[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[BlakTooth]

YES!!! This is what i was trying to narrow down. I captured cities sometimes with meteors and couldnt figure out why. If my experience and yours are correct this only works if you attack a city with a group of meteors and the city has only 1 defender right? Is that what you were seeing?

I did some further testing, and it seems I was incorrect.

BUT!

I found out the actual cause:
If the enemy city has any workers in it when its defenders are destroyed, then the meteors move in to capture the worker (and the city along with it).

I'm guessing this works the same way for other non-fighting units (like settlers).

 

[Mesix]

Kael, you said that colloseums increase happines of cages etc. But if you used BuildingHappinesChange line in XML files, you should know that it will make EVERY cage in you empire give +1 happy face, not just ones in that city, and +1 happy will stack for each colloseum you build in your empire. That is because it is designed for wonders. In same way, each Treehome gives -4 happy from each asylium in your civilization, and it stacks for every new treehome. You should check this out. That is why someone asked how his Basilica gave 8 unhappines and he didn't have any other religious building in that city. IMO this is fine for unhappines penalties (that makes inquisition useful) but of course will be bad for colloseums.

This stacking effect explains the unhappiness effect that I used to have in the late game. When I first started playing this mod, I built the temples of every religion present in a city since the info said that they increased happiness. after reading a previous post about the negaive aspect of having temples of opposing religions, I decided to concentrate on building temples for the faith that I had chosen to adopt. If each of the penalties was stacking with conflicting religious building in other cities as well, this could create quite a happiness mess in the late game if not managed properly. especially if conquered cities have temples of opposing religions in them.

 

[redstar05]

i just downloaded the mod and am really enjoying it when will the next version come out?

 

[kevjm]

Will there be more golem type units in phase 2? I know that experience is a big part of the mod, but having a wider variety of powerful units which can't gain experience appeals to me somehow- perhaps more summoned units which don't necessarily disappear? Perhaps more golems?

 

[Kael]

i just downloaded the mod and am really enjoying it when will the next version come out?

I don't know when 1.0 will release. I am waiting for something else to release that is beyond my control.

 

[Kael]

Will there be more golem type units in phase 2? I know that experience is a big part of the mod, but having a wider variety of powerful units which can't gain experience appeals to me somehow- perhaps more summoned units which don't necessarily disappear? Perhaps more golems?

There are more golems in Phase 2. In fact the Luchuirp are the enchanters of the FfH world and created most of its magical artifacts, they use golems of all sorts for their tasks. Golem workers that are faster than normal workers, golems that automatically kick out spells every turn. There is also another Golem hero "The War Machine", which is captuarable. And if you get to the highest levels of Life magic you can gain the "Bestow Vitae" spell and start to bring your golems to life.

And there are currently 2 summon spells whose units don't dissappear. Raise Skeleton and Summon Tiger. Both summon relativly low power units but the units last until killed. The limit is that you can only have as many skeletons or tigers as you have casters that are able to cast those spells. So if you have 3 units that are able to cast Raise Skeleton, you will only be able to have 3 skeletons at once. We may do more units like this but Im just testing the mechanic right now.

 

[Kael]

This stacking effect explains the unhappiness effect that I used to have in the late game. When I first started playing this mod, I built the temples of every religion present in a city since the info said that they increased happiness. after reading a previous post about the negaive aspect of having temples of opposing religions, I decided to concentrate on building temples for the faith that I had chosen to adopt. If each of the penalties was stacking with conflicting religious building in other cities as well, this could create quite a happiness mess in the late game if not managed properly. especially if conquered cities have temples of opposing religions in them.

Temples never gave negative unhappiness, the specialized buildings did (Treehome, Asylum, Necropolis and Basilica). But outside of that you are correct.

 

[BlakTooth]

Hey Kael, did you get my update on the meteor bug?

If the enemy city has any workers in it when its defenders are destroyed, then the meteors move in to capture the worker (and the city along with it).

I'm guessing this works the same way for other non-fighting units (like settlers).

 

[strategyonly]

You said in a previous note that you are making more golems, i was thinking more in line of making special ones like, after you have the tech, Fellowship of the Leaves have a GREEN golem, for Overlords BLUE, for Runes BROWN, and Ashen RED. , , , etc
Also if making a Frankenstein monster, have his Hero named, Frank N. Stein, and little zombies as slaves etc. I have alot more ideas if you want them, let me know, thx.

 

[Yakk]

Attacking with a fire elemental from a stack of normal units can cause the stack of normal units to be deseased. This seems counterintuative.

The "Blessed" promotion -- using the "forge weapons as an improvement" technique is rather annoying.

