[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[azzacanth]

5) The computer doesnt hardly spread religeon,, its like they are not realizing what the first level missionary guys are for. It also seems not to realize the potency of it either. Saverous and Rosier the fallen were never built in my game because the computer players that founded them just switched over to kilmorph or leaves instead. Seems unfotunate. I realize this might be out of your control, tweaking the AI, but just wanted to touch on it.

Rosier was built in a game I played recently. But I don't see religion heros as frequently as other religions.


AS far as spreading religion goes. One time I was playing and I had a neighbor close south of me, he didn't manage to have any religion at all. I missed the earlier religion I was going for by only a few turns (pissed me off hehe) so I decided to try out the order. I was pleasantly surprised by the free acolyte every time I founded the religion somewhere: and so was my southern neighbor as I founded in just one of his cities and he immediately converted and began using his free acolytes everywhere. I would say within 50 turns his entire empire was Order.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Could be that another AI was threatening them to convert. I wonder how often that happens behind the scenes?

 

[kzoocauchy]

The one world unit I have never seen the AI make is Baron Halfmorn. Granted, I usually rush him as soon as I learn Feral Bond, but even if they find the tech a number of turns before I do I can still get him first. Is it just that he's too expensive for the AI to realize what an asset he can be if he kills a few units? Or is it just that I always give him such a big priority?

 

[naf4ever]

I think its just that you give him priority. I saw the computer build him last game just as many other people have seen the AI build heros i sometimes never see. Players tend to rush for em and build them as fast as they can. The AI seems to just view it as another unit that it will build if it gets around to it...

 

[Mesix]

I hate to jump in with a strategy question, but I could use some help.

How have you had success keeping your research at a high rate during a mid-to-late game war? I have money changers, and tax collectors in place, but if I put research higher than 50%, I am losing a bucket of gold per turn.

I don't have any of my civ specifics here at the moment, except I know I am running the Octopus Overlord religion.

I am also perpetually at war, and I have jillions of units, which I am guessing is a major contribution.

In any case, I am sure enjoying myself, low research level and all.

Please let me know your thoughts when you have a moment, or let me know if you have any questions. Thanks in advance!

Dave

The money is a problem once you go to war with a big empire. I typically reduce my research to 30%-40%. With enough research buildings (library, alchemy lab, elder counsel, wizards tower, etc.) in each city I am still getting the higher level tachnologies in a few turns.

 

[Mesix]

The one world unit I have never seen the AI make is Baron Halfmorn. Granted, I usually rush him as soon as I learn Feral Bond, but even if they find the tech a number of turns before I do I can still get him first. Is it just that he's too expensive for the AI to realize what an asset he can be if he kills a few units? Or is it just that I always give him such a big priority?

I have seen the AI build him. Ii was rushing to build the Baron and just as I was about to finish (about 2 turns) I got a message that I could no longer build the Baron.

 

[naf4ever]

I hate to jump in with a strategy question, but I could use some help.

How have you had success keeping your research at a high rate during a mid-to-late game war? I have money changers, and tax collectors in place, but if I put research higher than 50%, I am losing a bucket of gold per turn.

I don't have any of my civ specifics here at the moment, except I know I am running the Octopus Overlord religion.

I am also perpetually at war, and I have jillions of units, which I am guessing is a major contribution.

In any case, I am sure enjoying myself, low research level and all.

Please let me know your thoughts when you have a moment, or let me know if you have any questions. Thanks in advance!

Dave

First off remember civics cost more in this game than vanilla,, they cost quite a bit more actually. Most people are use to choosing thier civics with no regard to cost but you cant do that here and need to choose them wisely. A high cost civic can do u in financially unless you really need what it offers. Civics usually end up being my number one cost.

Dont forget to build market places and gambling houses (and temples of kilmorph if you have em) in all your places since these give raw gold bonuses instead of just a % increase. Its possible with these to actually net gold while set at 100% research. Also overall FfH has more gold and trade route bonuses than vanilla civ has. Its just that maintaining a large empire can be harder because if you dont choose your civics right according to cost they can be quite high and also most people blow through their money faster in FfH upgrading units.

Furthermore build your Bazzar of Mammon in the best city you can for gold. Obviously the best will probably be where your holy city is if its got the special holy building and your religeon has spread decently. Otherwise make a dedicated city for it that utilizes lots of merchants, cottage tiles, etc..

Lastly dont worry if you fall behind in research. The FfH tech tree is pretty neat in the way its setup. You can be behind overall but really far in one tech line allowing you very powerful units. Falling behind in tech here isnt nearly as detrimental as the regular game.

 

[TheJopa]

Kael, you said that colloseums increase happines of cages etc. But if you used BuildingHappinesChange line in XML files, you should know that it will make EVERY cage in you empire give +1 happy face, not just ones in that city, and +1 happy will stack for each colloseum you build in your empire. That is because it is designed for wonders. In same way, each Treehome gives -4 happy from each asylium in your civilization, and it stacks for every new treehome. You should check this out. That is why someone asked how his Basilica gave 8 unhappines and he didn't have any other religious building in that city. IMO this is fine for unhappines penalties (that makes inquisition useful) but of course will be bad for colloseums.

