[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Mr.Earl]

I've recently downloaded this mod and it's a lot better than I expected. (I'm not a big fantasy guy)

There's one thing I don't get though, (well actually two) The Apocalympse and Plight wonders. Why would you wand to kill half everyone including your own civilization's population, or burn up your own food and plains and stuff? To me that seems like launching nukes into the middle of nowhere just to start global warming. Can AIs build them? I'm not asking you to delete these wonders, just tell me why you added them. Mabye you could make one of them build some sort of Grim Reaper World Unit or somthing?

 

[Kael]

I've recently downloaded this mod and it's a lot better than I expected. (I'm not a big fantasy guy)

There's one thing I don't get though, (well actually two) The Apocalympse and Plight wonders. Why would you wand to kill half everyone including your own civilization's population, or burn up your own food and plains and stuff? To me that seems like launching nukes into the middle of nowhere just to start global warming. Can AIs build them? I'm not asking you to delete these wonders, just tell me why you added them. Mabye you could make one of them build some sort of Grim Reaper World Unit or somthing?

Apocolypse allows technically superior but militarily inferior civs the ability to strike back, Blight allows small countries to strike against large countries. There are reasons to cast them. Some players have noticesd that if they cast Blood of the phoenix before Apocolypse then the immortal promotion will protect them from Apocolypse.

Likewise Genesis and Yggdrasil help against blight because they provide extra food to your cities to help you regrow your cities quickly (infirmarys and any +1 health and +growth buildings actually help you recover quickly from Blight). Blight also doesn't effect sea resources so seafaring civs, and any civ with a lot of lighthouses usually do well against it.

I guess there are a lot of strategies. They are in the game as massive events that players have to deal with and to break the massive stalemate games that sometimes develop.

In phase 2 we are planning out a new method for armageddon spells that will be a bit more involved. We are hoping for a Armageddon counter which can be increased and decreased by actions in the game. Increasing the counter opens access to the armageddon spells, avatar units, etc. We are also hoping to have an option in the startup menu that allows to to turn the armageddon counter on or off (so you can play without it and armageddon spells entirely if you prefer). And the FfH editor will allow you to easily disable any wonders you don't like.

Thats a lot of stuff on just 2 wonders. I hope it answers your questions.

 

[Mesix]

I have downloaded the Fall from Heaven mod and have been playing it for a few days now. I really like the attention to detail, especially the added artwork and music.

One of my favorite features in the game is the unique units/heroes. The Baron with lacanthropsy is a nice touch. I like how the wearwolves upgrade to higher level units. This is a feature that could be expaned upon and made useful for other types of units. I think that the heroes need some work though. The way that they earn experience every turn is a bit unbalancing. Simply build hero, leave in city and allow to level up.

I read some of the other posts about how the game starts slowly and good defenders are hard to come by in the early game. Perhaps each civilization could start with a low level hero (say a str 3 or 4 with one special ability). As the hero is used he will upgrade like the wearwolves do. This would allow you to give each civ a different flavor right from the start and introduce some of the new features immediately.

One thing that I thought could be done differently is the undead. Having the undead be a civ that simply builds citys and produces the same units as other civs seems wrong. Perhaps you could have the undead pop up as a barbarian civ when certain techs are researched (like follow the dark path). They could have units that spread undead and level up similar to the wearwolves. By making the undead into a roving barbarian civ all of the players (computer and human controlled) will share in their hatred and attack them. A war on the undead would not cause war weariness either.

Another (more advanced) idea that I had would be to make races kind of like religions. When a civ starts out they could be one race such as human, elf, dwarf, etc. Other races could migrate into their cities as contact is established. Buildings and units that are unique to each race would not be available unless that race is present in the city.

These are just my initial impressions. I read that you are going to incorporate more into the different races and magic system in phase 2. I look forward to seeing these innovations when you release them.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

IMO, heroes aren't unbalancing. I usually have one or two units around since the begining that are much more useful than the one or two heroes I have, because I can upgrade them. By the time a hero had gained it's 100 exp, units with much higher base str. are availible.

It might be fun if hero could be traded, like the barb. axe. Kill a Hero, become a hero!

