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MNAI-U: unofficial build & bugfixes

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by lfgr, May 15, 2019.

  1. Vintage Strategist

    Vintage Strategist Chieftain

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    can they build work boats in crusade in MNAI? They definitely can't in the base game
     
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  2. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    oh. I don't know. but if they are classified as military unit, they should.
    (I never used crusade ever ^^ )
     
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  3. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Finally the promised answers:

    Noted. Probably hard to fix, though.

    I atached a patch that changes the AI free XP progression from 1-2-4-6-8 to 1-2-3-4-5 from prince onwards, as suggested by [to_xp]Gekko in this thread. Copy to <Mod dir>/XML/GameInfo/CIV4HandicapInfo.xml to try it out.
    If you want to change that yourself, search for <iAIFreeXP> in the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml file. Let me know if you need help.

    Noted. City Raider is probably overvalued, and the only reason the AI doesn't take it early is that it cannot do so before reasearching Warfare.

    I will look into the AI for lair exploration at some point, as other mentioned that they do it even without a decent defense. But I don't think I want the AI to consider a particular rushing strategy, they should ideally behave the same way as a human player.

    I don't quite get your point about the models, could you elaborate, please?

    I think that is fine. There is some cost to not being at war with the barbarians.

    As omegaflames said, this is out of scope for this mod. Additionally, I think it is important that AI is not too eager to give up techs to a conqueror, as this only leads to snowballing.

    Not sure if I can do much about this, it's usually advantageous to found a city in an optimal position and as early as possible. Did that ever happen to anybody else? If yes, I'll have to figure something out.

    Noted, they probably shouldn't happen on cities at all.

    I'd need a savegame from directly before that to find out what goes wrong.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  4. Shamira

    Shamira Chieftain

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    I installed the game as the instructions said as I understood it twice now and it tells me "failed to initialize the primary control theme" what do I do? I installed FFh2,, patch O and then this as instructed.

    EDIT: No idea what I did, I tried a couple of more times and it's fixed now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  5. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    For the record, this is usually due to a wrong mod folder name.

    I forgot to add yesterday that I'm willing to change the AI free XP in the mod itself, but only if I get positive feedback, preferably from multiple players who play at immortal/deity. So, if you have the same problem as Vintage Strategist, please check out the patch in the post above and let me know what you think. :)
     
  6. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    Two more issues found - probably none are new ones though:

    1) Stasis eats up one turn of gold cost extra in the beginning somehow. This put me into 'STRIKE' (whatever that does) when low on gold when Illians did it in some game.

    2) Samhain spawns Frostling units. I had it happen in one game that shortly after some of them (and probably some other barbarian units too but not 100% sure on that) simply disappeared from the map. Presumably this is due to "too many" barbarian units being on the map which causes barbarian player to randomly dismiss some or something. Can this somehow be prevented? Do temporary units (ones made with newUnit.setDuration() ) also count towards this limit?
    Edit: Probably one of the dismissed other Barbarian units was an Archer defending a barbarian town.

    Found the savegame but everything is ok in it. If there was a problem (fair chance as I would have had to mess up in multiple manners including running into a clearly visible scorpion with my scout) then it can no longer be reproduced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
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  7. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    For 2) again a savegame would be useful, but I will also take a look at the code at some point. I'm not sure barb despawning is intended in FfH.
     
  8. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    I dont have a save for that. And its the only time (trying this version) that I have seen Samhain units disappearing. The one thing that I think was different from the other test games was that there were significant unoccupied landmasses in that game. Presumably these accumulate barbarian units and they then reach critical numbers and when Samhain is done they get over the limit. Just a theory though.
     
  9. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    Some more issues - all probably older and not newly introduced:

    'For the Horde' can leave Barbarian towns completely empty and it seems Barbarian AI doesnt even remake town defenders reliably if at all. (Probably have a save for this.)

    Samhain created units can probably move instantly - this is quite mean. Was posted in other thread but based on my observation also applies to this version here. Original post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/extramodmod-continued.646778/page-10#post-15912724 (Dont have a save for this.)
     
