[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[Kaiser Franz]

Once again - thanks for your quick response

I only use the military adviser to try to find units that I have sent "exploring" - like a Privateer that is off looking around and I can't find -- the military adviser should let me look for all units of a certain type and provide a blinking light at their location -- this "new" military adviser is more of a problem than a solution -- it's really slowing things down and doesn't display units the way I am accustom to looking at them.

Maybe I just need to adjust my thinking

 

[Xylander]

In MP the game is out of sync every 2-5 turns (with two similar Asus Notebooks over WLAN - working fine with civ4 whole the time). Furthermore you can't play it in German because the known bug (with umlauts).

I have no idea how to fix that and after I've been searching the forums for an hour not finding anything helping me I give up.

Sounded great but doesn't matter - I only play in MP.

 

[Fiend777Fits]

<snip>. i'm about to get skull <snip> by barbs. wasnt expecting this at all in a mod. gonna have to start over and research hunting first (instead of agriculture). nice mod though. i like the idea of expanding by conquest more than settling. puts more of an emphasis on military earlier on. <snip> theres a lot of weed around.


Moderator Action: Warned for foul language.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Kaiser Franz]

OK -- I'm well along in the game -- at turn 533 - and I have a pot full of military units -- the last time I checked the military adviser ( not for what to make - but for where upgradeable units were hiding ) it took 11 minutes for the military adviser screen to open up -- for heavens sake, don't ask him to show you the units in a different configuration because he really gets constipated and goes somewhere to read a book because it takes just as long for him to change the display -- for instance, "by location" -- I really would like to go back to the old military adviser -- any way to do that ?

 

[Anaztazioch]

@ Kaiser Franz

Dont know.
I belive that stack promotions are the reason here. He has to check every stacked units and see what promotion it gets etc. It really slow down the game.
Stack promotion was Real pain in the ass in early TR (shortly after the third ressurection)

 

[Fiend777Fits]

F$#@!!! i am pissed. i just spent over 50 or so turns trying to conquer two cities. was playin as the germans and had to make some early game sacrifices to gain enough territory (4 cities). which was comparitively good for a european civ. my neighbors around me are all limited to 2 maybe 3 cities. archers have always pissed me off, being so strong defensively made the game almost completely suicide rushes. so it was a fun surprise to find out all of the early game would be composed almost entirely of archers.

that d&#37;$#@&bag napoleon attacked me (which i was just preparing to do to him, shortly). 4 archers he initially sent. Keeping to the foresty-hills he made his way thru my territory, never really able to attack any cities (as archers are protecting all cities). but thats right, i get the degenerate archer for a uu. nothing real special about him, except his city defense is half. great!!! still, this is good enough to ward off archers. it took me about 10 chariots to stop em (loss of 6), so i learned a lesson from this: dont attack anything on a foresty-hill. after that he sent 3 more, and i smartly maneuvered them onto a grassland where i pretty much massarcred them (loss of 1 chariot)

so off to gay paris. or so i thought. there i found 4 archers. with about 12 chariots i figured i could take it. grassland this time, although the 50% city defense bonus and 25% fortify bonus (as well as a constant city defense bonus) are actually more defense bonuses than a foresty-hill. lost 10 of my chariots without a single loss on the enemy. there hp was approximately (1.7, 1.3, 2.3, 1.3). after gathering my forces up again in preparation to hit em again, i realized they had more than double the number of archers originally guarding paris.

so i went south to take antium (now a french city). at last glance he had 3 archers. so i thought i'd sneak up on him with another 12 chariots. when i got there he now had 2 archers and 2 mercs(impi and spearmen middle league). this time my withdraw ability actually kicked in (since it hadn't once until now). i lost 7 or 8 chariots and left the enemy with one merc spearmen (at 1.0 hp). next turn rolled around and his merc spearmen was completely helaed along with another merc and two more archers. where does this guy get the money for mercs? i got lucky early on and was able to pick up 197 gold in goody huts, which pretty much paid for the first half of this war. the latter half would break me. anyway, i luckily had a couple more chariots pull in in time, but it still looked hopeless. so i decided to send everything, injured or not, into antium. at this point, i was just gonna quit after i did it, but oddly enough, i got one or 2 withdrawals and i ended up leaving antium with that same merc spearmen again (at 0.3 hp). the next turn he must have went rogue and hit the road because antium was empty. i took it and began to think about the campaign to take paris.

i was gonna need a lot of chariots. at this point, some of you might be saying i should diversify my attack, thats why i'm hurtin like stalin on his way to berlin. well as far as the early game is concerned. all there is archers and if you're lucky like me with horses, you can have chariots. at the time i was working on bronze working to get my wild spearman, but it was gonna be awhile as i couldnt raise my research rate above 50% (without losing too much gold per turn). i had just gotten some plunder out of antium, which would keep me afloat for a little bit. but i was gonna have to take paris to stay afloat for a little longer after that.

so with about 25 chariots i approached paris. i was startled to see he had 15 archers. and at that point, i quit. because i realized it wouldn't really end, the build up race. i could drop my research rate to 0% and get maybe another 15 or so chariots, but my enemy would do the same and have at least 8 more archers. we'd both be locked in stale-mate and wouldnt be able to research anything to get out of it. so that was it. the game is dumb and pointless.

