[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[JakeCourtney]

Well, not exactly a rock. Unless you consider work a rock, which in my case would be a boulder.

 

[AvianAvenger]

Warriors are the worst units in the game, the lowest of the low, they stand for the weakest militias ever created. The undisciplined sort that will break at a moments notice. They dont deserve an increase in strength. If they are made to be able to resist chariots, then what is the purpose of chariots? UU's such as the egyptian war chariot could then be thrashed by warriors on the defensive, which really shouldnt happen.

No scouts are the worst unit in the game. Chariots would still own warriors with thier strength of 4... but archers defently dont deserve to, archers should be equal because the difference in thier strength is allready made up by the first strike trait.. an archer would not beat a warrior in hand to hand combat.

 

[Lupito41]

No scouts are the worst unit in the game. Chariots would still own warriors with thier strength of 4... but archers defently dont deserve to, archers should be equal because the difference in thier strength is allready made up by the first strike trait.. an archer would not beat a warrior in hand to hand combat.

Combat simulates combat, not some hand-to-hand arm-wrestling match. Archers would beat warriors every time. If you want to win swinging clubs and wearing loincloths, you have to have numbers. Warriors' strength is perfectly accurate for first unit.

 

[AvianAvenger]

Combat simulates combat, not some hand-to-hand arm-wrestling match. Archers would beat warriors every time. If you want to win swinging clubs and wearing loincloths, you have to have numbers. Warriors' strength is perfectly accurate for first unit.

A early bow cannot shoot very far.. hence the longbow latter on, an archer would be lucky to get off 3 shots before getting clubed over the head.

 

[JakeCourtney]

Maybe the archers after shooting a couple of vollys switch to melee weapons.

 

[AvianAvenger]

Maybe the archers after shooting a couple of vollys switch to melee weapons.

That just leads back to my original point that an archer could not outclass a warrior in melee combat.

Im not saying that the units should be dead equal, all im saying is that the only thing that makes a archer better than a warrior is thier ranged attack... which is already covered by thier first strike ability, so why the hell give them an extra strength point when they dont deserve it.

 

[Los Tirano]

The bow that the archers use has gone through many revisions throughout history and in different places. Unfortunately civ does not accomodate this. But let me tell you, there is a big difference between the earliest sinew bow and the short composite bow used by mongols, persians, chinese, and others. It packs a serious punch. If warriors with cheap hand weapons went against composite bows, welll... i would not want to be the warriors.

Not to mention that archers might have better armour than militias. Archers during certain periods had leather armour, ring mail or chain mail. The lowest of the low would have trouble gathering this protection for many of them. Thus, they deserve to stay how they are.

So if an archer unit can outclass a warrior at range because of the bow, and if it can outclass a warrior in close combat because of armour, better training, and better made melee weapons, then the difference deserves to be acknowledged, and warriors should stay as bad as they are.

 

[Therapist]

A good example of why the archers are superior to club wielding warriors is Native American cultures. Mainly in North America, ALL later warriors carried bows(archers), with backups of a club, axe, etc. If a group opf native americans armed with clubs rushed a group with bows it would be a short fight indeed.


Just my .02

 

[Houman]

Just to keep you guys updated what is happening now:

Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism and Taoism are now local religions and won't spread to other countries. Judaism and Islam become dominant religions if also State religion. Christianity, Islam and Buddism are the only ones that would spread over the borders. (Still in testing phase, more Religions will be added)

- Armored Car now only transports foot soldiers (riflemans, grenadier, infantry, marines etc)

- Redcoat and Minuteman are now replacing the Rifleman instead of Infantry
- Fixed error in Redcoat and Minuteman (They were supposed to be Musketman class but were still of Rifleman class) Tech req changed back to those of Musketman, they upgrade now to Rifleman instead of Infantry

- Barbarians get the Wild Versions for Spearman, Swordsman and Axeman from now + the Huntsman for Archer by default

New Units:
- Northern European Archers get replaced by Huntsman
- Arabian Longbowman
- Added Arabian Spearman
- Added Arabian Pikeman
- Added Arabian Swordsman
- Added African Archer
- Fix of normal Flags according to the little patch in post #920 in the forum
- Added Canoe Button
- Added Egyptian Longbowman
- Added Egyptian Scout
- Added Egyptian Settlers
- Added Egyptian Warrior
- Added Hindu Scout
- Added Hindu Settlers
- Added Hindu warrior
- Added New Native Archer (Only for map, since he looks like Indians from North America and doesn't fit the Aztecs and Incans)
- Old Native Archer still existing
- Swapped normal workers and Egyptian workers, to give the one that looks more Egyptian to the Egyptians. ;o)
- Added Black Knight UU for French (Normandy)
Added new unique Great Generals for
- Russia
- Persia
- Spain
- England
- German

Stay tuned...

 

[Los Tirano]

Sounds great Houman, can hardly wait. I have found out how to prevent barbarians spawning when you have the slavery civic. Now normally they spawn right next to a city and then go nuts or head for the hills and defend. I was on an island of fourteen tiles. I founded two cities and then got slavery. I had an idea, so i filled all of the squares with mercenary units and cheap Quechuas (I knew they were good for something). A great number of turns have passed, techs have been researched and there has been no sign of barbarians. All is peaceful on the island of cess pit (pollution problems).

