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[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Feb 20, 2006.

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  1. candeavladimir

    candeavladimir Chieftain

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    Hello

    So you are saying that the whole MP is bug but this problems appear only in a mod game. I don't have any problem playing a normal MP game. I did find the realistic speed mod and turned it back to normal but I didn't had the chance to test in in MP yet to see if my presumption was true.

    Anyway if this bug is related to the game itself does it have anything to do with the 152 patch and if it does id the mod working with the original not patched game?
     
  2. Jean Elcard

    Jean Elcard The Flavournator

    Joined:
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    No City Razing defaulted to false.

    Hmm ... I don't like city razing in the way it is implemented in vanilla civ4. It can destroy your whole game and is unrealistic at best. For me it seems very odd that it takes longer to destroy a village (terrain improvement) than a real city. Yes, you should be able to raze cities but you should have to do something for it. To raze a city with a size of 20 in one turn is just impossible. How about a change here. How about making the magnitude of destruction dependent on the number and strength of units you have based there and comanded to pillaging? Would this be possible?
     
  3. candeavladimir

    candeavladimir Chieftain

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    Hello again

    I have a question You said you have modified the following instructions:

    - NUKE_POPULATION_DAMAGE_BASE to 50, from 30. - Increased
    - NUKE_UNIT_DAMAGE_BASE to 50, from 30.

    I’ve looked for them but I couldn’t find the anywhere. I want to make some modifications and I need to know where these settings are.

    Anyway here are some of my suggestions. Maybe you want to implement them in the following versions.

    I think that the way nukes act in the game is somehow unrealistic For example:

    1. Studying Manhattan Project allow construction of nukes. Completely wrong. The Russian didn’t get their nuke for another 5 year and most of Earth’s nations are not able to build nukes without research of their own.
    In game there is no point for me to study this project and loose some good turns in a city since I will get the nukes anyway when the computer study the project.
    I think that this project should be something like a national wonder allowing nukes for the civilization who study it or if this can’t be done due to the game engine an additional project or national wonder should be required by each nation (for example to build a plutonium processing plant generating a resource: Plutonium to be used in building an ICBM for the nations who missed the Manhattan Project)

    2. In game it says that the nuke should ruin your whole day. This is not happening. A nuked city does not appear to care much of this. The bomb shelters diminish even more the blast effect. Since the game has only one unit for nukes an ICBM (which by the way usually carries 10 separates warheads each one of this capable of flattening a city and make it inhabitable for tenth of years) some modification should be added. Once the nuke falls it should:

    - kill 70-90% of unprotected population and 50-60% bomb sheltered pop ( it is stupid that the actual bomb shelter setting protect buildings too).

    - destroy 90% of the buildings in the city (in reality many building will still stand after the blast but they will suffer serious structural damage and the radiation will prevent any repairs (since the game does not put fallout in the city something should be done to prevent the city functioning after being nuked not having happy pop and producing units like nothing happened))

    - kill 50-60% of military units

    - make the inhabitants very sick (reducing to 0 the health of the city)

    - I don’t remember now what tech makes the workers able to scrub fallout but if it should be the More Terraforming tech or a Future Tech (I don’t thing that nowadays anyone has an idea of getting rid of radiations)

    My point: the city should become unusable for produce anything else than the necessary buildings to develop it again.

    3. The SDI defense system should cost a lot as it to be build in no less than 20 turns in a big city ( look at the US missile defense project how costly it is and how difficult is to be implemented).
     
  4. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

    Joined:
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    @Nock
    thanks for your efforts. These information is very useful. We forgot one last resource: Musket. It is a damn important one though. Where should I place that?

    @JasonX
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=153566&highlight=icebreaker

    @Perfect_Blue
    - May you elaborate the city production issue a bit more? Sounds like a game engine issue rather than modding to me.
    - Galley issue is valid. I will have a look on it. I suppose it is not possible to transport units with a caravel?
    - I will have a look on enhanced foreign advisor and the inquisitor unit for further releases.

