[mod] Warlords: Total Realism Gold

[tahnkout]

The first round beer is mine too when you visit izmir or istanbul!Cheers!!!

 

[Hian the Frog]

Hi,

Cool, some beers to drink !
And two cities to visit.....

We are working hard and this week many job was done. Many add-ons and new stuff are finished but we still some heavy problems with our GREAT project. I hope it will be added also.
As this is the end of the week, we will have more free time to continue.

Wait, and train yourself with the mod as it will become even more nice , difficult but fun !

Hian the Frog

 

[Skeeve]

Great news - thanks for keeping us updated.
Any chance at a sneak peek at your change log?

 

[Anaztazioch]

New ethnic units
Updated some unit animations
New buildings.
More ballanced World Map
Updated barbarians
New slavary system
New leaders
New leader traits
Updating homepage

Enough changelog ?

 

[Stacmon]

Any chance my suggested Islamic Temple change (or something similar made it in?)

More Realistic Islamic Temple

 

[Hian the Frog]

Any chance my suggested Islamic Temple change (or something similar made it in?)

More Realistic Islamic Temple

Hi Man,

I can't give an answer. I really don't know. I don't find enough time to read what you suggested....
Maybe yes, maybe no. We have to look at it.

Hian the Frog.

 

[Stacmon]

No problem, the general summary was that the current Muslim Temple decreases trade route yield (-15% I think). However, trade has been a driving force behind the spread of Islam, and trade has always been crucial to Muslim empires in the past.

The reason this was done, as I have understood, is to reflect that loaning money on interest is generally seen as incorrect by most Muslim scholars.

Therefore, I suggested that to better represent Islam and its crucial effect on trade, that Muslim temples should from now on have statistics roughly like:

+1 (Trade Routes)
-5% or -10% (Gold, not Commerce, ie: research is unaffected)
Pig -1, -1
Pig automatically gives +1 health, and -1 health simply removes that, rather than actually reducing health. Therefore, happiness should also be decreased, as having pig available for consumption would make the religiously devout unhappy.
Wine -2
Again, since wine automatically gives +1 happiness, happiness should not only be reduced to 0 but reduced by the presence of alcohol, which is clearly prohibited in Islam.

The +1 from both Cow and Sheep can be scrapped in order to get rid of the -5% for production. Also, it is more realistic, as refusing to eat pork or drinking alcohol would not suddenly make eating more lamb or beef healthier.

In that post, I also suggested we increase the number of Islamic Missionaries controllable by a player at any time from 2 to 3 or 4. Islam is also a religion that heavily encourages preaching the faith and every Muslim is required to communicate the faith to others to better inform them about it, in the hope that they will see it as the true religion.

Increasing the number of missionaries would let Christianity keep its missionary advantage (3 or 4 Muslim missionaries versus 6 Christian missionaries at a time) but would make it more realistic than the currently very limiting 2 missionaries.

 

[Anaztazioch]

Well.

+1 trade routes I agree.
-10% gold i agree
Pig +1 ? Why. Having pigs in country makes muslims go hunt them for sport ? Besides, it would hurt AI, as islamic nations constantly buy wine and pigs from me when ever i have them.
Wine -2. Also why ? Fact that they have wine, does not mean they must go break bottles and spill it down.
-5% production needs to be removed i agree. Islamic civs in game have low production even without tepmles (exept Turkey).

But having Islamic Cathedral, it should give +1 from wine and pigs, but not temple.

Immams. Islam can have 2 or 3 (3 if i remember correct) + Islam automaticly spreads to accuired cities (eigther by trade, cultural cliping, conquer. Settling new ones does not spread religion). Islam cannot spread too fast, so it cannot have too many missionaries (immams in TR). Its a hard religion, so eigther less Immams, or more Immams, but they will have only 60% or less chance of spreading religion.

 

[Stacmon]

Well the reason I was suggesting greater unhappiness from Pig and Wine is because they are both contrary to the religion.

For instance, consider how many conservative Christians are strongly against Homosexual marriage, or abortion. They believe both are prohibited by their religion, and the presence of either in their society will cause them unhappiness. This is so even if it doesn't affect them directly, but rather society as a whole, which they feel is immoral.

The reason that I suggested -1 happiness from Pig is because the consumption of pigs in a society that sees that as contrary to its religion would make people unhappy.

When it comes to wine, the current -1 happiness simply removes the +1 happiness received from wine as a luxury resource.

However, observant Muslims wouldn't just be indifferent to the presence of alcohol/wine in their society, this would make them unhappy because alcohol is strictly prohibited. That is why -2 happiness is more realistic (in my view), because the net effect of possessing the luxury is -1 happiness, so it is better not to build a winery, or not trade for it in the first place.

