[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[MightyGooga]

Wow, I´ve been out for a couple of days and we already got 5 pages of FRUITFULL CREATIVE material! I know you must be happy Kael.

Question: Are you going to use HAARBAL´s civilizations?(I finaly learned that HAARBAL´S civilization is not One civilization, but a group designed by Haarbal). If you are, the BANNER thing is not working. You said goblins are not playing a major role ins this mod. But the Goblin civilization is fantastic. So you might want to think about the roles of the civilizations before including them.

Observation: The AI is not attaking me, i rarerly see any of the, elvish, orcish, giantish figures... Im playing a normal game. But I really worked on the slow expansion thing, built lots of warriors.

I have to agree that the early game is kind of slow. It is a nice expansion ideia, but there must be more... More early buildings, units.

The specific unit buildg can be a pain in the S, But I guess thats becouse they dont have flavour. Naming, giving them a history background, will help.

But STILL, CAN ANYONE STOP PLAYING THIS??? NO I DONT THINK SO.

 

[Dragonlord]

I would be really surprised if it had something to do with Haarbals civ mod, the two things should be unrelated. I would suspect that you are have a file corruption issue with the two images. If you have a dds viewer you could go into Mods/Fall from Heaven 070/Asstes/art/interface/buttons/buildings/tavern.dds and publicbaths.dds and check them out. Otherwise you may want to redownload the mod.

OK, if its not a general problem it's not an issue. If you're still planning 0.80 for Friday (I hope!), I'll wait to DL till then.. so I can finish a game for a change..

 

[Kael]

Wow, I´ve been out for a couple of days and we already got 5 pages of FRUITFULL CREATIVE material! I know you must be happy Kael.

Question: Are you going to use HAARBAL´s civilizations?(I finaly learned that HAARBAL´S civilization is not One civilization, but a group designed by Haarbal). If you are, the BANNER thing is not working. You said goblins are not playing a major role ins this mod. But the Goblin civilization is fantastic. So you might want to think about the roles of the civilizations before including them.

Observation: The AI is not attaking me, i rarerly see any of the, elvish, orcish, giantish figures... Im playing a normal game. But I really worked on the slow expansion thing, built lots of warriors.

I have to agree that the early game is kind of slow. It is a nice expansion ideia, but there must be more... More early buildings, units.

The specific unit buildg can be a pain in the S, But I guess thats becouse they dont have flavour. Naming, giving them a history background, will help.

But STILL, CAN ANYONE STOP PLAYING THIS??? NO I DONT THINK SO.

It was Loki that said that Goblins don't play a major part (though Loki has read some of the world history so he knows what he's talking about).

Im not sure whats going to happen with Haarbals civs yet. I have a bunch of Civ's designed for this mod which are unrelated to Haarbals and are coming in Phase 2. Haarbal has done an awesome job with the Civ's he has created and he is welcome to continue making them.

I suspect that Haarbals civs will always be available to add even more Civ's beyond any that are included with the mod. But whatever Haarbal wants is cool with me, he has a list of all the Civs that will be included in Phase 2 so he can think about how they relate with his if he wants.

Elves and Giants are pretty rare. There are no orcs in the game. I wanted to be able turn all the barbarian units into orcs but I don't have access to the code I need to do it.

 

[Kael]

OK, if its not a general problem it's not an issue. If you're still planning 0.80 for Friday (I hope!), I'll wait to DL till then.. so I can finish a game for a change..

Yeap, it is definitly on for Friday. It is code lockdown now and has been delivered to the playtester. Im just working on Polish, Art and Balance issues from now till Friday.

 

[DarthCycle]

In the current 070 version, when looking at the technology tree, we don't see the lines between the tech boxes for most of the techs, is there a reason for this?

As a first timer in this mod, it makes understanding the tech tree dependencies a lot harder

 

[Kael]

In the current 070 version, when looking at the technology tree, we don't see the lines between the tech boxes for most of the techs, is there a reason for this?