  10. omegaflames

    omegaflames Warlord

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    Samhain units being able to move first has to do with the order things are actually built and turns taken. Assuming you are the Illians and since technically everything is built at the end of your turn (projects included) that would create the units during the end turn phase (after you have clicked end turn) so once it becomes the barbarians turn they are then able to move because they were created before it was the barbarians turn. I'm not sure how you would get around that unless you created a custom hold spell that is 2? turns long as unless I'm mistaken a 1 turn long one would also not work as IIRC that would be removed at the beginning of the barbarians turn. If you aren't the Illians then you are still at the mercy of which civ takes turns in which order and I looked that up once but would have to find the information again before I comment on that scenario.
     
  11. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    (I dont think this is much of a problem for the (if human) Illian player as they know exactly when they create Samhain.)
    I thought in single player human always moves first? So Human -> Illians-AI -> Samhain-Frostlings.
    Anyway I dont know enough about civ4/ffh modding to say what would be the best way to improve it. My first idea would have been to spawn the Frostlings not at Samhain creation time but later in the turn order. When Barbarians spawn on lairs for example they dont move right away. They can be seen by the player/s before they get to move.
     
  12. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Exactly, so it's Human -> Illians-AI build Samhain -> Barbarians move frostlings -> Human again.

    I'll add this to my TODO list, it's probably easy to fix.
     
  13. Alekseyev_

    Alekseyev_ Chieftain

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    I feel like this thing is the only thing that makes Samhain remotely useful. For humans, I see little purpose in the ritual, since they are hardly a threat and you basically just hand out free XP to everyone else. Even Mokka is easily dispatched of, and not nearly as deadly as Orthus.
     
  14. Bickendan

    Bickendan Chieftain

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    Two questions: One, are Snake Pillars supposed to be pillageable?
    And, if so, are improvements in nuetral land pillageable?

    There's a Snake Pillar on the exact tile I'm trying to park a city to infill my borders and correctly capture resources, but I can't build the city on the Snake Pillar nor can I pillage it to remove it. I'll provide a save file if needed.
     
  15. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    Sometimes AI will value palace mana extremely high - dont know if this is technically a bug or not but it IMO disrupts gameplay - this has been reported elsewhere here in the forum too. See image. Probably have the save file too.

    Edit: Added new image later in same game. Noteworthy is that at some time in between these two Kuriotate AI thought the Law Mana to be almost worthless. Should have saves for that too.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  16. omegaflames

    omegaflames Warlord

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    Snake Pillars are the hell terrain version of corn, rice, and wheat so that is why they are not pillageable. I'm not sure of the reason for them being converted to an improvement instead of a resource on hell terrain but that is what was done (the game also gives you a free farm there when it's converted back to normal terrain). Most improvements in neutral land should be pillageable. You could try converting the land back to normal terrain via life spell, building the city and then letting hell terrain retake the plot. I have no idea how the game would handle having an improvement being added to the same plot as a city though.

    Edit: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ffh2-bug-thread.308020/page-16#post-7757311
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  17. omegaflames

    omegaflames Warlord

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    Being that mana is a pretty rare and very valuable resource (especially your first one of that type since it unlocks spell promotion paths) I would also consider them worth a lot. That said giving up all that for no guarantee of keeping access to the resource once the trade can be broken does seem a bit off. I'd want that law mana for a lot more than 20 or so turns if I gave away all those techs.
     
  18. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    I canceled the first deal (image #5) after ~10 turns. When I then tried to get new stuff they werent interested anymore and offered almost nothing. Some time later (image #6) however they again offered a lot. Unless they need it to build the respective tower or sth like that I dont think this makes any sense. And even then its IMO out of line with other AI behavior which is deliberately not entirely selfish just to make it hard for the human player.
     
  19. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Yeah, this seems like a bug. One savegame for each situation (AI offers to much, AI offers nothing) would be great. Then I can go through the calculation step-by-step.
     
  20. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    Turn 209 - see image - you have to move the NW scout one tile westwards to contact the Kuriotates. They will then offer lots for the Law mana.
    Turn 222 - they offer only 5 gold for the Law mana. Reverse offering doesnt seem to get much out of it either.
     

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