[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

Can you changethe Hero promotion to work like this:

When the Hero attacks and kills and opponent, the ammount of Exp. gained is 50% more than normal.

i think this would make heros more fun.

I personally prefer double XP on both offense and defense.

 

[loki1232]

Why not generate FAME AND GREAT PEOPLE POINTS?

Not quite sure what you mean by this.
Isn't "fame" kinda like culture?
GP point are just a cool mechanic. my idea is that the great people in FFH would be significantly different from great people in this world. ie: heros not engineers.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

The Era is used in a few places, to use it for building views I would need to take it out everywhere else. The biggest hit I can think of is that players that like to start in different eras wouldn't get the appropriate tech for doing so. Since starting in classical, medieval or reinissaunce would all give the same set of techs (all of them).

We will be better off to leave the era's as is but don't allow the eras to upgrade buildings. Then we can steal all the upgraded building art and use it for whatever we want, temples, armorers, bowyers, etc etc.

Now, I know next to nothing about Python, but it looks like a simple object oriented language similar to any Basic script or xml... but based on that, couldn't you just create a new object in the primary Python script and build that into the Religious conversion text. Its all graphic pointing so the AI doesn't need any special training to use it..

like I said, I am just basing this on the small bit I know of general programing in ObjOrProg, and I don't even know if Python fits that category.

Anyway, Still my favorite Mod Kael!

Cheers!

 

[Kavok]

Not quite sure what you mean by this.
Isn't "fame" kinda like culture?
GP point are just a cool mechanic. my idea is that the great people in FFH would be significantly different from great people in this world. ie: heros not engineers.

Theres an idea, why not get adventures and random heros based on the amount of -culture- your civilization has?

 

[Kavok]

Go take those reagents then. I like the idea of strategic rare resources (would like to see more in FFH)...sort of like Oil you know, a few wars have been fought over that one.

I mean, if you really don't want war with another civ over a resource, you can always add it in yourself through the WB.

I didn't start with Iron or Reagents.

I was lucky enough to find a barbarian empire on a little island for the Iron. (They had 7+ units in each city!)

I've been in war on and off with the chinese. I'm currently in a long drawn out war with them constantly shipping soldiers over.

I once attempted to grab Reagents by making peace with the chinese and declaring war on the only viable target (Egyptians) but that generates some much bad 'PR' that Rome, Greece, and China all declare war on me. (Rome is currently #1 in the world, the rest are relatively low but still annoying.)

This mod has brought me back to Civ4, I had stopped playing until I found this mod.

 

[Kizor]

[Insert generic wild praise here]. Surprisingly, I particularily came to like the mixing of old elements from Civ IV and new additions. It creates a real sense of 'alternate history', that these are us in radically different circumstances, in particular because Fall From Heaven and ordinary Civ start off the same way. This gives a much stronger immersion than commanding the Madeup Empire in Howandaland would.

The inclusion of "Luonnotar", "Naturess", is cool, although the Temple's name looks a bit weird since Finnish lacks a definite article. I doubt many players care about that, though. Can I ask where you found it?

 

[Kael]

[Insert generic wild praise here]. Surprisingly, I particularily came to like the mixing of old elements from Civ IV and new additions. It creates a real sense of 'alternate history', that these are us in radically different circumstances, in particular because Fall From Heaven and ordinary Civ start off the same way. This gives a much stronger immersion than commanding the Madeup Empire in Howandaland would.

The inclusion of "Luonnotar", "Naturess", is cool, although the Temple's name looks a bit weird since Finnish lacks a definite article. I doubt many players care about that, though. Can I ask where you found it?

In the FfH world there was one origional creator god who made all of the other "gods". Everything origionated at one source. The Finns had a similiar single creator goddess (it's actually a pretty common concept, the egyptians had the same idea) who was named Luonnotar.

I liked the name a lot and used it to represent a group of people who had forsaken worship of the common gods and had begun to worship the orgional creator god. The Altar of the Luonnotar was one of their sacred relics.

In FfH world history the start of the Luonnotar was a pretty tramatic event. They began to preach that the "gods" everyone else was worshipping were just angels, flawed beings not much different than the people themselves except for thier incredible power. They believed that the fact that the angels accepted worship was a sign that their vanity had overcome their morality.

This was unsettling to the other religions and they got a lot of hatred from good and evil religions alike. They ended up going into hiding to keep from being killed off, the Luonnotar became a secret sect, often with very politically powerful members. They would push anti-religous agendas as they tried to weaken the religions that worshiped the angels.