As a first timer in this mod, it makes understanding the tech tree dependencies a lot harder

Im afraid that is due to the engine. The game draws line for OR connectors (you can get to that tech if you know tech1 OR tech2) which the origional games uses a lot of. But I use AND connectors (to get to that tech you have to know tech1 AND tech2) which the game doesn't draw lines for.

I tried to lay them out so they make sense, and you can click any tech and see what it lights up to show has to be learned to reach it. But I know it can be baffling at first (well, and later too).

Once the tech tree gets finalized (I want to clean it up a bit before Phase 1 is done) I will see if I can do some diagrams and include them in the pedia to make it easier.

 

[MightyGooga]

Kael,

Dont want to bother too much, but is there any chace that you will pos a file with all your objectives for this mod. I mean, history, where do you want it to go, what level of complexity your expecting and stuff like that?

It seems to me that people are giving a lot of ideias, and some of them are far away from the line you been following.

QUESTION: Im playing at NOBLE level, the AI still isn´t attacking, We are beyond expasion phase and still. Those whimps are holding out on me.

 

[Kael]

Kael,

Dont want to bother too much, but is there any chace that you will pos a file with all your objectives for this mod. I mean, history, where do you want it to go, what level of complexity your expecting and stuff like that?

It seems to me that people are giving a lot of ideias, and some of them are far away from the line you been following.

QUESTION: Im playing at NOBLE level, the AI still isn´t attacking, We are beyond expasion phase and still. Those whimps are holding out on me.

I don't know about the AI, I certainly don't have a problem with it attacking me. Have you tries selecting the 'Aggresive AI' option when you start your games?

Yeah, before I started the mod I wrote a huge design doc for it so I would have a goal clear in my head. The design doc has nothing to do with what is possible, its just the game I want, I will try my best to get as close to it as I can.

Since I released 0.50 I have gotten a ton of ideas from this thread and in private emails from the folks here. Those that I agree with are added to the design doc (Loki and Woodelf are huge contributors here), those that I don't agree with aren't. I might not add an idea even if it is good because it just doesnt match the spirit of what I am trying to do or I think the processor cost of implementing outweighs the advantage of having it.

I won't post the full design doc because it lists a lot of stuff that I don't want revealed yet. Such as the scenerios, plot outline, etc. The design doc is also 34 pages, so its a bit of a beast to post. Occasionally I will send off parts to those working on related sections (those doing writing for the mod recieved a copy of the world history) and sometimes I will post pieces here (such as the spell table and sphere chart). But I like having some mystery in the mod too. It makes the world seem more real if their are hints of a history scattered through it and it isn't as cut and dry as my notes and tables are.

I know that hasn't had much effect yet (since Im really just getting the features up and running and haven't done much work on the world polish) but I think thats where a lot of work is going to go into between now and the close of phase 1. Phase 2 (the introduction of the civs) will bring a lot more of that in as well.

Is there something specific you would like to see?

 

[MightyGooga]

Yes, I´d like to see the history of the world. But than again, I also wanna keep this feeling of exploring your new world, thats 70% of the fun for me, the other 30% is CIV 4. I totally understand the desire of leting tiny pieces of information roam arouind, so people get curious about it. The "Aura" of the game evolves a lot with that.

In the Other hand, participating in its creation is also a very good deal of FUN. I think I´ll keep giving the small ideias, and wait until yoú use one.

BACK TO WORK: Pictures, so what have you decided? Are you going to borrow the CIV 3 MODS pictures? I think thats a good cost-benefit issue. The have tons of it.

Have you ever read a RPG BOOK called MAGE? The same producers of Vampire, and Werewolf. Lots of ideias there, if you need more clues where to find it, PM me, I´ll send you stuff.

 

[Kidinnu]

Im afraid that is due to the engine. The game draws line for OR connectors (you can get to that tech if you know tech1 OR tech2) which the origional games uses a lot of. But I use AND connectors (to get to that tech you have to know tech1 AND tech2) which the game doesn't draw lines for.

I tried to lay them out so they make sense, and you can click any tech and see what it lights up to show has to be learned to reach it. But I know it can be baffling at first (well, and later too).

Once the tech tree gets finalized (I want to clean it up a bit before Phase 1 is done) I will see if I can do some diagrams and include them in the pedia to make it easier.

