[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[cordas]

Oops, I would just like to say that Im in England at the moment so technically if this was a freudian slip of any sort, then I must have been referring to cigarettes.

Hmmm do we believe you...... *LOL* Have a great time over here anyway and drink some quality beer rather than that American muck for a few days.

 

[cordas]

Yeah, the real problem is that there are no late game ships. I added the Queen of the Line in .95 to help with this, but there needs to be a better naval selection in the mod. We are working on it for 2.0.

The Queen is a nice ship, but its a little slow and I would say 7 unit carrying capacity is a bit to large, having just had 2 of those used in an invasion of my island it REALLY hurt, esp as I attacked them with 2 pirates and a Queen of my own and lost all 3 ships.

 

[Caleb_kreegan]

Hi Kael. Just a recommendation :

I've noticed that u like the music from heroes of M&M, so you could use the Necropolis Theme from HM&M3 for Nieludh of undead

 

[Kael]

Hi Kael. Just a recommendation :

I've noticed that u like the music from heroes of M&M, so you could use the Necropolis Theme from HM&M3 for Nieludh of undead

Actually I don't use any of the music from Heroes of Might and Magic 3. I have it all on my computer (they had some awesome music!) but I couldn't use it because everytime I heard a track it reminded me so much of HOMM that it just seemed weird to be playing Civ while listening to it.

I did use a lot of music from Eclipse and I think they may have remixed some of the HOMM tracks. Several people have recognized a lot of the music as HOMM music so there must be some link. I am just unaware of exactly what it is.

ps 200 pages! Woot!

 

[Pegasos]

Its awsum that this mod is so popular. The number of pages is maybe sum kinda record.

 

[miracle]

Oh, really great mod - I play already soooo long.. Great tanks, Kael!

A balance issue for current revision. Siege units now are really strange.
Catapults.
As for collateral damage catapults are infinity times inferior to mages. With power 3 catapult is weaker than a fireball. And using catapult in attack of enemy city cause permanent lose of catapult, but attack with fireball does not mean lose of mage.
So attacking of catapults is inprofitable from economy view and pointless from war strategy - they are really too weak, espetially in the middle and second part of game.
Sure, you tell they are weaker replace for mages for non-magic civilizations, but now they are too weak in assault for anythig close to 'replace'...

AI still tries to use them for collateral damage... Once he tried to retake his city after I capture it. He strikes it with 5 catapults in row and my defending forces recieved only little bruises

On the case of bombardment situation is fully reversed - catapults are great bombarders! 3 catapults will reduce 80% defence to 8% in 2 turns. With easy accessible mobility promotion it catapult can move to city, bombard, other army move too, on second turn catapults bombard, army attacks. Too fast with really not too many catapults...

As for the cannons... I dont know I never ever bother to build them - power is little, I prefer meteors for collateral damage, and bombarding is good enough in catapult. Really - I've build 6 catapults in the middle game before go to first conquest, and have all of them till the end of game...

My proposal:
- decrease bombard ability of catapults
- increase power value of catapult or add unit like "improved catapult" with better power in the middle of game.
- increase power of cannon.

P.S. I hope in Phase 2 catapults will do real ranged attack - without going to combat and it will be gread, but now....

 

[miracle]

Oh, one more thing.
As I understand, Philosofical trait supposed not to pay upkeep for education civics... But I play Marina of Merfolks, and still pay education upkeep

 

[Caleb_kreegan]

Kael you are right when you say that listening to HOMM music reminds you the game because it also happens to me. It's just that, in my opinion, it's more realistic to hear a some kind of gloomy (but very good music) theme when you are playing with undead (Nielduh), for example, instead of listening to Asoka or Gandhi's theme that remind you to the India.

On the other hand, it's necessary to take into account many people don't know HOMM or maybe they've not played to previous versions to HOMM4 so I'm sure they would like the music.

Anyway, I'm convinced that you have a lot of music to use in this great mod (kinda fantastic music I hope) because is an important aspect to enter in atmosphere.

 

[cordas]

My proposal:
- decrease bombard ability of catapults
- increase power value of catapult or add unit like "improved catapult" with better power in the middle of game.
- increase power of cannon.