 

[wainwrig]

Does anyone else feel there are just too many civics? I like them, but I find that there comes a point every game where my eyes just glaze over as I look at the choices. If you are a medium size empire (say 10-15 cities), at war with one civ, trying to stay balanced and not go into total war, what do you pick? There are so many pros and cons to the different civics I find it difficult to know what combos work well. Next game I'm planning on playing Spiritual, just so I can change more frequently and get a better feel. The other aspect is that the screen is so crowded it is a bit difficult to read. Does anyone have a PDF, or Excel, that just shows in table form all of the civics and the effects of them?

Secondly, and almost completely off-topic, I took the advice of someone on here and tried Highlands with thin ranges. I agree that it is a lot of fun for FFH, making the Barbs quite tough, but I HATE not having world wrap on. I looked at the python and changed what I thought the obvious flag was, but it didn't work. Can anyone tell me how to mod Highlands to allow world wrap? Thanks.

 

[Kerrang]

I am getting a 404 error when trying to download the 95g patch, I have 95e and wanted to move up to the next version now that I finished the game I had been playing.

 

[Kael]

Kael, you said that colloseums increase happines of cages etc. But if you used BuildingHappinesChange line in XML files, you should know that it will make EVERY cage in you empire give +1 happy face, not just ones in that city, and +1 happy will stack for each colloseum you build in your empire. That is because it is designed for wonders. In same way, each Treehome gives -4 happy from each asylium in your civilization, and it stacks for every new treehome. You should check this out. That is why someone asked how his Basilica gave 8 unhappines and he didn't have any other religious building in that city. IMO this is fine for unhappines penalties (that makes inquisition useful) but of course will be bad for colloseums.

My testing isn't showing this. The building happiness effects seme to be localized to that city. To test I created 3 cities:

1. One with a coloseum and a few animals cages.
2. One with a few opposed religious buildings.
3. One with nothing.

In all cases the cities only had the hapiness effects from their local buildings. Check the attached screenshots.

 

[Kael]

I am getting a 404 error when trying to download the 95g patch, I have 95e and wanted to move up to the next version now that I finished the game I had been playing.

Sorry about that. I fixed the lnk, it should work now.

 

[TheJopa]

You misunderstood me- Can you run this simulation again and try this (add colloseum and cages in Evermore, religious buildings in Hyll and nothing in Bruti):
Now add tiger cage in Hyll. It should give 1 happy, but it will give 2 because Evermore has colloseum.
Now add another colloseum in Bruti. Now cages in both Evermore and Hyll give +3 happy, but they are supposed to give +1 in Hyll and +2 in Evermore

 

[Kael]

You misunderstood me- Can you run this simulation again and try this (add colloseum and cages in Evermore, religious buildings in Hyll and nothing in Bruti):
Now add tiger cage in Hyll. It should give 1 happy, but it will give 2 because Evermore has colloseum.
Now add another colloseum in Bruti. Now cages in both Evermore and Hyll give +3 happy, but they are supposed to give +1 in Hyll and +2 in Evermore

Got it, your right, shoot. I'll fix it for 1.0.

 

[Kael]

I made a few more changes to 1.0 today:

*44. Removed duplicate animals.
*45. Halved production costs on Carnivals for Creative leaders. (recommended by CurtisC)
*46. Blocked AI from building barracks if they dont have copper.
*47. Remove building hapiness interactions. (TheJopa reported they weren't working as intended)
*48. Stables now require Horses.

 

[TheJopa]

Can you in any other way relate colloseums and cages?
Other ideas:
1) You could make holy city wonders give +1 happy from their religion temple.
2) If you have fellowship of the leaves in city, and fellowship as state religion, and also animal cage, and feral bond tech, you should be able to build that animal. I know that you said that" breeding animals is hard" but fellowship with sufficent tech should be able to go around this. It would be good adition to fellowship religion, and not overpowered since it has 4 prerequisites and it comes late in tech tree, and would fit well in FFH

 

[naf4ever]

1) You could make holy city wonders give +1 happy from their religion temple.

It looks like in version 1.0 there will more war weariness reducing stuff and a lower penalty from republic. These alone will help to alleviate quite a bit of unhappiness especially when at war. At the moment ive found the game to be pretty balanced when it comes to keeping your people happy when at peace. Im not sure if theres a need for more happiness producing stuff in the game.

 

[TheJopa]

That was just an idea how could BuildingHappinesChanges be used. It would fit good, however, at least for Order.

 

[BlakTooth]

Hey, I've managed to stumble on a few bugs:

1) If a Diseased Corpse is the only unit in a city, your citizens complain "We want military protection!" (you get unhappiness).

2) If you select a group of meteors and then take out the final unit in an enemy city, the meteors are able to capture the city (even tho they can't capture them solo).

 

[naf4ever]

Hey, I've managed to stumble on a few bugs:

1) If a Diseased Corpse is the only unit in a city, your citizens complain "We want military protection!" (you get unhappiness).

Ya Kael mentioned before these units were the prototype for an undead class he was thinking of. They cant suppress people but in their current state they also dont count as military units. Which means you can have tons of these in pacifism and not get the additional gold penalty, heh. I got feeling he will fix this though...

2) If you select a group of meteors and then take out the final unit in an enemy city, the meteors are able to capture the city (even tho they can't capture them solo).

YES!!! This is what i was trying to narrow down. I captured cities sometimes with meteors and couldnt figure out why. If my experience and yours are correct this only works if you attack a city with a group of meteors and the city has only 1 defender right? Is that what you were seeing?