 

[Mesix]

Maybe unbalancing wasn't the right word. It just seems to me that a hero should have to be active doing something to earn exp. Hanaing out at his house in the city doesn't seem quite right. Maybe heroes could explore, have quests, etc.

 

[naf4ever]

Not sure if this has been touched on but is there a way to tell which world hero units have already been built?

 

[Kael]

I have downloaded the Fall from Heaven mod and have been playing it for a few days now. I really like the attention to detail, especially the added artwork and music.

One of my favorite features in the game is the unique units/heroes. The Baron with lacanthropsy is a nice touch. I like how the wearwolves upgrade to higher level units. This is a feature that could be expaned upon and made useful for other types of units. I think that the heroes need some work though. The way that they earn experience every turn is a bit unbalancing. Simply build hero, leave in city and allow to level up.

I read some of the other posts about how the game starts slowly and good defenders are hard to come by in the early game. Perhaps each civilization could start with a low level hero (say a str 3 or 4 with one special ability). As the hero is used he will upgrade like the wearwolves do. This would allow you to give each civ a different flavor right from the start and introduce some of the new features immediately.

All of the civs are being redone in phase 2. Some will have early game heroes, some will have late game heroes. One of the Bannor's UU's is a warrior replacement that has increased city defense, one of the Doviello's UU's is a warrior replacement with increased city attack. Some civs have a handful of UU's while others are almost all UU's (orcs, elves, dwarves).

One thing that I thought could be done differently is the undead. Having the undead be a civ that simply builds citys and produces the same units as other civs seems wrong. Perhaps you could have the undead pop up as a barbarian civ when certain techs are researched (like follow the dark path). They could have units that spread undead and level up similar to the wearwolves. By making the undead into a roving barbarian civ all of the players (computer and human controlled) will share in their hatred and attack them. A war on the undead would not cause war weariness either.

I agree. The civs that are in now were incorporated from a mod Haarbal made to go with Fall from Heaven. He did such a good job on it and I was so impressed with the difference it made to have fantasy civs in instead of the default civ4 ones that I added them into 0.95. But the civs I always planned for the mod won't come until phase 2. And there is no undead civ in phase 2.

Another (more advanced) idea that I had would be to make races kind of like religions. When a civ starts out they could be one race such as human, elf, dwarf, etc. Other races could migrate into their cities as contact is established. Buildings and units that are unique to each race would not be available unless that race is present in the city.

There are true racial civs in phase 2. We are planning for some neutral races like lizardmen that will have to be conquered before they can be used. Once conquered you will get 3 emmigrants that can be taken to your cities and used to build districts for that creature type. After that you will have access to special units for that creature type. That addition isn't scheduled until Shadow.

 

[Kael]

Not sure if this has been touched on but is there a way to tell which world hero units have already been built?

No, that would be a cool popup to have though. A screen that shows all of the heroes and if they haven't been born yet, are currently alive, or if they are dead.

 

[Black Whole]

There are true racial civs in phase 2. We are planning for some neutral races like lizardmen that will have to be conquered before they can be used. Once conquered you will get 3 emmigrants that can be taken to your cities and used to build districts for that creature type. After that you will have access to special units for that creature type. That addition isn't scheduled until Shadow.

What do you mean with 'Shadow'? I think you also said something about 'Fire'.

 

[Sisonpyh]

Kael you and your team's ideas keep getting better and better. By the time you're done we will be playing an entirely different game. Your mod will probably contain more content than whole Warlords expansion by the time it's released.

If you're not an undercover firaxis employee (jk, I'd still love you in the most heterosexual way even if you were.), I applaud you

 

[Kael]

What do you mean with 'Shadow'? I think you also said something about 'Fire'.

Phase 2 is broken into 4 pieces, "Light", "Fire", "Shadow" and "Ice". The requirements list for phase 2 was daunting but by breaking the major features into 4 pieces it lets us concentrate on what we need for the next release instead of getting overwhlemed.