The actual angels themselves had 2 problems with the Luonnotar. They were trying to fight a war against the opposed angels and the last thing they needed was a group telling their worshippers that they didn't have to follow them and eroding their faith. The other concern was that the Luonnotar somehow signaled that the return of the creator was close, so all of the angels on both sides really pushed up their aggresion to try to get the war won.

 

[Kael]

Theres an idea, why not get adventures and random heros based on the amount of -culture- your civilization has?

I could probably add a check that required a city to have x amount of culture before it was able to build a hero.

I hate to make heroes random though. I think they are a pretty significant part of the mod and will drive a lot of tech research decisions. They are to fun to play with to exclude from players who get unlucky at some random chances. And to dangerous if overused to set the random chance high enough to garuntee that everyone gets some.

 

[Kizor]

I've suddenly become convinced that my future world-creating efforts should have much more backstory.

 

[forumforumforum]

1) why not have heroes spawn when you cash in GP. as you need 2, then 3, then 4 unique GP this would prevent hordes of heroes... also if you do end up renaming great scientists mages and great artists bards it's almost like gathering a group of adventurers

2) later in the tech tree dozens of techs become available each allowing 3 national units. at this point the game becomes research tech, build 3 units, repeat. this is the same process regardless of which religion you are and makes this point of the game monotonous and less replayable. perhaps restrict which techs are available to each religion... it seems like these national units have a religious flavor to them as is... such as berserker to runes, druid to fellowship, inquisitor to order

i like the idea of having a large army of similar units (t3 i suppose) but supplemented with a few more powerful flavor units for each religion. breaking up the tech tree based on religion would do this

 

[Chip56]

First of all:
GREAT WORK with this mod

2) Don’t know if this bug is already known but I don’t want to read 85 pages right now.
If you summon fireballs with your mage and don’t use em for offense and an enemy attacks the fireball the game may crash. Right now my observation is that if the fireball looses nothing happens but if the fireball wins civ4 crashes. (vers 0.7)

3) My thoughts of balancing:
I think that choosing your state form should be dependant of your style of playing and the game situation. Right now some forms are simply better or worse than other (again talking about vers 0.7, don’t know if there are changes in 0.8)
Example: There is no reason why you shouldn’t pick agriculture over decentralisation.
So maybe change it to something like that:
Aristocracy: low upkeep, +2gold per farm, but -1 or 2 Happiness per city
(People don’t like paying high taxes for fat lords)
Naturalism: no upkeep, -1 for state religion
(You shouldn’t pay upkeep for things that only give negatives! -1 happiness because people don’t like it if you say them who to worship, they prefer the old ways)
Decentralisation: no upkeep
(Agriculture has low upkeep and +1health so make decentralisation cheaper)
Free religion: high upkeep, +2 Happiness per religion, +40% research
(High upkeep to stop dwarfs and elves from serious fighting after to many drinks requires a lot of security, but they like having arguments and making fun of each other (almost a sport for them) so +2happyness and +40% research because they always try to better than the others. This should be enough in time of peace to compensate for the loss of special units)

 

[Kael]

1) why not have heroes spawn when you cash in GP. as you need 2, then 3, then 4 unique GP this would prevent hordes of heroes... also if you do end up renaming great scientists mages and great artists bards it's almost like gathering a group of adventurers

2) later in the tech tree dozens of techs become available each allowing 3 national units. at this point the game becomes research tech, build 3 units, repeat. this is the same process regardless of which religion you are and makes this point of the game monotonous and less replayable. perhaps restrict which techs are available to each religion... it seems like these national units have a religious flavor to them as is... such as berserker to runes, druid to fellowship, inquisitor to order

i like the idea of having a large army of similar units (t3 i suppose) but supplemented with a few more powerful flavor units for each religion. breaking up the tech tree based on religion would do this

I agree and this was started in 0.80 but I didn't get very far. All I did was block Eidolons from the Order and Runes, Demon Summoners from the Order, Paladins from the Veil and Overlords and High Priests from the Veil.

This could definitly be extended to include more units.