    @candeavladimir
    - Please test it first without the realistic mod in MP and report the result. ;)
    At this stage it is really difficult why the MP is failing...
    - The other one is a typo: You will find these values in GlobalDefines.xml:
    Code:
    <Define>
    	<DefineName>NUKE_UNIT_DAMAGE_BASE</DefineName>
    	<iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
    	<DefineName>NUKE_POPULATION_DEATH_BASE</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    
    Your point about the ICBM is valid. Indeed the Atomic Bombs were always very underestimated in CIV series. I will see what I can do about it.

    @Jean Elcard
    Your point is valid regarding razing cities in more turns. Maybe it is possible to make it more difficult to raze a big city according to amount and units strength in the occupied city. If any one has an idea how this might be solved please let me know.

    Again if anyone has already an idea how to solve any of these suggestions, please share it. :)

    Thanks
    Houman
     
  5. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

    Joined:
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    Hmmm, unfortunately I'm not sure what more to say. It doesn't seem to effect play, though I've never tried to choose one of the already chosen wonders again. I don't know if it's in the mod or not, but I never noticed that happening before I played with this one.

    As for the ships, nah, the caravels only transport special units, and if you don't rush to optics (I think it is) you don't get privateers, which become the next transport until galleons. So it leaves one transport-less for a few decades usually, which can be rather painful, armies straining at their leashes and all ;)
     
  6. Superfly

    Superfly Chieftain

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    It seems that I missed out on the disappering galley during my test sessions :blush: Shame on me :mischief:

    I agree on making the nukes more powerfull, but then I think we need to modify, the rest of the worlds diplo relations towards you. Using a nuke, should make all other nations stop trading with you, maybe even declare war on you :( That's how it would work in todays real world :nuke:
     
  7. candeavladimir

    candeavladimir Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Hello

    Based on the information passed to me by Houman I've been able to modify the mod in the way I described in my previous post. The modifications are:

    1. Introduced new resource :plutonium
    2. ICBM requires now Plutonium instead of Uranium
    3. Introduced new wonder Manhattan Project (fission) generating 3 Plutonium 50% culture and +2 great scientist
    4. Modified old Manhattan Project to First Nuclear Test (Nuclear Reactor) enables nukes, lowered cost (this is because it is stupid to build a project and take no benefit from it: everyone gots the bomb on your effort)
    5 Every civilization has now to build a Processing Plutonium Plant (Nuclear reactor) (with Nuclear Plant as prerequisite)in order to obtain (1 plutonium) (except the one who builded the Manhattan Project wonder
    6. Nuclear plant moved from Fission to Nuclear reactor :)) you realy need a reactor in a nuclear plant)
    7.Scrubbing fallout moved to More Terraforming
    8.Fallout probability increased to 70%
    9. Bomb shelter reduced from 75 to 35% (in reality they are very few and builded for a reduced number of pop)
    10. Nuke power increased as described in my previous post (testing on a 20 pop city resulted in
    - city reduced to 1 to 3 pop without bomb shelter and to 8-9 with bomb shelter
    11. Increased SDI cost

    I've attached a zip file containing the modified files of the REALISM 0.64 mod
    All the credit of the mod goes to its authors. If you consider the mod accurate you can add it to the following Realism versions. I did a lot of research on military and I can tell you I tried to make it as accurate as possible.

    The files from the zip file should be extracted to the realism\assets\xml directory and the old files overwritten. Hope I've archived all the files :)

    :nuke:
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    @Perfect_Blue, I remember having seen this problem. It disappears though after two turns, if I am not wrong. But I don't have much time to play. I am rather developing. Thats why the stupid questions: Does a Caravel transport a unit! ;) I will check this.

    Regarding the Transport, What do you guys think? Shall stop making the Galley obsolote after discovering Caravel and let it vanish with Privateer?
    or
    Shall I make Caravel able to transport Units?


    @SuperFly
    No worries, you did a very good job on testing. ;)
    Regarding the Nuclear affects. Stop trading, very bad mood toward you, would be appropriate. But starting war would be too much I suppose.

    But since you always have tensions with your border civs, the very bad relations might start a war with all your neighbors. I need to have a closer look on it.


    @candeavladimir
    Wow very nice job. Thank you for all your efforts. I will include it for the next version. Only one thing doesn't make sense to me. As far as I know, Plutonium doesn't exist in the nature. Plutonium is enriched-Uranium. So such an additional bonus is not realistic.