P.S. I hope in Phase 2 catapults will do real ranged attack - without going to combat and it will be gread, but now....

Could bombard damage be changed to also do damage to units defending the city (and fortress)? Catapults really weren't used as front line forces, they where designed to stand back and throw big rocks

If you want an improved catapult I would go with Trebuchet.

 

[Kael]

Kael you are right when you say that listening to HOMM music reminds you the game because it also happens to me. It's just that, in my opinion, it's more realistic to hear a some kind of gloomy (but very good music) theme when you are playing with undead (Nielduh), for example, instead of listening to Asoka or Gandhi's theme that remind you to the India.

On the other hand, it's necessary to take into account many people don't know HOMM or maybe they've not played to previous versions to HOMM4 so I'm sure they would like the music.

Anyway, I'm convinced that you have a lot of music to use in this great mod (kinda fantastic music I hope) because is an important aspect to enter in atmosphere.

True enough. I added a bunch of diplo sounds in .95. They will probably stay like they are for 1.0. But there are no vanilla diplo sounds used in the phase 2 civs, they are all replaced.

 

[Kael]

Oh, one more thing.
As I understand, Philosofical trait supposed not to pay upkeep for education civics... But I play Marina of Merfolks, and still pay education upkeep

Ick, your right. It just doesnt work. Let me see what I can do.

 

[cordas]

Is there any news about a release date for the peice of magic that will let you release version 1?

 

[Kael]

Is there any news about a release date for the peice of magic that will let you release version 1?

No, sorry. I login and look for it everyday too.

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

i think a great range weapon would be flaming catapult why shoot rocks when you can fire flaming masses at your opponents. possible bonuses destroy land upgrades with the bombard. cause bomb like small damage to cities. * jsut small damage*

also can add flaming catapult and ships together to get a coastal attack ship *like ironclad* which fires flaming catapults at other ships and cities this would also be an upgrade. maybe call the ship flame galley or something

also catpults should get a coastal bombard for attacking ships as they were sued that way

 

[Kael]

i think a great range weapon would be flaming catapult why shoot rocks when you can fire flaming masses at your opponents. possible bonuses destroy land upgrades with the bombard. cause bomb like small damage to cities. * jsut small damage*

also can add flaming catapult and ships together to get a coastal attack ship *like ironclad* which fires flaming catapults at other ships and cities this would also be an upgrade. maybe call the ship flame galley or something

also catpults should get a coastal bombard for attacking ships as they were sued that way

That would be cool in a non-fantasy mod. In this mod I think it would come to close to the spell effects and tend to make them seem less special. But it would be neat to see a non-fantasy mod add catapaults that can fire 1 range fireballs.

 

[miracle]

Uh. Winned the game by domination
Very exciting!
Thank you again for nice game!
And curse you for stealing my sleep time!

Nevertheless, one more balance issue.
Naval forces are inbalanced now

I will not repeat dreams about leviathans or ghost ships Let's see what we have right now:
- Queen of the Line - late game warship and transport
- Galleon - medium game transport
- Privater - medium game warship and spy ship.

Problems:
- Galleon are faster that privateer
- Galleon is almost twice cheaper than privateer
- Galleon only a little weaker than privater. Combined with much lower cost and transport compatbility it is better to have 2 galleons instead of one privateer for naval battles - 2 galleons always sink single privateer. Left only few privateer to spy for peacefull enemies.
- Queen of the Line is very nice ship, I love it much. Nice naming But! It have veeeeery big transport capatibility - in late game only one ship really exists - queen. No need for escort, no chance to sink low protected transport convoy

My proposal (very humble, of course):
- increase Galleon cargo from 3 to 4
- decrease Galleon speed from 4 to 3
- increase Galleon cost from 80 to 110
- increase Privater speed from 3 to 4
- add Privater about 25% chance of escape
- decrease Queen of the Line cargo from 7 to 2
- add Queen little bombard & collateral damage values.
- remove upgrade from galleon to Queen

or something like it...

Supposed it will give:
- Galleon - main transport till end of game
- Privateer - fast and nimble skirmisher
- Queen - powerful warship with some transport capatibilities.