 

[Kael]

First of all:
GREAT WORK with this mod

2) Don’t know if this bug is already known but I don’t want to read 85 pages right now.
If you summon fireballs with your mage and don’t use em for offense and an enemy attacks the fireball the game may crash. Right now my observation is that if the fireball looses nothing happens but if the fireball wins civ4 crashes. (vers 0.7)

3) My thoughts of balancing:
I think that choosing your state form should be dependant of your style of playing and the game situation. Right now some forms are simply better or worse than other (again talking about vers 0.7, don’t know if there are changes in 0.8)
Example: There is no reason why you shouldn’t pick agriculture over decentralisation.
So maybe change it to something like that:
Aristocracy: low upkeep, +2gold per farm, but -1 or 2 Happiness per city
(People don’t like paying high taxes for fat lords)
Naturalism: no upkeep, -1 for state religion
(You shouldn’t pay upkeep for things that only give negatives! -1 happiness because people don’t like it if you say them who to worship, they prefer the old ways)
Decentralisation: no upkeep
(Agriculture has low upkeep and +1health so make decentralisation cheaper)
Free religion: high upkeep, +2 Happiness per religion, +40% research
(High upkeep to stop dwarfs and elves from serious fighting after to many drinks requires a lot of security, but they like having arguments and making fun of each other (almost a sport for them) so +2happyness and +40% research because they always try to better than the others. This should be enough in time of peace to compensate for the loss of special units)

Although I agree with you that the civics need balanced out, I don't think they need to be equal. Some come from later techs and should therefor be more advantageous civics. So I don't really mind agriculture being better than decentralization since agriculture requires a tech.

But outside of that the civics do need some work. There are some that are never being used, and thats just a waste. I need to go through them and try to improve them.

 

[woodelf]

You want to make a poll of which civics we always use, sometimes use, and never use? I agree that there is a lot of waste there unfortunately.

 

[Kael]

You want to make a poll of which civics we always use, sometimes use, and never use? I agree that there is a lot of waste there unfortunately.

Let me go through them tonight. I will get you what I think tomorrow and we can see where to go from there.

 

[Kael]

I read your comment. I will investigate further into ths era thing this weekand and i have come to suspect that it will be actually possible to add additional eras. This would solve the problems and give not only these cool cities, but some additional possibilities, like some further religion dependend adjustments, religion depended units when draftig, and possibly different religion dependend skins for some buildings and - more important - for some units like knights or so. I hope to be able to give a full report on this theme on sunday.



Oh, ok will be done this weekend together with some more buildings i already have in my head.

I really like your idea to add additional eras. Another thing this would enable us to do is to add religion specific music (since music is determined by the era). We could also use it to flavor the units (since units can have different artwork depending on the era). I think your idea is brillant.

 

[Chip56]

Ok the argument of later civics be being better is valid but isn’t there already an advantage of being able to specialize your civics to match your style of play? Especially with the Spiritual trait?
And is it really good if the later ones are much stronger than the early ones so nobody choices the earlier ones anymore once he has the right techs?
I agree that they don’t have to be 100% the same worth but rendering them useless once you can take an other one isn’t good either.

 

[Kael]

Ok the argument of later civics be being better is valid but isn’t there already an advantage of being able to specialize your civics to match your style of play? Especially with the Spiritual trait?
And is it really good if the later ones are much stronger than the early ones so nobody choices the earlier ones anymore once he has the right techs?
I agree that they don’t have to be 100% the same worth but rendering them useless once you can take an other one isn’t good either.

Your right, there is a balance between those 2 things.

 

[Lightzy]

theres no reason why kaels world won't have its own great engineers and scientists and artists
not everyone is a warmonger.

Besides, you'd be taking out a huge chunk of the game, basically neutering peace based strats and cultural domination, making everything much more warlike.
Which is ok for some, but I prefer the diversity of approach that civ4 offers.

I hope that the adventurer system remains seperate from the great people system, and indeed put into the game as a 'rubber band' effect.

I mean, what could help out a dying civ more than a band of powerful units suddenly recruiting to help keep it from certain annihilation?

 

[Kael]

theres no reason why kaels world won't have its own great engineers and scientists and artists
not everyone is a warmonger.

Besides, you'd be taking out a huge chunk of the game, basically neutering peace based strats and cultural domination, making everything much more warlike.
Which is ok for some, but I prefer the diversity of approach that civ4 offers.

I hope that the adventurer system remains seperate from the great people system, and indeed put into the game as a 'rubber band' effect.

I mean, what could help out a dying civ more than a band of powerful units suddenly recruiting to help keep it from certain annihilation?

My playtesting with an Adventurer as a Great Person type supports your thoughts. Incorporating all great people as potential heroes (or "minor heroes") would just make it worse.

Although flavor-wise the great person and hero systems seem so closely related it makes since to merge them, from a functional perspective they serve very different roles. Merging them blurs those boundries.

I also learned that heroes (at least the hero promotion) is only good in limited doses. Anymore than a few heroes running around and they lose their appeal.

So Im with you, Heroes won't be mixed with great people, but could be used for the rubber band effect like you mention.