    I would rather make Plutonium as a produced-resource like Tuna-Fish or Books in the game. If you have the enrichment factory, you could produce Plutonium out of your Uranium and use it for ICBM.

    What do you think?

    Thanks
    Houman
     
  9. candeavladimir

    candeavladimir Chieftain

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    I DO PRODUCE THE PLUTONIUM - Plutonium Processing Plant (and Manhattan Project as wonder)

    You are right Plutonium is artificial made.

    Thats why I produce it in the game (the Plutonium Processing plant which i've inserted to force every civilization to put some effort in developing nuclear weapons) you cannot find it on map.

    I used the same script as the one for Muskets (which also cannot be found in nature :) ) I didn't cheched the script very well but I presumed that using the one for the muskets will prevent the resource from appear on map (if that was the problem)

    But since I produce plutonium I think is realy realistic.
     
  10. Ahimsa

    Ahimsa Chieftain

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    Hoohah! This looks great - thanks to all who have contributed to this mod. This has to be the best game community I've ever seen. Big up yourselves!
     
  11. Superfly

    Superfly Chieftain

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  12. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    Shame on me, Musket is produceable. So there is no need to place it on the map then. :)

    In that case everything is fine, good job candeavladimir. :thumbup:

    @SuperFly,
    It shouldn't interfere with Realism files. I will check for the post v.0.70 version. It really looks great though. :)

    Houman
     
  13. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

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    Please don't, or if this does get put in the mod, make two seperate downloads. My comp couldn't handle that. The game doesn't run all that hot right now.:(
     
  14. Nadin Bytefelt

    Nadin Bytefelt Chieftain

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    Location:
    EU
    yes please dont. same motiv be me..
     
  15. Fanatic Demon

    Fanatic Demon Student in Wizardry

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    The Netherlands
    I've been modifying with the Realism mod too. Durring play I found there were some major gaps between unit upgrading. I therefore added several units and technologies, balanced some over/under powered units and modified some upgrade paths to create better gameplay.

    new units: War Galey(galey graphics) , Bombard(cannon graphics), Crusadier, Steam Transport, Corvette, Dreadnought, Motorised Infantry(artilery graphics) , Heavy Machinegun (machinegun graphics), Towed Artilery(artilery graphics), Mechanised Artilery (paladin), Dive Bomber(fighter graphics), Strategical Bomber(bomber graphics), TOW infantry(Bazooka graphics)

    Because there aren't enough graphics available yet, I have to use existing ones. I hope the community will create them.

    New technologies: Explosives, Propeller, Jetengine, Laser

    I alterated some upgrade paths to create better gameplay

    Modified upgrade paths:
    WarGaley->Privateer->Frigate->ShipoftheLine->IronFrigate(=Ironclad graphics)->Corvette->Destroyer->Agris Cruiser

    Is anyone intrested?
     
  16. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    No Worries guys, ;)

    I would never do something that would slow down the game. If tests show a downtime, then I won't integrate it. If it runs fine on stronger computers I would think about an add-on as an additional download.

    @Fanatic Demon

    May you please share your unit balancing ideas. I am working now since a week on it. Ifind the Combat Formula way too complicated to do it 100% accurate. I am afraid of rather unbalancing than balancing the Units. Im still working on it though.

    Regarding new Units with Old Graphics. This won't add to the Game atmosphere, which is as much important as the game play it self. Maybe we could re-skin them at least.

    Thanks
    Houman
     
  17. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    Unit Balancing:



    After one week of hard work, the Unit balancing is coming a step closer.

    This is the list of the Units that will be changed. Blue means new, red means removed attributes.

    The decisions are based on historical facts. However as you can see I have mainly updated the ancient, classical and middleage units. I am not an expert in the era after the gunpowder, so I haven't changed much in there.

    If you have any questions or comments please let me know.

    Regards
    Houman
     
  18. Crazy_Ivan80

    Crazy_Ivan80 Chieftain

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    I've noticed that the normal musketman requires muskets to build but the french musketeer doesn't.
     
  19. Mikkeman

    Mikkeman Chieftain

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    I like the balances you have thought of. Excelent :)
     
  20. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    @Crazy_Ivan80

    The French don't need Musket. They use cheese instead! ;)
    It is a bug of course. Thanks!


    @Mikkeman
    Thank you. I appreciate it.
     
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