The High Priest should simply "auto-bless" every unit in the same stack as the High Priest -- with the High Priest's bless effect wearing off if the unit moves away (like the sentry towers). Similarly, the Dwarf Weaponsmith hero should automatically upgrade the highest strength unit in his stack who lacks Quality weapons with Quality weapons (which lasts forever).

Arete. Arete is a pretty gimp religion specific civic. From what I can tell, the other religion-specific civic's are balanced a cut above the other options in their column.

Suggestions:
1> Increased chance to "discover" resources from mines (gold, gems, iron, copper, mithril etc)
2> +1 shield from mines (which brings mines up to standard-civ-4 production levels).
3> Free Guerilla I or II promotions to melee units.

Dwarven hero: the weaponsmith dwarven hero neither starts with, nor can he be promoted to, Guerilla II.

Mountains: Remember the ranger code that let them cross mountains but not water? That would be very appropriate for dwarves. Possibly even don't allow Dwarves to board boats period. (Ie, dwarves are denser than water, so armies of dwarves will not board boats. Or, alternatively, they can only board boats in cities.)

If you do allow units to cross mountains, you'll have to increase the movement cost of mountains. Right now they cost 1, less than hills. . . Which is maybe appropriate for dwarves. =)

 

[TheJopa]

Free promotions cannot be assigned to civic, as far as I know. But if there is way to do that, then units in slavery should get Slave Capturing 1 promotion. Advantage is that you could get Slave Capturing 2 and 3 on level-up, to increase your chance to capture slaves, and practicaly create "slaver" uniz. IMO it is better than straight 25% chance. However I don't know what would happen with units already built when you switch to slavery- they couldn't get their slave promotions, this applies only to newly built units...
I don't know what is Arete supposed to be. A society focused on industry or on military and great people? Kael?

 

[Kael]

Hey Kael, did you get my update on the meteor bug?

Yeah I reproduced it with vanilla civ (using gunships) on civ patch 1.52. Its an engine problem. You will have a fix for this before you get 1.0 so it won't be a problem.

 

[Mr.Earl]

You said in a previous note that you are making more golems, i was thinking more in line of making special ones like, after you have the tech, Fellowship of the Leaves have a GREEN golem, for Overlords BLUE, for Runes BROWN, and Ashen RED.

What about the order?

Also if making a Frankenstein monster, have his Hero named, Frank N. Stein, and little zombies as slaves etc. I have alot more ideas if you want them, let me know, thx.

Frankenstien is not fantasy, it's horror/science fiction.

 

[Kael]

Attacking with a fire elemental from a stack of normal units can cause the stack of normal units to be deseased. This seems counterintuative.

The "Blessed" promotion -- using the "forge weapons as an improvement" technique is rather annoying.

The High Priest should simply "auto-bless" every unit in the same stack as the High Priest -- with the High Priest's bless effect wearing off if the unit moves away (like the sentry towers). Similarly, the Dwarf Weaponsmith hero should automatically upgrade the highest strength unit in his stack who lacks Quality weapons with Quality weapons (which lasts forever).

The whole spell system has been rewritten (by Talchas) in phase 2. Improvement code isn't used anymore. Unfortunatly it will probably remain as is for 1.0.

Arete. Arete is a pretty gimp religion specific civic. From what I can tell, the other religion-specific civic's are balanced a cut above the other options in their column.

Suggestions:
1> Increased chance to "discover" resources from mines (gold, gems, iron, copper, mithril etc)
2> +1 shield from mines (which brings mines up to standard-civ-4 production levels).
3> Free Guerilla I or II promotions to melee units.

I tend to disagree with this and don't think Arete is underpowered.

Dwarven hero: the weaponsmith dwarven hero neither starts with, nor can he be promoted to, Guerilla II.

Good point, ill give him Guerilla II.

Mountains: Remember the ranger code that let them cross mountains but not water? That would be very appropriate for dwarves. Possibly even don't allow Dwarves to board boats period. (Ie, dwarves are denser than water, so armies of dwarves will not board boats. Or, alternatively, they can only board boats in cities.)

If you do allow units to cross mountains, you'll have to increase the movement cost of mountains. Right now they cost 1, less than hills. . . Which is maybe appropriate for dwarves. =)

In my mind dwarves dont travel over mountains, they travel under them. Which doesnt help them in mountains they haven't carved passages under. So you normal civ mountain is as inhospitable to dwarves as humans. But it would be cool to allow the dwarves to be able to produce tunnels that go under mountains and allow allied troops passage through them. But of course that opens up the whole question of the ai's use of them, existance of an "underground map", etc etc. A path I havent gone down yet.

