[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

Hey everyone,

I have been following the Fall from Heaven mod for a while and have just gotten started playing a full game (ie one where i dont just spawn a bunch of stuff in world builder to see the new units). I really like this mod and see great potential in it so hats off to Kael for putting it together. I just started the game a noticed a few things. (note I have only read up to page 20 on the thread before I decided that playing FfH was more important) Firstly I have v0.7 and why is the market icon in the town the icon used for the obolisk in the original game? Secondly, I have noticed that along the map (highlands: large size with medium ridgelines and small lakes) there are lines that run both horazontally and vertically up into space (ie to the camera if you were looking straight down) I have experianced this line effect in the original game but with this mod it was much more noticable. I have only played on highlands so I dont know if it is just that map. Finally as the picture will indicte what the heck is going on here.

This problem only occured at that location and parts of the overlayed jungle stuff would go away depending on how you moved your screen. When I minimized civ and then maximized civ the jungle went away but left a large grey box in its place like the kind used for the terrain info and the like. Also when I went into world builder the jungle stuff (and later box) stayed.

Again I am not sure if this is a problem with civ or your mod, but thanks for doing such a great job with it as is. So far my general complaints are more of the same that has already been addressed in earlier posts (such as the tech tree clutter, having it really late in the game before you get jungle clearing and not having new civs) but I am sure that you will get these things sorted out to my satifaction before a final verson is released.

So if anyone could help clarify what is going on with my game that would be great and good work Kael. If there is anything you need help with just ask.
-Stidf

We are trying to come with more building graphics, some are currently being reused. 14 more and all the normal buildings will be good.

I have no idea about the graphics, I've never seen that.

 

[woodelf]

I saw that real early on. Might have something to do with low memory. Never with this mod, but with one when the game first came out. You're not alone Stidf, but I can't think of why I got rid of the problem. Post in the tech support area maybe?

 

[Olliff]

Great mod Kael! Very good job indeed. Ive now played through the game 4 times now. I enjoy the vast amounts of new content and civics. I aslo love the way you implemented the religons in a way that makes each of them unique. Unfortunately this mod falls shy of being of perfect.

Among the minor problems I encountered includes the strength of each religion. I think it can be safely said that both runes of kilomorph and the fellowship of leaves far out power the order and the Ashen Veil. This is due that both of the are reached ealier and have better civics/wonders/desirable paths needed to get them. When a players aims to beeline to kilomorph he gains a powerful production tech and the abillity to get axemen way too early in the game. Usually when i beeline(or almost go directly to this tech) I can build 4-5 axemen that can easily destroy all of the cities of all the nearby civs. This is due to this computer only defending with warriors. Its a complete slaughter. Arete is also strong.

Fellowship of Leaves is also a early religon. Although they cannot dominate with a powerful army like with runes they can gain early on health bonues and happiness bonuses. These bonues allow the player to build cites that are surrounded by unhealthy conditions without much of a consenquence.
The happiness bonus also help siginicantly.

The Overlords are reasonable powered. The Order and the Ashen Veil come late in the game. The civics attached to them are not as strong as well.


On another note I believe that the Oracle is undercosted. By the time I discover the tech I can usually build in very few turns. Whenever I build Wrath Unleashed my game crashes. This has happened on two accounts.

Thank you again for this wonderful mod and I hope you can use/incorparate/ gnore(my bad suggestions only) my suggestions to make this mod better.

Thank you Thank you Thank you

 

[Stidf]

More thoughts on the game now that ive played it more. As has been said before the first age takes and agonizingly long time to get out of. Also it takes FOREVER to get the ability to chop down jungle. This was a huge problem for me because where i started it would take me 20 turns to get to somewhere that wasnt surrounded by jungle. As a result i just got out teched and killed by a combo of barbs and an aggressive nieghbor. The high point for me in the game was my warrior who had experiance 56 and was constantly killing barb hunters as they kept attacking him as he was healing. So time for game #2.
-Stidf

Also another thing I went for runes and when I got dwarf studies it said that it unlocks arete but I was unable to make that my civic in the civics screen.

 

[Kael]

Great mod Kael! Very good job indeed. Ive now played through the game 4 times now. I enjoy the vast amounts of new content and civics. I aslo love the way you implemented the religons in a way that makes each of them unique. Unfortunately this mod falls shy of being of perfect.