 

[Anaztazioch]

@ Fiend777Fits

So sorry you cant capture cities with 4 chariots.
Possibly you dont know how to use promotions for city attacks etc etc.
I allways go with 2 times bigger army than defenders, NEVER use automatic stack attacks, or attack with "select all", he often attacks with units that i usually leave for weakened army.
For instance
If you attack II chariot gets killed by and archer than chariot with attack I may not kill same archer. So i use weaker units 1st to weaken enemy units and than stronger ones to finish the job.
And dont attack archers with huntsmans... use huntesman to draw archers out of city and killem with their +25 defance vs archer.

Also, chariots are units that are used to kill armies, not attack cities. Shortswordsman, axeman and swordsman are city raiding units. Or simply use Immortals with can defeat swordsman (same strength).


Really, this is no empire earth or age of empires where the one that makes most units wins.

the game is dumb and pointless.

Conquest is not the only way to win.

Play on easier difficulaty.
Resarch differant techs.
Build differant units.

And most importantly, WorldMap has many rivers, so you have trade routes early on - USE EM and get higher population in cities, and money for mercenaries.

this time my withdraw ability actually kicked in (since it hadn't once until now). i lost 7 or 8 chariots and left the enemy with one merc spearmen (at 1.0 hp

Chariots with withdraw rate, no wonder you could not kill anything...
Chariots collateral damage is almost none (or none it self), so withdraw for them is pointless.


And be aware that stacking many units may result in crowded promotion (-10&#37;, -20% withdraw, +1 terrain movement cost and so on).

Later in game you will whine about catapults and siege weapons being to strong.

 

[Fiend777Fits]

Possibly you dont know how to use promotions for city attacks etc etc.

i started out using mostly barrage promotions and then later on i started using barrage on some and attack promotions on others. i'd start attacking with the barrage promoted units and then try to finish off the semi-weakened units with the atttack promoted units

I allways go with 2 times bigger army than defenders, NEVER use automatic stack attacks, or attack with "select all", he often attacks with units that i usually leave for weakened army.

i'm using 2-3 times bigger armies every time i attack a city. didnt you read my post? i never stack attack.

So i use weaker units 1st to weaken enemy units and than stronger ones to finish the job.
And dont attack archers with huntsmans... use huntesman to draw archers out of city and killem with their +25 defance vs archer.

thats exactly what i do. i end up with a couple well promoted units, but the rest are slaughtered. i only use huntsman for defending my stacks and any last ditch effort.

Also, chariots are units that are used to kill armies, not attack cities. Shortswordsman, axeman and swordsman are city raiding units. Or simply use Immortals with can defeat swordsman (same strength).

this is still early game and chariots and huntsman are the only units i have to work with, but since i'm stuck in this costly useless war i'd never be able to research any of these other unit's techs in any reasonable time. the point i'm trying to make is the early game blows becaue there is no way to win a war against the archer.

Really, this is no empire earth or age of empires where the one that makes most units wins.

its called keeping up with the enemy. if i dont build more units than him (at this early stage, it has to be at least 4 to 1), i might as well not build any.

Conquest is not the only way to win.
Play on easier difficulaty.
Resarch differant techs.
Build differant units.

conquest? i'm just tryin to take 2 cities, and i was attacked. i play prince level because anything less and the ai hardly ever declare war.

And most importantly, WorldMap has many rivers, so you have trade routes early on - USE EM and get higher population in cities, and money for mercenaries.

all my cities stop being productive at 7 (with 2 luxury resources). i havent seen any of this money you're talking bout except in goody huts and pillaging or capturing cities.

Chariots with withdraw rate, no wonder you could not kill anything...
Chariots collateral damage is almost none (or none it self), so withdraw for them is pointless.

i hardly ever used the withdraw promotion, but they have a natural withdrawl ability which is nearly non-existent

And be aware that stacking many units may result in crowded promotion (-10%, -20% withdraw, +1 terrain movement cost and so on).

i never heard of this crowded promotion. please explain further

Later in game you will whine about catapults and siege weapons being to strong.

no. thats exactly what i want. stronger offensive units or weaker defensive units early in the game so that some progress can be made in any wars which come up.

 

[Houman]

@Fiend777Fits

Do you know how to use stack promotions? I hardly have ever had any problem to take a city. Combine different units for attack (Archers, Melee and Chariots) and have 8 of them or so stacked. Train them while attacking lonely units of the field. There are so many tactics you could use in Civ.

 

[Anaztazioch]

And be aware that stacking many units may result in crowded promotion (-10&#37;, -20% withdraw, +1 terrain movement cost and so on).

Stack promotions. Total Realism feature. Its a promotion you get for stacking units, eg if you have 2 units in same title, they get stack promotion of all other units on same title (one unit does not give stack promotion to it self).

So if you have 2 melee unit stack both units get lvl 1 melee aid. If you got archer and warrior(melee unit) stack, archer gets melee aid, and warrior gets ranged aid.
If you have 3 melee, all of em gets lvl 2 melee aid. You need 3 melee + the one more melee, and each of them gets melee 3.
Stack promotion are left when stack is changed (unit dies, or moves away).

