[Mod] True Culture Location and Territory Naming for the Giant Earth Map

[UncivilizedGuy]

I'm not sure I understand the question, Assyria is guaranteed to be available (until more cultures are introduced), it's just a bug in alpha2 that it isn't the case already.

"Civilization_Era1_Phoenicia", new List<int>() { 188, 190, 106, 157 } }, // Morocco, Carthage, Liban, Lybia { "Civilization_Era1_EgyptianKingdom", new List<int>() { 128 } }, // Egypt { "Civilization_Era1_HittiteEmpire", new List<int>() { 123, 118 } }, // East/West Anatiolia { "Civilization_Era1_Babylon", new List<int>() { 142 } }, // Iraq { "Civilization_Era1_Assyria", new List<int>() { 142 } }, // Iraq { "Civilization_Era1_HarappanCivilization", new List<int>() { 146, 207, 147 } }, // Afghanistan, Pakistan, North India { "Civilization_Era1_MycenaeanCivilization", new List<int>() { 101, 102, 103 } }, // Greece, Balkans, Bulgaria/Romania
{ "Civilization_Era1_Nubia", new List<int>() { 132, 209, 213 } }, // Sudan, Ethiopia/Somalia, Central African Republic

For the sake of realism, the current set-up is very specific to a limited number of territories. But for this reason it's possible to not unlock a culture during the Neolithic. My understanding is that you're current fix is to allow a few cultures to be available to everyone. What I'm suggesting is to have every territory on the map unlock a culture. Divide the map up into large regions that overlap. Each region connected to a different culture.

For example, Sub-Saharan Africa is not connected to any culture at the moment. Nubia is the closest culture. Therefore have all of those territories unlock Nubia. On the other hand, Northern Africa could unlock Egypt and Nubia. So as new cultures are added to the game these regions could be reduced in size.

 

[Gedemon]

Ha, yes, now I get it.

But then a Culture can be selected by someone close of (but not owning) the Capital territory, preventing the Empire that owns it to select this Culture (unless I allow all cultures to be picked by all players)

It also goes against my next goal (keeping only the territory of the new Culture on upgrade)

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Ha, yes, now I get it.

But then a Culture can be selected by someone close of (but not owning) the Capital territory, preventing the Empire that owns it to select this Culture (unless I allow all cultures to be picked by all players)

It also goes against my next goal (keeping only the territory of the new Culture on upgrade)

Maybe I'm confused as to what you're trying to achieve. So let's say I reach the Ancient era and I don't have a capital territory. So I choose the Goths. What happens next? Can I upgrade one of my outposts to a city? Or do I get moved to their cultural geographic location?

Also your idea of shrinking territory back down to the new cultural territory seems to make every era into a mini-game. Which I'm cool with. History sort of worked that way. Empires always fall.

 

[Gedemon]

Assyria, and you can upgrade an outpost to a city anywhere as in the base game. For the other cultures, I don't plan to use the "reset territory" mechanism for the first era, when you've just placed outposts.

And yes, I want to see how a kind of "restart" in some era (if you choose to, and there are some paths that won't feel that way, like Phoenicia->Carthage) plays on a full game.

 

[Gedemon]

Oh, my savior! And I thought that real Earth maps would be pretty useless to me in this game.

From your modding experience and perspective - is it possible to make AI change city names when new culture is adopted? I'm asking not specifically here, on GEM, but on generated maps.

I'm new to this kind of modding, but from what I've seen so far, any change is possible on the gameplay side, the issue is more about finding how to deploy the mods the easiest way for the authors and the users.

 

[Gedemon]

Alpha 3 attached to OP

Changelog:

• Fix backup Culture (Assyria ATM) not available for an AI once selected by another AI
• Set Goths, Norse, Celts as Cultures available for multiple players/AI owning one of their territories

 

[Tigranes]

How was it fixed exactly, please? Say AI or human player 7 picks Assyria, what will be left to pick for player 8? There will be 2 Assyrias?

 

[Gedemon]

Fixed because there was a check in the code that I missed when the AI validates the order to change Culture (which didn't affect the human I think)

The mechanism itself is that Assyria can be picked in multiple way by anyone:
- its assigned "starting territory" (Iraq)
- being player 7 or player 8
- having collected 50 knowledge stars in the Neolithic Era (the last one in case a player near a Culture Starting Position lost it or do not settle in it, very rare in my test games, but happened once)

So yes you can have multiple players with Assyria, and up to 3 with Goths (3 "starting territories"), 6 Celts or 6 Norse (very unlikely to have as much of the Celts/Norse as their respective territories are grouped together and quite far from the Starting positions of more than 1 player...)

My current Alpha 3 game, testing multiple Goths (me from "Ukraine", AI from "South Sweden")

Spoiler :

 

[Aquila SPQR]

It actually is a cool idea to have two or more players having the same culture, living next to each other. Like Greek city states or Germanic/Celtic/any other tribes, being separate states but sharing common culture.

 

[aguaacrobata2]

It actually is a cool idea to have two or more players having the same culture, living next to each other. Like Greek city states or Germanic/Celtic/any other tribes, being separate states but sharing common culture.

Agreed... When two players have the same cultures and they start creating cities, do we get the same names for the cities? For example, in this case, the first city created by the "Ukranian Goths" would be called Gothinscandza, but if then the "South Sweden Goths" create a city would this one be called also Gothinscandza or Oium instead?

