[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

[Kushan]

Optional Regiments MOD

Sorry I missed that.

Kushan

 

[Perfect_Blue]

Indeed. No controversy here. Just gaming

 

[Houman]

Allright, now back to the comments:

@bcr1776

Thank you for all your suggestions. Indeed are your comments very helpful.
We badly need to start designing the idea of blacksmith, armories and etc war factories. One major problem here is the graphics for the building.

Maybe I could google around for pictures and just resize them and make dds out of them. Any better idea?

I was thinking according to your suggestions going this path:

Ancient Units do not need any extra factory.
Archers, Mali_Skirmisher, Chariot, Egypt_Chariot, Warrior, Incan_Quechua, Spearman, Hyapist, Aztec_Jaguar, Axeman, Greek_Phalanx, Persia_Immortal, War_Elephant, Catapult, Galley, Caravel, Galeon


Early Middle age and Middle age Units need a Armorers-Smith.
Longbowman, Crossbowman, Chokonu, Swordman, Pikeman, Rome_Praetorian, Maceman, Japan_Samurai, Crusader, Mongol_Keshik, Horse_Compan, Mujahid, Knight, Arab_CamelArcher, Spanish_Conquist., Private, Frigatte, Line, Ironclad

Renaissanse:
Musketman, French_Musketeer, Rifleman, English_Redcoat, USCavalry, Cavalry, Russia_Cossack,

etc etc.

My problem is that since I haven't played the game once through, the lack of knowledge which unit belongs actually to which period.

bcr1776, you could help me a lot, if you download the UniInfo.zip file from previous post and have a look on the excel file. There are all the Units. Could you group these units into these categories to know, which unit would need a armory, which one needs an updated armory etc etc.

Many thanks for helping me,

When a unit gains a speed promotion it's new speed is reflected in the units stats. Strength promotions are not. Is there a way to implement this?

No problem. I have implemented 0.8 Promotion Mod. This might be fixed now.

What is a kdiff3 editor?
I'm still using edit2Plus.

Kdiff editor can actually do a comparison line by line and is very helpfula nd easy to use.

Sugar, Spice, Incense, Dye, Silk, Banana

Ok, IMHO, here's the problem.

It is not necessarily the Calendar advance that is the problem.

Sugar, Spice, Silk, and Banana probably need plantations, what is missing is the fact that they need other advances to be trade items.

Sugar and spice need a milling advance.

Silk needs weaving.

Bananas need refrigeration to be tradeable. Not so much for domestic use(?).

Incense and dyes are ancient arts. They need only gatherers. The most popular incenses were gathered from the desert by bedouin traders. The most valuable dyes came from Mediteranean sources, not really from jungles.
Shellfish provided favourite dyes to the civilizations bordering the Med.

A dye producing shellfish resource would be a good thing here.

Woad (the blue dye of the Celts) was traded widely before Indigo was discovered (here is your jungle dye).

Both of these were exhorbitantly expensive and produced great wealth for thier purveyors.

I see, but what shall we change?

Hi, Perfect Blue.
A somewhat saner thread than the Isreali one.
Have any of my questions/observations any value? Or have I unwittingly stepped where I don't belong?

I dont understand this. Do you mean me or blue? well, of course do your suggestions have a value. I appreciate any help. see above

@Nightravn

I like those Modifications you have except the Gunpowder one requiring steel as that will cause it to come much to late and besides early muskets were made from iron. I would say that we should require Steel for Machine GUN and later. How about having Gunpowder just require sulfur or how about charcoal if you want two resources though coal dosen't show up until steampower so we would have to move it. Then have musket-man/rifleman require gunpowder and iron. Machine gun and infantry units will require steel and gunpowder. Modern units should require Armaments and Oil.

We could have sulfur and charcoal show up at gunpowder and obviously steel factory requires steel tech. Do the resources from GreenMOD show up in Realism MOD the same time as in salt with quarries(masonry), potatoes with farming. Then maybe we could move a couple of the calender resources to Guilds as that is when "trading" for those items would have been occurring.

If you need any help with this just let me know what I can do to help out other than give suggestions and more work for you.

This is a very good idea too. But as I said, I am having poblems because I don't know the Tech Tree quite well. I don't know which unit depends on which tech etc. It is hard for me to distinguish them in era and tech.

I need help with that. We need to know which units needs what level of factory to be build + which unit needs which type of resource + generated resource by other factories. I need more than input, I need design.

@Kushan, Blue
I try to implement the Regiment Mod as optional for this version, but can't promise.

@candeavladimir
Thanks for the new version. i will have a look on it. BTW why is the Manhatten Project so cheap to build now? only 500?


Thanks guys
Houman

 

[Tubak]

Hi Houman,

Although i am interested in modding i dont think i would be up to the skill levels you guys are.