 

[Muchoslap]

Great mod, really awesome. thanks

 

[AljayBoy]

Hello all, had a thought when reading about the Apocalypse and Armageddon wonders etc at the top of the page, it reminded me of a post in which someone mentioned that the Apocalypse wonder would be better if instead of halving everyones unit numbers, it made everyone in permanent war with each other, friend and foe alike. Just thought this idea deserves a bit of consideration. The wonder could still half everyones unit amount too, or even better IMO, it could double the amount of military units in the world. Maybe its the builder of wonder only which gets their military units doubled or not lose any, either way everyone is at war for the rest of the game.

 

[TheJopa]

This mod is superb, addictive, great... I liked it from start and it gets better and better with each version. Fantasy races are giant leap forward, and I can hardly wait for real stuff, phase 2 races!
1) I don't know if anyone reported this but Yggdrassil wonder gives +4% culture in city?! Maybe it was supposed to be 40%, or +4 raw culture? It was 4% from first FFH, but it seems pointless.
2) Second, maybe herbalist should give +10% healing to units inside city, and have slightly increased cost? So that they are more important, especialy in early-game barbarian invasions.
3) Public healers should have bonus health increased from 1 to 2. They are high upkeep after all.
4) Stygian guard and Eidolon «are demons and heal faster than man, as indicated by their medic 1 promotion». However, medic promotion heals faster all units in stack. I think that you was looking for something like combat 4/5 (Heals additional damage in enemy/neutral lands) Maybe you should create new promotion, «Regeneration», and give it to all demons: Heals extra 10% damage/turn in enemy/friendly/neutral lands, can heal while moving. Or just give March promotion to all demons. It just isn't right for demons to heal friendly units faster.
5) Also sentry 1 should have combat 2 as prerequisite instead combat 3.
6) Apprenticeship should have military unit production decreased from -10%=>-20% because 10% rarely makes even a turn difference.
7) Military discipline should be more powerful, I always choose apprenticeship as it is low upkeep and gives free experience.
8) Could you give great commanders, and also to some heroes, «Leadership» promotion, which increases strenght of all units in stack? (I saw that mod somewhere in this forums)
9) And finnaly, you could allow only one command post per 3 training grounds (like cathedrals in vanilla), organized races seem overpowered now.

 

[Kael]

This mod is superb, addictive, great... I liked it from start and it gets better and better with each version. Fantasy races are giant leap forward, and I can hardly wait for real stuff, phase 2 races!
1) I don't know if anyone reported this but Yggdrassil wonder gives +4% culture in city?! Maybe it was supposed to be 40%, or +4 raw culture? It was 4% from first FFH, but it seems pointless.

Yeah its supposed to be +4 culture. I'll change it.

2) Second, maybe herbalist should give +10% healing to units inside city, and have slightly increased cost? So that they are more important, especialy in early-game barbarian invasions.

Good idea, i'll add it.

3) Public healers should have bonus health increased from 1 to 2. They are high upkeep after all.

This will work a bit differently in phase 2. Basically there are new attitude features. One of them that the good races tend to judge you on is the compassion that you show your people, viewing you negativly for low setting in this civic category and positivly for public healers. Some of the neutral AIs care and some don't. None of the evil AI's care, in fact its reversed for the Calabim who think you are weak if you treat your people well and respect civs more if they treat their people badly.

4) Stygian guard and Eidolon «are demons and heal faster than man, as indicated by their medic 1 promotion». However, medic promotion heals faster all units in stack. I think that you was looking for something like combat 4/5 (Heals additional damage in enemy/neutral lands) Maybe you should create new promotion, «Regeneration», and give it to all demons: Heals extra 10% damage/turn in enemy/friendly/neutral lands, can heal while moving. Or just give March promotion to all demons. It just isn't right for demons to heal friendly units faster.

Your right, I'll remove it and replace it with march like you suggest.

5) Also sentry 1 should have combat 2 as prerequisite instead combat 3.

The reason this comes later is because it can be so powerful in protecting your nation against barbarians, so i wanted it to come a bit later.

6) Apprenticeship should have military unit production decreased from -10%=>-20% because 10% rarely makes even a turn difference.
7) Military discipline should be more powerful, I always choose apprenticeship as it is low upkeep and gives free experience.

I am looking into both of these for phase 2, they probably ownt change in 1.0 though.

