[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

Umm? CvEventManager.py: onRouteBuilt() is right next to onImprovementBuilt.

*Cough* I hope you're looking at this Kael.... *Cough*

Heres a bug: Scouts and hunters are supposed to be double strength in battles against animals, but actually they don't seem to get the bonus.

 

[Chalid]

During travelling by train today I had several ideas. I thought about the Order and the Veil and on Demon summoning.

1) When Order conquers a city that has the Veil religion or Veil conquers an Order city there should be something happening.
a) I thought that order troops might immediatly burn the city if Veil is the only religion, and kill quite a lot of the population when there are other religion too (and the Veil should be gone after that).
b) Veil troops wouldn't kill all the order fanatics instantly in an order city but instead sacrifice them to their demons.

This lead to another idea:
2) I thought that demon summoners should need an resouce "Sacrifices" to be built, and if that resource is no longer available they shall be instantly downgraded back to conjurers (might be problematic as some promotions might be lost, but i think thats an effect of no longer fulfilling the pact with the demons).

Now where shall this resource come from?
One possibility might be to create a building that provides them, but leads to massive unhappines and that randomly removes population from the city it is built in.
The second source of "Sacrifices" could be the guys in conquerd order (or other religions too) cities, so when the veil conquers a city "Sacrifices" are provided for several turns and the population is reduced by half that number or something - and the order religion gone. (This might happen by a building that is giftet to one of the players cities and removend when the sacrifies (stored in an additional variable) are used up)

3) Order should be capable of building a kind of crusaders only when at war against Overlords or Veil. After the war these troops should be downgraded again (if possible).

4) Order should not be able to build the Veil shrine and the other way round. If the shrine is captured it should be burned down.

5) Cities that convert to order under veil rulership or the other way round need not to be treatet special as i see them as sects that operate in the underground (they crept into the cities at night so to speak) and have to be eliminated by the inquisition.

 

[Divvu]

Hi Kael, I'm new, but I couldn't simply go on without telling you what a great work you've done.
Not only for the mod, I read trough about 56 of the 102 pages and I can feel just how much you have motivated the people around you, being myself a pen-and-paper storyteller (actually only W.Wolf latest fantasy game,Exalted) and a background-writer I think I can recognize a good setting when I see one...
However there seems to be some problems with your mod and my civ IV, when I start a new game ( patch installed, files installed without overwriting eccrcc... as I said I've readen a lot...) some icons are replaced by text like [bullet_icon] or [food_Icon] and I can't see hammers or gold production in the description of tiles or building being them replaced by simbols like [] or similar....
I don't think this is wanted since in some screenshots I've seen people who gets those symbols while I cannot even see the flask and gold coin for research and treasury in the main screen!
I?m actually playing with the Italian version of the software (i mean civ....obviously) being myself Italian I haven't bought an international version ,could that be the problem?
Sorry if I mispelled something but, hey internationality is half the nature of the web!!!

 

[Divvu]

Also I can't see city names in the main screen, theletters are in part replaced by gold, ivory or other commercial icons... Strange!

Keep up the wonderful work!

 

[Chalid]

I?m actually playing with the Italian version of the software (i mean civ....obviously) being myself Italian I haven't bought an international version ,could that be the problem?

Im owning a german version and have no problems at all. It seems as if your FfH-game fonts are broken or not placed in the correct folder "/mod/Fall from Heaven 80/resources" (this should have happened automatical).

 

[Kael]

Hi Kael,

First, want to add my praise for a fantastic mod - great work I've been following for a while but only just decided to register. Love all the ideas being discussed for the next versions, can't wait to play...

I just wanted to ask about a few quirks with the mod that i've noticed and was wondering if they were intentional?

1. Prophets upgrade to archmages: With some patience and carefully planned battles (....and maybe a few reloads...) I've exploited this feature in my current game to level up my prophet then upgrade him to archmage with some very nice attack, defence and movement promotions not normally available to him. You can also use Bambur's weaponsmith function to add the quality weapons just for added effect (have used this on the mithril golem which is quite cool too)

This is all intentional. There are a couple places you can "dual class" your units and build a unit up with promotions they aren't normally allowed to have. Be it an archer with city attack promotions (warrior switched to archer). An Inquisitor built from a dwarven soldier is perhaps the best example, able to get the guerilla and city attack promotions.

2. I've finished the tech tree but I can't seem to access some spells like summon air elemental and earth elemental - are these linked to state religions? I'm sure I'm just missing something as i don't remember seeing any posts with the same problem

There are units in the game that Im not using yet, like the earth and Air elemental. I will clean them out before I release version 1.

3. You can (legitimately) get more than 3 of each national unit. In my current game, i declared war on my neighbours and then systemically wiped them out, razing cities as I went and leaving behind "wilderness" which quickly filled with barbarians (i'm playing on raging barbarians). As i am pretty much at end game, I regularly get barbian bersekers, druids, monks and eidolon swarming through, which I can "acquire" If i battle them with, say my inquisitor with the "command" promotion.

Anyway, love your work, keep it up!