Other way will be give privateer the Command promotion (may be with lover capture change value) - it also can be intresting...

 

[Maarak]

Kael, I have to hand it to you. You continue to troubleshoot for everyone that posts a problem or that raises a question, regardless of whether it's been answered once or 10 times already.

I'll once again raise the idea of creating a wiki or at least an expanded FAQ on the first page to relieve the tedium of having to post the same things again and again.

Topics that continue to be raised:
-Are the current civs the final ones? (no, the final ones will be in phase 2. the current ones are from Haarbal's mod)
-why are there no UU? (will be added in phase 2)
-why does civ X ally with civ Y when one is good and the other is evil? (see question's 1 and 2)
-why aren't there dragons? (there aren't any appropriate 3d models)
-why aren't there vampires? (There will be a vampire civ in phase 2 with a unique method of implimenting this. Will be unlike werewolves)
-Can you add X unit, where X is a unit concept taken from another fictional fantasy world (This mod is based off of a fantasy world created by Kael and it seems that he wants to keep this unique.)

and of course a short list of technical fixes that people ask frequently.

Don't misunderstand me, I like many of the creative suggestions that are posted. I just want to make the forum a little more streamlined and allow Kael to focus on modding, not forcing him to be a moderator of this forum.

[edited to add some sample answers]

 

[Kael]

Oh, one more thing.
As I understand, Philosofical trait supposed not to pay upkeep for education civics... But I play Marina of Merfolks, and still pay education upkeep

This problem is kinda kicking my butt. I found out that not matter what civic option you set as no upkeep you always get the first civic (Government) for free. I will keep playing with it, the logic on upkeep costs is a bit convulted.

 

[Kael]

My proposal (very humble, of course):
- increase Galleon cargo from 3 to 4
- decrease Galleon speed from 4 to 3
- increase Galleon cost from 80 to 110
- increase Privater speed from 3 to 4
- add Privater about 25% chance of escape
- decrease Queen of the Line cargo from 7 to 2
- add Queen little bombard & collateral damage values.
- remove upgrade from galleon to Queen

or something like it...

Okay Im going to make the following changes in 1.0 based on your feedback:

18. Galleon cargo increased from 3 to 4.
19. Galleon speed decreased from 4 to 3.
20. Galleon cost increased from 80 to 110.
21. Privateer speed increased from 3 to 4.
22. Privateer given a 25% withdrawal rate.
23. Queen of the Line cargo decreased from 7 to 6.

The goal is to break the Queen into 2 ships one of which is a late game fighter and the other is a late game cargo ship. They got merged as one super ship for simplicity. In phase 2 expect to see a more well rounded naval selection (its one of Loki's many pet projects).

I cant emphasize enough how much the Arcane Barge changes naval combat. Even though the Queen if bigger and tougher, the fireballing barges more than hold their ground.

But I do think the changes you suggested will help improve the naval aspects, thanks!

 

[Kael]

Kael, I have to hand it to you. You continue to troubleshoot for everyone that posts a problem or that raises a question, regardless of whether it's been answered once or 10 times already.

I'll once again raise the idea of creating a wiki or at least an expanded FAQ on the first page to relieve the tedium of having to post the same things again and again.

Topics that continue to be raised:
-Are the current civs the final ones? (no, the final ones will be in phase 2. the current ones are from Haarbal's mod)
-why are there no UU? (will be added in phase 2)
-why does civ X ally with civ Y when one is good and the other is evil? (see question's 1 and 2)
-why aren't there dragons? (there aren't any appropriate 3d models)
-why aren't there vampires? (There will be a vampire civ in phase 2 with a unique method of implimenting this. Will be unlike werewolves)
-Can you add X unit, where X is a unit concept taken from another fictional fantasy world (This mod is based off of a fantasy world created by Kael and it seems that he wants to keep this unique.)

and of course a short list of technical fixes that people ask frequently.

Don't misunderstand me, I like many of the creative suggestions that are posted. I just want to make the forum a little more streamlined and allow Kael to focus on modding, not forcing him to be a moderator of this forum.

[edited to add some sample answers]

I will add them.