8) Could you give great commanders, and also to some heroes, «Leadership» promotion, which increases strenght of all units in stack? (I saw that mod somewhere in this forums)[/quote]

The idea is good but the AI is unaware of it, so it doesn't take advantage of it like a human player does. Since it could offer a significant strategic advantage I haven't added any of the "stack beneifit" effects.

9) And finnaly, you could allow only one command post per 3 training grounds (like cathedrals in vanilla), organized races seem overpowered now.

I'll check this out for phase 2.

Thanks for the feedback. Im going to put in your recommended changes for march instead of medic for demons, the boost to the herbalist and the fix on Yggdrasil. Thanks!

 

[subanark]

1. I think the hero units are simply too powerful. I can often march a hero unit into city after city alone and overtake the defenders. Perhaps if their power could be towned down and then allow them to be upgraded latter, or offer them less powerful promotions, or have them suffer fatigue (on attack).

2. The Mithril golem is not powerful enough (for its cost)... without any promotions I find it extremely slow, and not very effictive.

3. Werewolves should not be able to become more powerful after defeating a fireball, also their ability to automatically regenerate after becoming more powerful is just too much. Maybe just using a really powerful promotion would be better for them.

 

[Kael]

1. I think the hero units are simply too powerful. I can often march a hero unit into city after city alone and overtake the defenders. Perhaps if their power could be towned down and then allow them to be upgraded latter, or offer them less powerful promotions, or have them suffer fatigue (on attack).

What difficulty do you play on?

2. The Mithril golem is not powerful enough (for its cost)... without any promotions I find it extremely slow, and not very effictive.

Have you ever tried to attack a city with one defending? Ouch.

3. Werewolves should not be able to become more powerful after defeating a fireball, also their ability to automatically regenerate after becoming more powerful is just too much. Maybe just using a really powerful promotion would be better for them.

Both good points. I'll make sure werewolves damage carries over and they cant powerup after defeating non-living units in phase 2.

 

[darkedone02]

Here are some things that i wish to be put into the mod

-be able to turn any religion on and off before the start of the game.
-Be able to obsulate (sp>) units for more organized and powerful units to deploy.
-reduce lag
-More custom units along with good skins
-Animated Leader's in Doplomacy Screen (instead of puting Artwork in)
-More custom Music
-Different Era's

Please put these on your mod, and tell me, are you still going to update this game for Civilization 4, or are you going to move on to the Warlord Expansion?

 

[Kael]

Here are some things that i wish to be put into the mod

-be able to turn any religion on and off before the start of the game.

Why would you like to be able to disable religions? We probably ownt add this as a menu option, but this will be easy to do in the FfH editor.

-Be able to obsulate (sp>) units for more organized and powerful units to deploy.

Im not getting what word you mean by "obsulate", could you describe it a bit more.

-reduce lag

This is probably more of a Firaxis thing than a FfH thing. But everything we add has a processor cost, so there is a good and a bad. we try to be as efficient as possible.

-More custom units along with good skins

I agree, I put them in as they become available. C.Roland and Chalid have done a TON of work on FfH and are responsible for 90% of the new art that is there. Lately Rabbits new models have been going in, which is awesome.

-Animated Leader's in Doplomacy Screen (instead of puting Artwork in)

We mocked up both reskined leaderheads and new 2d art. In the end I was more impressed with the 2d art (none of the leader pictures in phase 1 are used in phase 2) just because no matter how well the leaderhead was skinned it still looked like a "painted version of ceasar" and there simply weren't enough leaderheads in the game to do what we wanted to do.

-More custom Music

I agree. I only use freely available songs for the tracks (those the owners allow to be freely downloaded) although I do use some small cuts of commerical tracks for 10-20 second cuts. My own particular morale line.

-Different Era's

Eras will be added as religions are added. In FfH we use eras to distinguish what religion you belong to (so your city graphics and soundtrack are based on your religion, not your tech level).

Please put these on your mod, and tell me, are you still going to update this game for Civilization 4, or are you going to move on to the Warlord Expansion?

Warlords is still way out. They say summer of this year, which probably means winter or sping of next year.

So who knows. To early to tell.

 

[naf4ever]

What exactly do the "Body" and "Spell extension" promotions do? They dont have a description.