 

[Kael]

Free promotions cannot be assigned to civic, as far as I know. But if there is way to do that, then units in slavery should get Slave Capturing 1 promotion. Advantage is that you could get Slave Capturing 2 and 3 on level-up, to increase your chance to capture slaves, and practicaly create "slaver" uniz. IMO it is better than straight 25% chance. However I don't know what would happen with units already built when you switch to slavery- they couldn't get their slave promotions, this applies only to newly built units...
I don't know what is Arete supposed to be. A society focused on industry or on military and great people? Kael?

Arete is the peoples devotion to excellence, being as good as they can be at whatever task they are performing.

Its pretty easy to have a civic gift promotions. I could even give it to already created units if desired. But I hate to have slavery based on promotions because of what happens when you switch off of the civic. Your units would have to lose the promotions, which means potentially wasting levels spent on the promotions.

That said the Balseraphs do have a UU that is able to capture slaves even if you don't have the slavery civic (the balseraphs use their slaves to build human, elf, dwarf and orc cages in their carnivals).

 

[Yakk]

I tend to disagree with this and don't think Arete is underpowered.

Arete:

+20% great person
Cheaper military unit support.
Medium upkeep.
Can buy with cash (which every non-default civic in that column, other than slavery, can do).

Am I missing something? This looks meh for the category, let alone compared to the other religion-specific civs.

GPP is the only "unique" thing about this civic in the column -- and the benefits of GPP is limited by the blowup in great people cost as you get more and more of them.

Religion specific civics:

Slavery: You lose gold purchase, but get "slave" units. Unique and interesting at the very least. Hard to compare, because it is such a strange benefit.

Leaves: Massive happiness and health. I've had an empire built around this civic -- early game size 20 coastal city, kept happy with forests. Forests are currenty the best production terrain in the game (+3 shields over the base terrain), and with Leaves you get massive happiness from forests as well. Large production-monster cities result.

Order: Competator is "Consumption". About -1/2 happiness per city, +10% military unit production, -10% gold compared to consumption.

Viel: Compared to "no healers" (the other two health civics are rather weak for their cost): +15% gold.

Arete: compared to "caste system", +20% GPP, cheaper military support vs 1 free specialist and +2 culture per specialist. Or vs the military one: +20% GPP vs -25% culture +15% unit production.

Am I just massively undervalueing GPP? I notice that most of the +GPP civics cost have massive negatives attached to them.

Assuming you do the "GPP contentration" trick, if your GP city generates 10000 GPP (with a base GPP cost of 100) makes 13 great people.

If it generates 20000 GPP you get 19 great people.

Doubling your GPP gives you about 40% more great people because of how their cost grows.

 

[Kael]

Arete:


Am I missing something? This looks meh for the category, let alone compared to the other religion-specific civs.

GPP is the only "unique" thing about this civic in the column -- and the benefits of GPP is limited by the blowup in great people cost as you get more and more of them.

Religion specific civics:

Slavery: You lose gold purchase, but get "slave" units. Unique and interesting at the very least. Hard to compare, because it is such a strange benefit.

Leaves: Massive happiness and health. I've had an empire built around this civic -- early game size 20 coastal city, kept happy with forests. Forests are currenty the best production terrain in the game (+3 shields over the base terrain), and with Leaves you get massive happiness from forests as well. Large production-monster cities result.

Order: Competator is "Consumption". About -1/2 happiness per city, +10% military unit production, -10% gold compared to consumption.

Viel: Compared to "no healers" (the other two health civics are rather weak for their cost): +15% gold.

Arete: compared to "caste system", +20% GPP, cheaper military support vs 1 free specialist and +2 culture per specialist. Or vs the military one: +20% GPP vs -25% culture +15% unit production.

Am I just massively undervalueing GPP? I notice that most of the +GPP civics cost have massive negatives attached to them.

Assuming you do the "GPP contentration" trick, if your GP city generates 10000 GPP (with a base GPP cost of 100) makes 13 great people.

If it generates 20000 GPP you get 19 great people.

Doubling your GPP gives you about 40% more great people because of how their cost grows.

You make an excellent point, I retract my statement. Arete used to be the best of the civics but I think your right, I've cut it down to its current state, which may be a bit underpowered. I'll look at what to try to do with it in phase 2.

 

[kzoocauchy]

Personally, I miss silver. Is there any chance you could make mithril take over aluminum's placeholder and bring back silver in the future?

 

[strategyonly]

I mentioned Frankenstein because i thought vampires, werewolves and Frankenstein all go together and i see that in Phase 2 there will be vampires, right?

 

[Mr.Earl]

I mentioned Frankenstein because i thought vampires, werewolves and Frankenstein all go together and i see that in Phase 2 there will be vampires, right?

The idea of vampires and werewolves cam long before Frankenstein. If you really want to add somthing to the Horror/Fantasy catagory, a Grim Reaper world unit might work.