 

[Tigranes]

My current Alpha 3 game, testing multiple Goths (me from "Ukraine", AI from "South Sweden")

Spoiler :

View attachment 609103

View attachment 609104

Well, Visigoths and Ostrogoths fought each other on the Catalaunian fields, and fought together against Franks later -- so this is most welcomed occurrence. By the way, before the fix player 8 would stay as a Neolithic tribe for the duration of the game -- not a very bad idea once we can set up 10 players and one such tribe in Australia.

It is also cool to see Parthian Independents right next to Achaemenid Persians. I take it nothing can be done about other Independent people to spawn around their historical homeland during the corresponding eras?

Without this mod but with your map I was trying to unlock Myceneans as player 6, but Indian player would always grab it first (even on easiest difficulty). AI just LOVES Myceneans...

 

[Gedemon]

I was actually looking at the code to spawn independent people, and how much could be placed on the map (top limit seems to be 100, but I've not found where the actual limit is set yet, could be dependent of the number of majors, like 5x major empires, but then I've not found where the Major are set, except the max seems to be 16, not 10)

First step for me is trying to have "rebels of..." (the independent people that spawn when "liberating" a city) take control of the territory of a previous culture, when changed and not part of the new Culture territory. Once done I may know enough to list territories for independent people the same way as I did for major Empires, and have them spawn in the correct era.

Could be nice to have them spawn as "rebels of..." for a Culture that hasn't been chosen if its territory is still free at its corresponding era.

 

[Gedemon]

Started to code the next step

Spoiler :

 

[Gedemon]

ho, and just found out that updating the city center visual is one line of code...

So when the Capital city needs to change because it was in the previous territory, the new Capital get the new Culture style.

Spoiler :

 

[Vanilla Feline]

Hey Gedemon, I have nothing to contribute but just wanted to let you know this looks wicked!

I'm a big fan of your mods and they've honestly been the biggest reason I played Civ V and VI. Looking forward to this!

Keep it up man!

 

[Tigranes]

@Gedemon Don't you think this mechanics is too harsh on human player and will completely ruin AI opponents? Perhaps we can find a middle ground? Like keep the old city/ territory if it was ever in new culture's greatest extent realm. Take Goths for example:

With this liberal interpretation your Knossos Goths can keep Mycenian lands.
And lets talk some compensation. Early modern Settler unit can anachronistically appear near new capital for every old city lost to independents. They can build new city with up to date infrastructure. Also refund some influence for every lost territory.

 

[Tigranes]

By the way, why does Byzantium get unlocked from West Anatolia only? Did you mean East instead? And also Balkans and Greece can be included, wouldn't you think so? There is no Thrace, so Constantinople is in Balkans on your map.

 

[Gedemon]

I'd like to keep the starting territories relatively small (depending of the empire history of course), to prevent a (human mostly) player to easily lock some Cultures for the other players on era change.

But I do need to change my current list, because it was made for alpha1 before I had a clear idea of the mechanism.

What I'd like now is to unlock only by owning the capital territory and keep the "core" territories of the new Culture. In my table, the "capital territory" will be the first listed, the others being the territories that are kept when you already own them.

With a few exceptions, the Cultures that can be unlocked by multiple players, those don't have a "capital territory", and owning any of them unlock the culture.

So yes, the current territory list needs some edits, some potential "starting Empire" will be expanded.

I also ponder adding Phoenicia to the multiple possible players list.

And yes, refunding influence/gold is the planned compensation (and with a bit of fame too maybe, even if nobody cares)

Maybe not too much so that you can't just buy back everything the next turn (or maybe I'll spawn hostile armies in those areas)

 

[Aquila SPQR]

I don't think I like the idea of losing territory when adopting new culture. I consider changing cultures in Humankind as "evolution" and I see no reason why my capital city for example should suddenly rebel and force me to siege it and conquer just because my society evolved.

I hope this feature will be optional and not forced on players.

 

[Tigranes]

I'd like to keep the starting territories relatively small (depending of the empire history of course), to prevent a (human mostly) player to easily lock some Cultures for the other players on era change.

But I do need to change my current list, because it was made for alpha1 before I had a clear idea of the mechanism.

What I'd like now is to unlock only by owning the capital territory and keep the "core" territories of the new Culture. In my table, the "capital territory" will be the first listed, the others being the territories that are kept when you already own them.

With a few exceptions, the Cultures that can be unlocked by multiple players, those don't have a "capital territory", and owning any of them unlock the culture.

So yes, the current territory list needs some edits, some potential "starting Empire" will be expanded.

I also ponder adding Phoenicia to the multiple possible players list.

And yes, refunding influence/gold is the planned compensation (and with a bit of fame too maybe, even if nobody cares)

Maybe not too much so that you can't just buy back everything the next turn (or maybe I'll spawn hostile armies in those areas)

I am a big fan of semi-historical play/ Earth maps, seeing accurate city names, more or less accurate cultures adds so much enjoyment when you want to re-experience history not just do things on abstract continents with abstract culture changes. Is there any way to publish the entire map with territory numbers/names showing for easy reference? I would like to contribute suggestions in revising the current list.

Also can we please swap player 1 and player 2 starting locations? If you add Syria to Phoenicia list -- the player 1 starting in Iraq can unlock 4 cultures potentially: Babylon, Assyria, Phoenicia, Hittites (and even migrate to Harappa with some effort). Sometimes one wants to avoid all that Multiplayer leaders switching back from your pre-assigned order or avoid Multiplayer mode completely, so instead of starting in Africa with Nubia/Egypt choice -- starting in cradle of civilization for Single player (player 1) will be more convenient (more choices!).