I would, however, like to offer myself as a tester though. I feel that i am a compatent player and am really good at fault finding/breaking things (my bosses keep asking me to test any new updates we have for our in house software, because they know i'll find the faults )

If there is any help you want give me a shout and i'll do what i can.

 

[Houman]

Hi Houman,

Although i am interested in modding i dont think i would be up to the skill levels you guys are.

I would, however, like to offer myself as a tester though. I feel that i am a compatent player and am really good at fault finding/breaking things (my bosses keep asking me to test any new updates we have for our in house software, because they know i'll find the faults )

If there is any help you want give me a shout and i'll do what i can.

Alright

You are in for the next weeks beta test.

Houman

 

[niust]

HI, Houman
I got Earth_realism 1.4 map out, you can add the new resources on the Map and combined it to your mod for the 0.7 ver, if you wish.

Suggestions
Post Industrial era units should be across the board increase their strength to 150 % or more. so, this will help them fight ancient units realistically but not among each other. this help the more technological advance but less powerful Civ more. let's say musket or Longbow will not be able to fight modern infantry in significant way, even when they got 300 % city + wall + fortification defense.

add Formation Mod to your mod. it is not difficult but time consuming bit. I did if for my own private mod for only the ancient Foot units and Make game looks very nice.

Thanks for your effort . I will try your mod NOW-)

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

First of all: I'm thoroughly enjoying the mod. It's top notch.


as for the trade-items "problem": maybe it's a stupid idea but why not add additional technologies? That would draw out the era's thing a bit cause from what I can gather it appears pretty easy to fully research all techs long before the game ends?

 

[Nightravn]

Houman I will take a look at the Unitinfo excel file and group the units into the requirement groupings. Between me and BCR we should be abe to get it straight for you.

We might want to consider adding in the Secound Unique Unit Mod Component to this. It should add alot more Flavor and realism. (I know more work, again let me know where can help)


Here is the revised Unitinfo Excel File with requirement groupings...

Early Units have NO requirement other than what they normally have.

Armorer Group (not sure what to have them need maybe Iron)

Gunpowder Group (Gunpowder needs Sulfur)

Steel needs Iron and Coal

Armenants Group (Armenants need Gunpowder and Steel)* changed from previous list

Modern Arms Group (Modern Arms needs Gunpower and Aluminium)

Pultonium Group = ICBMs


have a gander and tell me whatcha think........

 

[Perfect_Blue]

Suggestions
Post Industrial era units should be across the board increase their strength to 150 % or more. so, this will help them fight ancient units realistically but not among each other. this help the more technological advance but less powerful Civ more. let's say musket or Longbow will not be able to fight modern infantry in significant way, even when they got 300 % city + wall + fortification defense.

Hmmm, just thinking about out-teched afghans beating off the soviets... I do see the issue of old units being able to destroy new ones, but I don't know. I just keep thinking of possibilities every time I get into one of those mis-matched tech fights. Ah ha, he brought muskets, but my archers are crafty and ambushed them from the trees, or what have you. So, I don't know. I can see the point, but I'm not really sure...
Maybe something like each next generation of units gets a bonus (25-50%) against their older counterparts. And maybe even stack the bonus, so those post industrial units would get something like 150% bonus against swords. Maybe something like that??

 

[bcr1776]

"I dont understand this. Do you mean me or blue? "

Houman: I was talking to Blue. Another thread got a bit crazy, and I was relieved that this one was so on point.

 

[bcr1776]

I'll take a look at the units. Should not be hard to group them. As long as it only needs xml I might even be able to rough out the changes. Not hopeless at it, just VERY rusty.

 

[bcr1776]

Nightravn,

I think you've got the grouping right.

Exceptions exist and you'll probably here about them.

Here is mine: The Roman Legion. I know the basic game has it as Praetorians (about as useful in the field as any other over-fed, under-trained group of palace guards are likely to be), but if UUs are coming then here is a chance to have a look at them. One, they were expensive. Not only did you have to pay them, you had to outfit and train them. Until the time of Gaius Marius you even had to get them from the ranks of Roman citizens. Remember most of Italy did not have citizenship then, only within a short distance of Rome.
So... They need a training camp! They need weapons, armor, blankets, flour and sandals... from an armory! They are also hard to get. They need to be limited in number at any one time.
They are unique in that until the time of Louis XIV, armies did not outfit themselves in this fashion, so we don't really need to visit this again until the Musketeers and Redcoats come along.

 

[bcr1776]

First of all: I'm thoroughly enjoying the mod. It's top notch.


as for the trade-items "problem": maybe it's a stupid idea but why not add additional technologies? That would draw out the era's thing a bit cause from what I can gather it appears pretty easy to fully research all techs long before the game ends?

Weaving and milling come to mind, I don't think it's stupid at all but all I am doing here is making noise, I don't have to implement the changes!