Yeah, the Inquisitor has the potential to be the most game effecting unit. Command is a very powerful ability. But I don't have any problem with this tactic.

 

[Kael]

Something weird is going on when I try to use this mod on a random map.... Most of the time the map has ZERO reagents. So far I've played five games, and I've only had reagents on 2 of them (and I've explored the whole map on all of my games, so it isn't as if I'm not looking hard enough). Since I can't make a mage without reagents, this eliminates one of my favorite aspects of this mod . I don't know why this is happening... I've had this happen on a temperate/pangea and a temperate/continents, both on small size. Maybe there should be a world/national wonder that gives reagents in case you can't find any?

All of the resources have been recosted in 0.90. They are supposed to be a rare resource, but not that rare.

 

[Kael]

Tower of Complacency should give +20 happy or something and not infinity.

Add some Attack bird that the hawk can be upgraded to.

Healing Spring resource (when standing on it add promotion with +50% heal and be able to move and heal).

Bug: Hasted ships sometimes have the effect for about 5 turns.

I really like the healing spring idea, unfortunatly the computer wouldn't use it.

I will check out the ships.

Are you saying you wanna see more of the hawk animations???

The tower kills all unhappiness, do you think thats to powerful?

 

[Zuul]

Yes it's too powerful, maybe have it 30 but not more.
War weariness (-30) and asylum (-16) are too good to ignore compleatly.

Yea I like the hawk animation , but an upgrade would be nice to have, some minor attack damage and 3 in range. Maybe some nest resourse? Maybe do it like Mylon and have double time to build units ytou dont have the resourse for (or even better quadruple).

 

[Kael]

During travelling by train today I had several ideas. I thought about the Order and the Veil and on Demon summoning.

1) When Order conquers a city that has the Veil religion or Veil conquers an Order city there should be something happening.
a) I thought that order troops might immediatly burn the city if Veil is the only religion, and kill quite a lot of the population when there are other religion too (and the Veil should be gone after that).
b) Veil troops wouldn't kill all the order fanatics instantly in an order city but instead sacrifice them to their demons.

This lead to another idea:
2) I thought that demon summoners should need an resouce "Sacrifices" to be built, and if that resource is no longer available they shall be instantly downgraded back to conjurers (might be problematic as some promotions might be lost, but i think thats an effect of no longer fulfilling the pact with the demons).

Now where shall this resource come from?
One possibility might be to create a building that provides them, but leads to massive unhappines and that randomly removes population from the city it is built in.
The second source of "Sacrifices" could be the guys in conquerd order (or other religions too) cities, so when the veil conquers a city "Sacrifices" are provided for several turns and the population is reduced by half that number or something - and the order religion gone. (This might happen by a building that is giftet to one of the players cities and removend when the sacrifies (stored in an additional variable) are used up)

3) Order should be capable of building a kind of crusaders only when at war against Overlords or Veil. After the war these troops should be downgraded again (if possible).

4) Order should not be able to build the Veil shrine and the other way round. If the shrine is captured it should be burned down.

5) Cities that convert to order under veil rulership or the other way round need not to be treatet special as i see them as sects that operate in the underground (they crept into the cities at night so to speak) and have to be eliminated by the inquisition.

For the resources required by the units, its a cool idea but the AI wouldn't understand it. I would have to weight the building up to make the computer build them and then it would start building them in all of its cities, giving human players a significant advantage.

I love the idea to have special units available only if your at war with your opposed religion. Im going to add that to my ideas list.

I don't mind building each others shrines. As you said these are underground sects and could survive and floursih in an opposed empire. As to why a player would want to use his prophet to boost the spread of a religion thast keeps his state religion from spreading, i dont know, but i have no problem with being able to do it.

 

[Kael]

Hi Kael, I'm new, but I couldn't simply go on without telling you what a great work you've done.
Not only for the mod, I read trough about 56 of the 102 pages and I can feel just how much you have motivated the people around you, being myself a pen-and-paper storyteller (actually only W.Wolf latest fantasy game,Exalted) and a background-writer I think I can recognize a good setting when I see one...
However there seems to be some problems with your mod and my civ IV, when I start a new game ( patch installed, files installed without overwriting eccrcc... as I said I've readen a lot...) some icons are replaced by text like [bullet_icon] or [food_Icon] and I can't see hammers or gold production in the description of tiles or building being them replaced by simbols like [] or similar....
I don't think this is wanted since in some screenshots I've seen people who gets those symbols while I cannot even see the flask and gold coin for research and treasury in the main screen!
I?m actually playing with the Italian version of the software (i mean civ....obviously) being myself Italian I haven't bought an international version ,could that be the problem?
Sorry if I mispelled something but, hey internationality is half the nature of the web!!!

Im glad your enjoying the mod. I haven't heard of the problem your describing. What do you mean by "files installed without overwriting"? Did you put the mod in the 'Mods' directory?

 

[Kael]

Umm? CvEventManager.py: onRouteBuilt() is right next to onImprovementBuilt.

Ahh, good catch, you're right.