So this is a solution when on an island, or small continent.

 

[WarKirby]

I think the barbarians on the earth map need to be penalised somehow. They are too powerful. This morning, barbarian tribes invaded washington. The whole of both north and south america has now been conquered by barbarian tribes. Luckily I'm persia, and far from that fight.

 

[rumbold]

I don't mind the barbarians getting strong, I just think they should be able to become officially 'civilized' like some other mods are doing or working on. It'd be really cool if they can become another civ by being 'recognized' as an establish civilization by the other civs in the game, but that's probably asking too much.

 

[Nightravn]

Redcoat and Minuteman are now replacing the Rifleman instead of Infantry
- Fixed error in Redcoat and Minuteman (They were supposed to be Musketmen class but were still of Rifleman class) Tech req changed back to those of Musketmen, they upgrade now to Rifleman instead of Infantry

Too clarify this little mis-type here....

Redcoat and Minuteman replace the Musketmen Unit and they upgrade to Riflemen like they are suppose to.

 

[AvianAvenger]

I noticed there are two earth maps now. One with cities one without... but shouldn't the earth map without starting cities also have no barbarian cities.

 

[Basil_Fawlty]

I think the barbarians on the earth map need to be penalised somehow. They are too powerful. This morning, barbarian tribes invaded washington. The whole of both north and south america has now been conquered by barbarian tribes. Luckily I'm persia, and far from that fight.

A good choice on the Earth map is to play as English or Japanese, as the barbarians don't seem to build ships and mount invasions. In my game as the English (Warlord level) barbarians wiped out all the AI civs except for the Japanese, 1 Spanish city on an island off the coast of Africa and one Aztec city on Cuba. (3 galleons of Cavalry to Japan and a fourth for the others gave me a conquest victory). The only barbarians I had to fight was when I occupied Oslo.

Maybe this tactical shortcoming could be looked at at some point in the future.

A by-product of this barbarian domination was that at one point I sent a spy into a barbarian city and stole plans and got to see virtually the whole map (there were hundreds of them all over the land areas but only a handful of empty galleys). This seems rather unrealistic, as barbarians should be more like maurauding tribes then a worldwide organisation, and I would suggest that the steal plans option be either localised or removed for barbarian cities.

 

[Spartan117]

To address some of these issues.....

To all I don't think much is more is going to be done until Warlords is out and we have had time to adjust the Mod accordingly. I personally want to use their Great Generals as well as most of their other improvements but we as a team with your input as a community will decided on that stuff when the times comes.

what do you mean adjust mod accordingly?

i do not know much about computers and programming...so forgive me for asking stupid question...

realism mod is not going to be compatible with warlord espansion? i do not think it will be compatible because they are two different games

 

[Mexico]

what do you mean adjust mod accordingly?

i do not know much about computers and programming...so forgive me for asking stupid question...

realism mod is not going to be compatible with warlord espansion? i do not think it will be compatible because they are two different games

we don't know - we must wait for expansion and see for differences - and of course, this take som time for adjust mod for warlords
and what if people don't have expansion? from my point of view, this look like we need maintain 2 mods: for base civ and for expansion...
but result will be done after expansion will be out and we will be able to test ....

 

[Houman]

@Los The barbs only spawn, if there are free spots around the city. This is true.

@All The game is adjusted to Noble difficulty. Everything under Noble is too easy. I have seen recently some players complaining about the easy difficulty or too much cash. Play at Noble/Prince/Monarch if you look for challlenge.
The barbs in general have it easier to fight AI in easier diffulty levels such as Warlord. Take at least noble guys!

Thanks
Houman

 

[WarKirby]

A few ideas to solve the problem of ridiculously powerful barbarians.

1. Make the barbarians into lots of little tribes and have them fight it out amongst themselves. And if one tribe becomes too big (more than 10 cities) their civilisation should redivide into warring factions due to their lack of proper government.

2. When you attack a stack of barbarians the defender should be chosen randomly rather than being the strongest. This would represent their lack of tactical organisation.

3. It would also be good if some barbarian tribes were not agressive, and would only attack if you enter their territory. There are (or used to be) many peaceful tribes in the real world. People who simply live their everyday lives without modern technology, and without government more advanced than the village elder. Like wise it would add realism when your settlers drive them out of their homes and enslave their people.

4. Bring back the feature from civ 2 where barbarians contact you and demand ransom to not destroy your city.

These things would bring some measure of realism to the barbarians and stop them from taking over the world.



WarKirby

PS: When will you be releasing the next patch. and will it have multiplayer? Even just hotseat would be good so my cousin can play.

 

[Zoo7]

I wonder about all the complaints about too powerful barbarians... is this on the earth map? Because on the random maps I always play, barbarians are target practice. Sometimes civilizations race to be the first to a new barbarian city...

But I wanted to ask about another curious thing I noticed in my current game. I have a free specialist in two of my cities I can't account for. I don't have any wonders that gives free specialists, and it's only in those two cities anyway. Anybody have an idea?