Maybe you missed an earlier post of mine about that on this thread - if you have one 'OR', that's functionally equivalent to an 'AND'. So you can get some lines drawn in by looking at each tech that has one or two ANDs and changing one to an OR. Vanilla Civ4 does this for lots of techs. It might take several hours futzing with layouts to make it cleaner, but IMHO it would make the mod more playable.

 

[Kael]

Maybe you missed an earlier post of mine about that on this thread - if you have one 'OR', that's functionally equivalent to an 'AND'. So you can get some lines drawn in by looking at each tech that has one or two ANDs and changing one to an OR. Vanilla Civ4 does this for lots of techs. It might take several hours futzing with layouts to make it cleaner, but IMHO it would make the mod more playable.

My problem with this is that using an OR and an AND causes the OR line to get drawn and the AND line doesn't. Which is my mine is more confusing than having no lines, since it will look like you only need 1 tech when you really need two. Unless I am missing something.

 

[Kael]

Yes, I´d like to see the history of the world. But than again, I also wanna keep this feeling of exploring your new world, thats 70% of the fun for me, the other 30% is CIV 4. I totally understand the desire of leting tiny pieces of information roam arouind, so people get curious about it. The "Aura" of the game evolves a lot with that.

In the Other hand, participating in its creation is also a very good deal of FUN. I think I´ll keep giving the small ideias, and wait until yoú use one.

BACK TO WORK: Pictures, so what have you decided? Are you going to borrow the CIV 3 MODS pictures? I think thats a good cost-benefit issue. The have tons of it.

Have you ever read a RPG BOOK called MAGE? The same producers of Vampire, and Werewolf. Lots of ideias there, if you need more clues where to find it, PM me, I´ll send you stuff.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I am really trying to do 2 things here. 1 is to make a fun Civ4 Mod and the other is to tell a story. The story party is the side I protect. The mod side I will talk about all day long.

But since you asked, here is a blurb from the flavor doc. I attached the world history from the design doc, it is to long to put in a post. The history covers from the begining to the 4th age (which is when the mod begins, though scenerios could evenutally cover the other ages too).

It was a place so it dark it would drive the mortal mind mad.

“Why would you create a place like this? You remember as well as I the pleasures of heaven, it was a place of light of beauty. I can’t believe you don't still yearn for it as I do.”

“It is because I remember it that I created this.” Agares responded from an area somehow blacker than the rest. “I have created grand palaces, entire worlds of starlight and gold and the imperfection of them screams out to me. So fresh is my memory of heaven that I can see nothing but the flaws of everything else. Doesn’t it anger you that everything you create is lacking that basic perfection that he so easily made?”

Sucellus stood silently, in the limitless emptiness of this place Agares’s almost palatable jealousy writhed and finally settled.

Finally Agares spoke. “Why have you come here?”

“To ask a question. So long ago you stole those crystals out of Heaven, you secreted them away so you would retain the power to create.”

Agares exploded again in anger. “So that we would have the power to create! The burden I bore I did for all of us. You can create freely now, using the gift that I provided, all the while cursing me for it. Do not continue your hypocrisy here. I am your rescuer and he is your jailer, do not confuse the two.”

Again Sucellus waited. When Agares’s anger settled he continued with his question. “Then why allow the men to find them, they had remained hidden for so long. What could possibly come of it?”

“Why do you think that I had anything to do with it?”

I should warn everyone that the attached (and the above flavor text) were never intended for public consumption. They were written just to make these characters real in my mind, so please forgive the quality of the writing.

 

[Kael]

BACK TO WORK: Pictures, so what have you decided? Are you going to borrow the CIV 3 MODS pictures? I think thats a good cost-benefit issue. The have tons of it.

The problem with the Civ3 buildings is they all look like 3d sprites (at least the ones I have seen), which isn't going to match the the rest very well. Still they are better than having everything use the same building button.

