantime, I start moving medieval infantry and longbows (upgraded archers) towards our new caravals.

IBT:
Bischofshofen - Cannon => Cannon
Linz - Knight => Knight
Salzburg - Worker => Bank
Wiener Neustadt - Bank => Courthouse
Krems - Worker => Worker

(2) 950AD
Some selective upgrades of archers to longbows, to assist in "Operation No Iroquois". I will be keeping all knights on our continent for the upcoming Persia campaign.
A redlined Iroquois galley is sitting next to our elite 3/5 galley. Needless to say, that Iroquois galley is now resting quietly on the sea-bed. Our galley refortifies.
There's a second Iroquois galley heading down our Western shore. I'm sure there's troops on this one, so I pick up a pikeman from Wiener Neustadt and send him to Eisenstadt, where he will be in position to defend next turn if troops are landed.
The loss of military police at Wiener Neustadt forces me to hire a taxman there.
I upgrade the spearman in Eisenstadt so that he can be fortified next turn.

IBT:
The Iroquois land a single MDI next to Eisenstadt.
Vienna - Knight => Knight
Innsbruck - Courthouse => Musketman

(3) 960AD
Eisenstadt has two defenders, and is safe.

IBT:
Catherine gets in a tizzy over our piddly little curragh in her territory. I offer to move it.
The Iroquois MDI attacks Eisenstadt, and loses horribly.
Gayagaahe decides to riot. Damn Iroquois peaceniks. It'll starve next turn.
Ugarit - Musketman => Musketman
Oka - Cannon => Cannon
Krems - Worker => Worker

(4) 970AD
There's a minor trading opportunity with France for some optional techs, so I take the opportunity and send Incense and Chemistry their way, in exchange for Economics and Printing Press. Amazingly, the Vikings do not have contact with Persia or the Iroquois.

IBT:
Kufstein - Musketman => Musketman
Linz - Knight => Knight

(5) 980AD
Troop movements. I have a number of MDI and longbows heading to Eisenstadt to board ships.

IBT:
Vienna - Knight => Knight
Wiener Neustadt - Courthouse => Knight
Krems - Worker => Worker

(6) 990AD
I send two caravals filled with troops out towards the last Iroquois city.

IBT:
Klagenfurt - Bank => Knight
Innsbruck - Musketman => Musketman

(7) 1000AD
Switch Wiener Neustadt to a temple to help with the happiness situation there.

IBT:
Ugarit - Musketman => Musketman
Linz - Knight => Knight
Krems - Worker => Worker

(8) 1010AD
Sink the Iroquois galley that brought the MDI 5 turns ago, and get an elite caravel.

IBT:
Our golden age ends. Income drops from 350/turn to 192/turn.
Vienna - Knight => Musketman
Wiener Neustadt - Temple => ??
Gewauga riots. Entertainer hired.

(9) 1020AD
Land three MDI, two longbows and a musket next to Goigouen. I hope that's enough troops.

IBT:
Krems - Worker => Worker
Landeck - Marketplace => Knight
Neusiedl - Marketplace => Courthouse

(10) 1030AD
The battle for Goigouen.
Veteran longbow loses against regular spearman without taking damage
Veteran longbow beats regular spearman losing two hipoints and promotes to elite.
Veteran MDI loses against regular spearman without taking damage
Veteran MDI beats regular spearman losing two hipoints.
Regular MDI beats regular archer losing one hitpoint and promotes to veteran.
Goigouen is captured and...

Mine the second mountain next to Vienna and switch to max shields. The build is also switched to knights.

I'm going to pass the game onto Meldor at this point as he has to declare war on Persia before the interturn. There are lots of units fortified in various places that can be used to attack Persia this turn. There are settlers in Bruck and Oka. I did not do many upgrades, or trade for Military Tradition, so there is a ton of money available for the war effort.
Might be worth checking if Russia and Persia still have that MPP going.

Time to declare on Persia

 

[ChrTh]

DIE PERSIA DIE

 

[meldor]

Sure, fine, quit two turns earlier than you said and make me take the initial punishment...

I will turn it into

 

[ChrTh]

Just remember what I learned the hard way: Immortals are still effective versus Knights.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

@Meldor - you'll probably do better than I would anyway. I was getting far too many interruptions while I was playing...