Among the minor problems I encountered includes the strength of each religion. I think it can be safely said that both runes of kilomorph and the fellowship of leaves far out power the order and the Ashen Veil. This is due that both of the are reached ealier and have better civics/wonders/desirable paths needed to get them. When a players aims to beeline to kilomorph he gains a powerful production tech and the abillity to get axemen way too early in the game. Usually when i beeline(or almost go directly to this tech) I can build 4-5 axemen that can easily destroy all of the cities of all the nearby civs. This is due to this computer only defending with warriors. Its a complete slaughter. Arete is also strong.

Fellowship of Leaves is also a early religon. Although they cannot dominate with a powerful army like with runes they can gain early on health bonues and happiness bonuses. These bonues allow the player to build cites that are surrounded by unhealthy conditions without much of a consenquence.
The happiness bonus also help siginicantly.

The Overlords are reasonable powered. The Order and the Ashen Veil come late in the game. The civics attached to them are not as strong as well.


On another note I believe that the Oracle is undercosted. By the time I discover the tech I can usually build in very few turns. Whenever I build Wrath Unleashed my game crashes. This has happened on two accounts.

Thank you again for this wonderful mod and I hope you can use/incorparate/ gnore(my bad suggestions only) my suggestions to make this mod better.

Thank you Thank you Thank you

The Wrath CTD will be fixed in 0.80. I definitly appreciate the feedback. I think you are 100% correct about the Ashen Veil and Order. The Overlords are getting a significant boost in 0.80, but I don't think the Order and the Veil are as strong as they should be.

So that problem won't be address in 0.80 but I will see if I can't figure out something to even it out by 0.90.

 

[woodelf]

Kael - I love how Druids revitalize (terraform). Is there any way in the script to terraform up/down? It might not be too useful in FfH, but then again if you could make hills into impassable mountains you'd have a nice defense against most units. Also turning desert or lowlands into sea/coast would be cool. Maybe turning something into lava/volcano?

 

[Kael]

Kael - I love how Druids revitalize (terraform). Is there any way in the script to terraform up/down? It might not be too useful in FfH, but then again if you could make hills into impassable mountains you'd have a nice defense against most units. Also turning desert or lowlands into sea/coast would be cool. Maybe turning something into lava/volcano?

Yeap, very easy to now now that I got the terraforming down. The problem with all of this (and the reason the Defiler isn't in the game yet) is teaching the computer how to use them. You could imagine what a crazy mountain or ocean making computer unit would do to a game. You'd come across what was once a great country, now nothing more than a capital on a tiny island.

 

[woodelf]

Yeap, very easy to now now that I got the terraforming down. The problem with all of this (and the reason the Defiler isn't in the game yet) is teaching the computer how to use them. You could imagine what a crazy mountain or ocean making computer unit would do to a game. You'd come across what was once a great country, now nothing more than a capital on a tiny island.

Heh. I kind of like that idea. I world-eater unit.

What about making the terraforming cost some gold each time?

I know, I know.....it's hard to say if the AI would use it like a player. Damn AI.

 

[Sareln]

Hi again Kael - First off, finally finished a slog through 0.80 and I do like it quite a bit

Just an idea, but with the aim of strengthening the order and the veil, could you have the founding spawn both heros and a small army of special/unique units to go with them?

Also, for the order's civic (I can't recall the name right now), perhaps make it so that conquered/revolting cities spend less time revolting?

Also, I think that the veil's civic (Sacrifice the weak I assume)... could it also add to the science production alongside the commerce one? I know this would sorta double up... but the idea is to make the veil an "at any costs" sorta religion, maybe add an extra unhappy face as well?

Keep in mind, just ideas aimed at strengthening these religions.

 

[TheNewSaint]

In Reply to post #1108

This sort of thing is why PvP would be so much fun. Players can probably come up with ways to use units in combinations (Say, you have towers two spaces outside you border. They see the enemy coming. You rush a druid and a mage to the scene. The Druid roots the unit which is then pelted by fire balls. Meanwhile, the civ being pelted realizes this and sends two more units. The pelted unit dies, and the two others arive on scene. The controller places them on seperate tiles, so the druid can root only one. The other unit manages to take out the mage, but is killed while attacking the druid. The druid continues rooting the unit, waiting for backup to arrive... The AI would never do this. I think it should be called something other than A"I", because there's not a bunch of inteligence going on there. It would probably just have warriors in its city "defending" it.)