 

[candeavladimir]

@candeavladimir
Thanks for the new version. i will have a look on it. BTW why is the Manhatten Project so cheap to build now? only 500?

Houman

Hello Houman

First I hope I finally put all the file in the zip archive

Second, you are refering to the

<Projectinfo>
<Type>PROJECT_MANHATTAN_PROJECT</type>

this realy cost 500 (750 hammers in the game). However this project is no longer called Manhattan Project but FIRST NUCLEAR TEST.

This is because I didn't had the time to look for a solution to remove it and make the nuclear weapons available to everyone. I still think that it is stupid to research something and invest a lot of time and get nothing since you make the nuke available for anyone on your work.

I would rather remove this completely (If you know how please do it if you want when you will include it in your mod)

Thats why I made it so cheap and I would have made it cheaper if I wouldn't have forgotten by doubleing construction speed of this project with plutonium

This is because I introduced a separate wonder MANHATTAN PROJECT (which cost 1500 (about 2700 hammers) which provides the +3 plutonium to the one who builds it and it would be logical that the builder of it have an advantage in quickly aquire nukes by studying FIRST NUCLEAR TEST

The other players have to build a Nuclear plant (which requires uranium) then a Plutonium Processing Plant (please dont alter the name I do believe thats the correct name look at the news about Iran thats what they are building Plutonium processing plants) in order to get 1 plutonium

I'VE OBSERVED A MINOR BUG - NUCLEAR REACTOR THECH REQUIRE ONLY REFRIGERATION (SHOULD REQUIRE REFRIGERATION & FISSION)

Please test the mod you will see that i've thinked of everything

You may find the values of the nuke damage a little bit higher but please do not alter them I assure you that the vallues are very realistic.

Since the game has only one unit for nuclear weapons and the real arsenal in the world is so powerful with fusion boms able to completely remove a city from map and make that spot of earth uninhabitable for hundred of years I do believe that I've put the right values.

 

[bcr1776]

I was thinking according to your suggestions going this path:

Ancient Units do not need any extra factory.
Archers, Mali_Skirmisher, Chariot, Egypt_Chariot, Warrior, Incan_Quechua, Spearman, Hyapist, Aztec_Jaguar, Axeman, Greek_Phalanx, Persia_Immortal, War_Elephant, Catapult, Galley, Caravel, Galeon


Early Middle age and Middle age Units need a Armorers-Smith.
Longbowman, Crossbowman, Chokonu, Swordman, Pikeman, Rome_Praetorian, Maceman, Japan_Samurai, Crusader, Mongol_Keshik, Horse_Compan, Mujahid, Knight, Arab_CamelArcher, Spanish_Conquist., Private, Frigatte, Line, Ironclad

Renaissanse:
Musketman, French_Musketeer, Rifleman, English_Redcoat, USCavalry, Cavalry, Russia_Cossack,

Nightravn has a handle on the groupings, some units might see a benefit from some tweaking (see my diatribe on the Legions)

No problem. I have implemented 0.8 Promotion Mod. This might be fixed now.

Thanks, I have a couple of other ideas here, but I would hate to watch you run screaming into the night....

Kdiff editor can actually do a comparison line by line and is very helpfula nd easy to use.

Thanks. Freeware? Cheap? Gasp?

I see, but what shall we change?

Can we use Crazy_Ivan's idea of inserting technologies that enable specialist buildings? To belabor the obvious, we have a Mill in the game already (2 in fact). If we have an additional technology of Milling we could require both to use sugar or It could be that sugar was revealed as it is now, but the mill had an additional value for sugar if available. Do it in the fashion that incense is an additional asset to temples.

 

[bcr1776]

For silk: I don't know that a special building is required, but we could insert the need for weaving.

 

[Perfect_Blue]

A suggestion about units: I think there's a mod around for second UU's for each civ. Might want to check that out...

 

[bcr1776]

A suggestion about units: I think there's a mod around for second UU's for each civ. Might want to check that out...

We could steal from EE3, Nice units there.

 

[Nightravn]

A suggestion about units: I think there's a mod around for second UU's for each civ. Might want to check that out...

That MOD is what I was referring to when I made the suggestion. Here is a link to it....... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156997

I understand that Pretorians were probably a Huge Investment in time, people and money and need a Huge support group to field but I didn't group them with the Armory Units as they are a replacement for swordsman which I don't think should be included in that group.

Most of the Armorer grouping units require Guilds Tech or are close to the same time period in the tech tree. My Thinking was that with Guilds you now have Armorer/Blacksmith Guilds to draw people from for your armory. I also tried to keep the grouping close in their combat strengths which is where the Pretorians are the ODD ball. If everyone thinks that they should go in then by all means lets do it, though we need to determine what it takes to make the Amory building and it can't be something that would delay the Pretorians from coming out when they do now.

 

[Perfect_Blue]

Sorry, didn't see that this had already been mentioned.