 

[Chalid]

For the resources required by the units, its a cool idea but the AI wouldn't understand it. I would have to weight the building up to make the computer build them and then it would start building them in all of its cities, giving human players a significant advantage.

Make it a national wonder or even skip it. Lets built demon summoners just when we lately captured some cities that provide the sacrifices.

I don't mind building each others shrines. As you said these are underground sects and could survive and floursih in an opposed empire. As to why a player would want to use his prophet to boost the spread of a religion thast keeps his state religion from spreading, i dont know, but i have no problem with being able to do it.

As the opposed religion is spreading anyway and at least in vanilla the additional spread was not noticeable to me. So it is a no brainer to build the shrine as it gives you the gold/culture/science even if it isn't your state religion. And the sect is there nevertheless as it is still the holy city.

 

[Divvu]

Yes, I extracted all files in Program\firaxis etcetc and I'm sure there were no older version (I had 0,6).
With your older mod I had no problem...
However I'll try some other ways... Since I'm the only one to report this bug it's probably caused by my hardware|system config...
I'll try re-instaling the whole game and Then I'll post again (only to remove the trouble of a lurking byg in the back of your mind gh).
Also I've noticed some font errors even in the official patched version of Civ, i think my Nvidia 2q antialiasising is somehow the problem but I've no proof...

 

[Kael]

Yes, I extracted all files in Program\firaxis etcetc and I'm sure there were no older version (I had 0,6).
With your older mod I had no problem...
However I'll try some other ways... Since I'm the only one to report this bug it's probably caused by my hardware|system config...
I'll try re-instaling the whole game and Then I'll post again (only to remove the trouble of a lurking byg in the back of your mind gh).
Also I've noticed some font errors even in the official patched version of Civ, i think my Nvidia 2q antialiasising is somehow the problem but I've no proof...

Interesting, let me know what you find out.

 

[Divvu]

So, I've somehow managed to resolve my problems but solution seems stranger than the problem itself... Probably the Great Storyteller up in the Sky has upgradede me with a Gremlin Aura...
this is my step-by-step procedure

1) Re-installed game and mod--->nothing happens,still font problems...

2)Upgraded video card drivers(I had to do it anyway...)---> Slight change in font problems but they're still there (!!!)

3)Changed game language from Italian to English---> other Improvements in city screen but they may simply be rearrangement of previous font errors

3)Changed resolution from 1024x768 to 1280x960, removed in-built civ Antialiaising function and replaced it with my video card in-built

Problem solved!

Notice that I'm not at all a computer expert so I've mainly stalked blindly my goal taking hints from problems I had with other games.
I post this here mainly to inform other peoples who may have my problems, maybe no one will ever but you never know...

 

[Daijin]

Just a thought....

Could transform "planes" into Dragons.

 

[Zap]

For the resources required by the units, its a cool idea but the AI wouldn't understand it. I would have to weight the building up to make the computer build them and then it would start building them in all of its cities, giving human players a significant advantage.

snip

What if you made it a national wonder?

-Zap

Edit: Whoops! Chalid beat me to it (teach me to finish the thread b4 replying)!

 

[Errand]

Just a thought
I know you are redoing aspects of the religions in future version, but should it be harder to convert to another state religion? Just at the moment it's like...whoops, lost my elven heroes and i reeeallly would like the mithril golem so....

Not just a loss of the bonuses, but an actually penalty, maybe more severe the longer you've had the religion and/or the fewer cities you have with that religion? Maybe there should be a risk for each city to flip to barbarian or another civ with your old state religion (especially if it doesn't have the new state religion) moderated by their level of culture eek: ...imagine your capital with all its nice wonders flipping to barbarian....). It would mean you would have to carefully plan in advance and make you think twice about converting just to get those extra units/wonders.

...it could be a problem though for some of the religions further down the tech tree...the AI mightbe less likely to use them ...on second thought maybe not such a good idea...

 

[Kael]

Just a thought
I know you are redoing aspects of the religions in future version, but should it be harder to convert to another state religion? Just at the moment it's like...whoops, lost my elven heroes and i reeeallly would like the mithril golem so....

Not just a loss of the bonuses, but an actually penalty, maybe more severe the longer you've had the religion and/or the fewer cities you have with that religion? Maybe there should be a risk for each city to flip to barbarian or another civ with your old state religion (especially if it doesn't have the new state religion) moderated by their level of culture eek: ...imagine your capital with all its nice wonders flipping to barbarian....). It would mean you would have to carefully plan in advance and make you think twice about converting just to get those extra units/wonders.

...it could be a problem though for some of the religions further down the tech tree...the AI mightbe less likely to use them ...on second thought maybe not such a good idea...

My thought was that the more religion specific stuff I put in the harder it becomes to switch to another religion. The fact that a city can't be both Veil and the Order pretty much makes it so its impossible to switch from one to the other in an empire that is strongly religious. The speciality religious buildings also give negative happiness when they are paired up with opposed religions.

So I agree, bouncing between isn't what I want either. But I was hoping that I can meet a good blance between being able to switch but having it cost you by tying more stuff to religion than is in Vanilla Civ.