The AI is stupid... I hate it... If i could go inside the computer i would take a sharpened letter opener and...

Also, an idea i had for increasing population would be "Missionaries" (I use quotes because i dont think you'll use this name) They can convert a unit by defeating it, and it turns into a "Desciple" (this time I use quotes because i know that something else is already called this) that can do nothing but join the city to add population (or maybe, if you made "Task Masters", they could become "Slaves" that are sacrificed like dwarves for production).

I really hope this isnt already in the game, because then i just wasted your time...

 

[TheNewSaint]

In response to above post (i should really quote myself andothers, shouldnt i? )

Im really actually not sure about this idea, perhaps it does not fit. I mean, the people wouldnt willingly convert from one religion to another, would they? Perhaps you already have a unique unit like this planned for the followers of the octopuss overlords, that brainwashes units...

I must say, at first i thought this would be more fun with the 5 civs having a set religion, but now that you released part of the story i see that this is the same sort of idea as many mytholgy games, where there are a base of human units, but, if the civilizations can get a particular god to favor them, then that god may send help in the form of powerful monsters, a book of the secrets of Atlantis (or some other Utopian Civilization), or a godlike power such as raising the dead.

This will be much more than a mod... it will be an epic (and i dont mean the game speed either)

Edit: Im sorry for ruining that last line with the bad (very bad) attempted pun.

Oh and...

 

[loki1232]

In Reply to post #1108

This sort of thing is why PvP would be so much fun. Players can probably come up with ways to use units in combinations (Say, you have towers two spaces outside you border. They see the enemy coming. You rush a druid and a mage to the scene. The Druid roots the unit which is then pelted by fire balls. Meanwhile, the civ being pelted realizes this and sends two more units. The pelted unit dies, and the two others arive on scene. The controller places them on seperate tiles, so the druid can root only one. The other unit manages to take out the mage, but is killed while attacking the druid. The druid continues rooting the unit, waiting for backup to arrive... The AI would never do this. I think it should be called something other than A"I", because there's not a bunch of inteligence going on there. It would probably just have warriors in its city "defending" it.)

The AI is stupid... I hate it... If i could go inside the computer i would take a sharpened letter opener and...

Also, an idea i had for increasing population would be "Missionaries" (I use quotes because i dont think you'll use this name) They can convert a unit by defeating it, and it turns into a "Desciple" (this time I use quotes because i know that something else is already called this) that can do nothing but join the city to add population (or maybe, if you made "Task Masters", they could become "Slaves" that are sacrificed like dwarves for production).

I really hope this isnt already in the game, because then i just wasted your time...

PvP. Yes, however Civ IV multiplayer doesn't really work, so we need HOTSEAT to be fixed.

Also, I like the missionaries/disciples idea very much.

 

[loki1232]

Vampires are planned to be a Unique unit of the Calabim Civ. The Calabim are a culture of powerful Vampire aristocrats that rule over their human subjects with little concern for their health and happiness. Still the humans remain loyal to their masters, hoping they will somehow rise above their station, maybe even joining the vampire rnaks themselves one day (few do).

I decided not to do the bears with the laser eyes because its to stereotypical.

Yes, laser bears are everywhere.

I like the vampires. From the description it seems very ashen veil, but you said that you didn't want races to be bound into religions.

 

[loki1232]

Dancing Bear (building which grants a +1 happy bonus, can be build by sacrificing a bear (morally I do not like the idea, but bears were popular for this sort of thing in the middle ages)

Omg this is great, but doesn't work without their first being bears.

 

[loki1232]

1.Just an idea, but with the aim of strengthening the order and the veil, could you have the founding spawn both heros and a small army of special/unique units to go with them?

2.Also, for the order's civic (I can't recall the name right now), perhaps make it so that conquered/revolting cities spend less time revolting?

3.Also, I think that the veil's civic (Sacrifice the weak I assume)... could it also add to the science production alongside the commerce one? I know this would sorta double up... but the idea is to make the veil an "at any costs" sorta religion, maybe add an extra unhappy face as well?