So Im going to try to get some pictures together before Firday and upgrade as many as I can. I need pictures for:

Archery Range
Bowyer
Gamling House
Hippodrome
Market
Smokehouse
Weaponsmith
Alchemy Lab
Basilica
Brewery
Elder Council
Stables
Bear Totem
Machinists Shop
Monkey Changer
Siege Workshop
Summoning Chamber
Large Animal Stables


ps okay one of those is a typo, but Ill leave it in just to see if you are paying attention.

 

[Deth]

Hi first time poster here love the mod keep up the great work.

By the way whats the going rate on bananas?

 

[Kael]

Hi first time poster here love the mod keep up the great work.

By the way whats the going rate on bananas?

heh,

 

[MightyGooga]

CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP ! CLAP clap cla..

Man, thats a good story. Im not talking about the writing, Im talking about the mood you created. From there we can go anywhere.

Im gonna look for the pics.

PS: If I miss any Typos, thats because Im from Brazil and I dont speak good english.

The writing, as far as I can say(Brazil), is very good also.

 

[Nedkjemp]

Yet again I would like to thank you for a wonderful module. I really enjoyed playing it after getting it to work properly (I didn't realize I had the wrong patch installed). There are some frustrating issues though, which you probably will have heard about from others as well, for example that some of the original buildings still can be built (like the Granary which seems very much the same as the Smokehouse). So instead of reporting issues which others most likely will have reported before me, I'd rather ask a question myself:

In the 0.80 upgrade will the Haarbal stuff be incorporated so you can choose civilizations of the appropriate names with leaderheads and such. Furthermore I wondered if there are any bugs related to this add-on as I keep reading about stuff I never seem to see myself (like goblins).

Keep up the good work.

 

[Kael]

Yet again I would like to thank you for a wonderful module. I really enjoyed playing it after getting it to work properly (I didn't realize I had the wrong patch installed). There are some frustrating issues though, which you probably will have heard about from others as well, for example that some of the original buildings still can be built (like the Granary which seems very much the same as the Smokehouse). So instead of reporting issues which others most likely will have reported before me, I'd rather ask a question myself:

In the 0.80 upgrade will the Haarbal stuff be incorporated so you can choose civilizations of the appropriate names with leaderheads and such. Furthermore I wondered if there are any bugs related to this add-on as I keep reading about stuff I never seem to see myself (like goblins).

Keep up the good work.

The difference between the Granary and the Smokehouse is that Granary is for all agriculture type goods (wheat, rice, corn) while the Smokehouse is for all meat goods (deer, pig, cow). Just like the Harbor is for all sea goods (crab, fish, clam). I was kinda surprised the game didn't have a building for civs that started out with meat resources like they did for the other sorts so I made the Smokehouse.

Haarbal's civs will not be in 0.80. Haarbal will be getting an early copy of the mod so he can get his civ's working with it so hopefully there will be a 0.80 version of Haarbal's mod soon after (or the day of) 0.80's release. But thats up to Haarbal.

That said the thing I change that really messes with Haarbal's ciuvs is the civics and they haven't changed much, if at all in 0.80 so it might not even need a change. As I said I will send to Haarbal so he can test.

As for the goblins, they are talking about Haarbal's goblin civ. Half the stuff (probably more than that) we talk about here is all future stuff so don't be confused by it, your not missing anything. We almost need 2 threads, one for future stuff, ideas and general chatting, and another specific to issues and stuff in the latest patch.

 

[Chammadai]

There are even two typos. When I saw the message for the first time I thought 'You mean the Gamling?!?'. It's quite amusing so I hope you won't change it.

I have just commenced some tests and found out that the three basic city development structures (market, obelisk and elder council) don't give the penalties at all. Not only are they not displayed next to the built building but they simply don't apply. Yet before you produce them it shows that they should give an appropriate penalty.

Another thought: You could add another question to faq: 'why are there no new unit models like dragons, angels or whatever'. This question seems to occur from time to time.

And I fully support your idea of developing the world your way . What is more I hope that some day Haarbal will decide to make his own mod where he would use all of his races, but still it's your approach that really attracts me to the mod - the religious clashes between different human cultures which are only supported by other beings. Keep up the good work

Cheers

 

[IamSid]

Great mod, but why don't the barbarian hill giants ever attack you??