Here are stacked promotions max is lvl 3, each level gives same :
Melee aid
+5% strength
+5% city raid
ranged aid
+5% city defance
+5% hill defance
siege aid
+5% city raid
+5% withdraw(dont rember) or +5% collateral dmage (also dont remember)
mounted aid
+5% strength
+5% withdraw rate
scout aid
+5% withdraw
+5% (dont remember)
armored aid
dont remember if it exists

And crowded, you need 14 or arround units on same title (great generals are counted)
-10% strength
-10% (or more) withdraw
+1 terrain movement
and there is something more.


And a hint. If someone declares a war vs you, dont try to counter it, defand dont try to take his city, unless you are highly more advanced in military. Kill his attacking army and eighther as someone to help, or sign peace.

Also for combat, chariots are weak, get bronze working and copper, or horseback riding with horses, cateprahts have quite good collateral damage.
Still chariots and cateprahts have very low collateral damage so barrage doesnt do much, rather pointless.

 

[Anaztazioch]

@Fiend777Fits

Do you know how to use stack promotions? I hardly have ever had any problem to take a city. Combine different units for attack (Archers, Melee and Chariots) and have 8 of them or so stacked. Train them while attacking lonely units of the field. There are so many tactics you could use in Civ.

He said that he attack with chariots and huntsman(dor defend stacked chariots). Other units he can have are mercenaries(no money), warrior and scout.

 

[Fiend777Fits]

funny i never noticed any of these stack promotions. and i was constantly using stacks.

all i'm sayin is archers need to be weakened. perhaps only +25&#37; city defense (like my huntsman) and/or stronger melee/mounted units with city attack bonuses.

 

[Anaztazioch]

What about Incan Quetcha ? +75&#37; vs archer.

Also note that archer is defencive unit from ancient to midlages. So it must be strong or get whiped.

stronger melee/mounted units

Like strength 6 and +15% city raid is not a strong melee unit ?
Or Persian Immortal strength 4 +40% vs melee, +25% vs archery.
Or Romanum Legionarius strength 6 +15% city attack +20% vs melee.
Horse archer +25%(?) vs archery, +30% vs melee.
Cateprahts strength 7, quite good callateral damage.
Or forgotten war elephants strength 8 +40%(?) vs melee, +20%(?) vs archery and impresive collateral damage.

There are so many strong units, but you cant have em without resarching techs !


I dont know why, but i never have any problems conquering a city with 3 archers, even a walled city.
Maybe becouse i dont use chariots to attack cities, or i dont attack walled cities on hills.

Now that you mention it, i remember Civ III. Making 15 cavalaries and conquering 10 cities with only them.

all i'm sayin is archers need to be weakened. perhaps only +25% city defense

French and Celtic archers have +50% city defance.
Huntsman has only +25% becouse he has +25% defance vs Archer.


I learned better use of units and promotion in Diety, where i could not have much units, so i had to keep em well trained with "perfect" promotions. Of couse till Cyrus attacked me with stack of 27 immortals, 16 persian spearmans, 10 warriors and 4 mercenary archers... (now thats what you call a crowded promotion)

As for melee units attacking cities. Sometimes its better to have Combat I and Cover I than City Raider II.

And ever heared of Pyrrhic victory ? Why cant you have such Pyrrhic victory in the game as well ?

And last thing:
Know that if You cant capture his cities, He will have same (or atleast close) problems with capturing yours.
And if you Really want STRONG offencive units and WEAKER defencive, than why you want defencive units in the first place, when they get whiped out faster than getting them built !

 

[THARN]

Why don't you just send him to the strategy and tips section of the forums.
Your being very kind to explain how things work in the game.
Looks like to me Fiend777 is using the old civ 3 way of conquest, which doesn;t work that well here in civ 4.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Will the Warlords version make use of more ethnic deverse units and use the many new city graphics, Fixaxis made or otherwise, released?

 

[jimmygeo]

I'm playing the Romans and its 1936. Most of the world is within my empire with only four opponents left. One of those, Persia, has only one tiny city left (on Hudson Bay, no less) and I'm set to take that with a tank and mech. inf. I go to end the turn and what happens? Total blackness and finally a request from Microsoft to send an error report, which I do. Re-boot the PC and re-load the saved game but it craps out (again!) at the end of the load (14 minutes!!) with a "Cannot create 3D device" error. In the later turns this mod is just too buggy to play. Too bad.

jimmygeo

 

[Anaztazioch]

114 pages
2276+1 posts

Wonder how much of them were off topic

 

[Harrier]

114 pages
2276+1 posts

Wonder how much of them were off topic

Well the above one is for sure.

 

[Anaztazioch]

No it was on topic. Saying how popular Total Realism is dummy

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Will the Warlords version make use of more ethnic deverse units and use the many new city graphics, Fixaxis made or otherwise, released?

Can someone answer my post please. I will shower them with gifts from the nile...lol just kidding. (Your probably thinking I'm strange now, but then again alittle weird goes along way)