1.I like this idea, but instead I thinkt hat each time the order spreads to a city without a religion, or defeats the Ashen Veil/Overlords or Order/Runes in a religious conflict, a hero/powerful unit should be spawned.

2.First of all, the order's civic should reduce maintinence costs since their sphere is law. Oh good idea: What if other civs got unhappiness for not having social order. This would encourage many to convert to the order.

3.Yes. Not much more to say actually. Maybe demon units get more XP?

 

[Kael]

Welcome back Loki.

 

[Kael]

Hi again Kael - First off, finally finished a slog through 0.80 and I do like it quite a bit

Just an idea, but with the aim of strengthening the order and the veil, could you have the founding spawn both heros and a small army of special/unique units to go with them?

Also, for the order's civic (I can't recall the name right now), perhaps make it so that conquered/revolting cities spend less time revolting?

Also, I think that the veil's civic (Sacrifice the weak I assume)... could it also add to the science production alongside the commerce one? I know this would sorta double up... but the idea is to make the veil an "at any costs" sorta religion, maybe add an extra unhappy face as well?

Keep in mind, just ideas aimed at strengthening these religions.

I actually did use to have Sacrifice the Weak give a research bonus but feedback on it suggested it didn't make much since so it went straight to money. Which is of course easy enough to turn into research by keeping your research percentage high.

I like the idea of having order cities spawn units. Maybe if your city gains the Order religion and your state religion is the Order you get a free Crusader or some such.

 

[Sareln]

Refining previous ideas on the order/veil

-Order cities spawn crusaders (or some other rank and file unit) every X turns, maybe with an EXP boost from base.
-Order Heros/Champions are spawned when the order wins a religious conflict in a city and your state religion is order.
-Order civic causes unhappiness similar to emancipation alongside everything else it does.


-Veil Buildings (I have not totally explored the veil, but the summon chamber or something) had a chance to spawn in lesser demons
-Civic boosts unit cap alongside other things.
-XP Bonuses for magi and demons.

Just thoughts. I'm still partial to the order being able to suppress rebellion faster due to thier regimentation, organization, etc.

 

[Kael]

Hi again Kael - First off, finally finished a slog through 0.80 and I do like it quite a bit

Just an idea, but with the aim of strengthening the order and the veil, could you have the founding spawn both heros and a small army of special/unique units to go with them?

Okay, that idea was to cool and I had to break code lockdown to get it in. I just tested it and it is working fine. If your state religion is the Order then whenever one of your cities adopts the Order a free Crusader is spawned in that city. It will be in 0.80. (I like your bigger ideas too, I just want to start with something smaller and see how it plays, especially since Im so close clsoe to wrapping 0.80).

I don't think its going to even the Order out with the ealry religions but I love the flavor of it. It encourages the order to build disciples, simulates the fact that the populace is being enlisted in the cause, and it will help the Order get to their heroes faster.

The reason it helps with the heroes is the heroes have unit requirements before the will join you. For the Order you have to have crusaders. If you have 4 Crusdaers then you will be able to recruit on of the heroes. If you have 8 Crusaders you will be able to recruit the 2nd hero. This will help Order get those heroes faster, hopefully make up some of the lead the earlier religions have.

Awesome idea Sareln, keep them coming.

 

[TheNewSaint]

Im sorry, but this has really been bugging me...

I BELIEVE YOU NEED A BEAST MASTERY SPHERE!!!

That was in no way ment to be harsh, but I have been trying to get my room mate of the computer so i could type this.

1. Summon Hawk- a scout unit

2. Summon Tiger (or bear named Ursa something)- a unit with good strength (that of 6 or 7?)

3. STAMPEDE! summons 5-8 (could be lowered) animals (preferabally the stampeding type) with high attack, the blitz promotion, and 3 or 4 speed in the target and adjacent tiles. Barbarian (you cant controll a stampede, can you? No. You cant. Thats final.)

Wonder: Call of the Wild
75% of all wild barbarian animals become yours.

Or something along those lines. Also, is it possible to have to research a certain tech before a promotion ca nbe gained? Like say you need to ressearch animal handling for Beast Mastery I and II, and advanced for III (and wonder). This would be cool. But hey! if not, what the heck...