If this is too complicated for the AI, then I understand why it can't be properly implemented.

Regarding Islamic missionaries (Imams), I think players should be able to build at least 3 as 2 is extremely limiting. They can be more expensive to produce than Christian missionaries, but we should recall that Islam is the last religion to be founded, and therefore is most likely at a strong disadvantage in the first place.

I agree that the higher spread rate of the religion helps, as well as conquest, but I still think that 2 Imams buildable at a time is too few for a missionary religion like Islam.

Thanks for considering my suggestions! Whichever ones you decide to adopt, I hope my feedback helps improve the mod, which is by far my favourite!

 

[IlikeTanks]

How about them helicopters? Being shot down by Macmen and Longbowmen still a little embarrasing...

 

[knigh+]

Well the reason I was suggesting greater unhappiness from Pig and Wine is because they are both contrary to the religion.

For instance, consider how many conservative Christians are strongly against Homosexual marriage, or abortion. They believe both are prohibited by their religion, and the presence of either in their society will cause them unhappiness. This is so even if it doesn't affect them directly, but rather society as a whole, which they feel is immoral.

The reason that I suggested -1 happiness from Pig is because the consumption of pigs in a society that sees that as contrary to its religion would make people unhappy.

When it comes to wine, the current -1 happiness simply removes the +1 happiness received from wine as a luxury resource.

However, observant Muslims wouldn't just be indifferent to the presence of alcohol/wine in their society, this would make them unhappy because alcohol is strictly prohibited. That is why -2 happiness is more realistic (in my view), because the net effect of possessing the luxury is -1 happiness, so it is better not to build a winery, or not trade for it in the first place.

If this is too complicated for the AI, then I understand why it can't be properly implemented.

Regarding Islamic missionaries (Imams), I think players should be able to build at least 3 as 2 is extremely limiting. They can be more expensive to produce than Christian missionaries, but we should recall that Islam is the last religion to be founded, and therefore is most likely at a strong disadvantage in the first place.

I agree that the higher spread rate of the religion helps, as well as conquest, but I still think that 2 Imams buildable at a time is too few for a missionary religion like Islam.

Thanks for considering my suggestions! Whichever ones you decide to adopt, I hope my feedback helps improve the mod, which is by far my favourite!

People don't have to include pigs into their society just because they are there. I don't see how having some pigs in the wild would cause unrest. Why don't you make Muslims totally ignore the pig resource? - no benefit, no penalty.

As for wine, muslims don't drink doesn't mean they can't sell it to non-muslims. Many muslim civs through history allowed wine production.

 

[brownzie]

Well the reason I was suggesting greater unhappiness from Pig and Wine is because they are both contrary to the religion.

For instance, consider how many conservative Christians are strongly against Homosexual marriage, or abortion. They believe both are prohibited by their religion, and the presence of either in their society will cause them unhappiness. This is so even if it doesn't affect them directly, but rather society as a whole, which they feel is immoral.

The reason that I suggested -1 happiness from Pig is because the consumption of pigs in a society that sees that as contrary to its religion would make people unhappy.

When it comes to wine, the current -1 happiness simply removes the +1 happiness received from wine as a luxury resource.

However, observant Muslims wouldn't just be indifferent to the presence of alcohol/wine in their society, this would make them unhappy because alcohol is strictly prohibited. That is why -2 happiness is more realistic (in my view), because the net effect of possessing the luxury is -1 happiness, so it is better not to build a winery, or not trade for it in the first place.

If this is too complicated for the AI, then I understand why it can't be properly implemented.

Regarding Islamic missionaries (Imams), I think players should be able to build at least 3 as 2 is extremely limiting. They can be more expensive to produce than Christian missionaries, but we should recall that Islam is the last religion to be founded, and therefore is most likely at a strong disadvantage in the first place.

I agree that the higher spread rate of the religion helps, as well as conquest, but I still think that 2 Imams buildable at a time is too few for a missionary religion like Islam.

Thanks for considering my suggestions! Whichever ones you decide to adopt, I hope my feedback helps improve the mod, which is by far my favourite!

FOX News anybody? get your fresh FOX news

 

[Stacmon]

People don't have to include pigs into their society just because they are there. I don't see how having some pigs in the wild would cause unrest. Why don't you make Muslims totally ignore the pig resource? - no benefit, no penalty.

Well, there's a difference between having pigs in the wild, within your borders and creating a pasture to gather them as a resource for your cities, or trading for the pigs from other civilizations. So I'm not sure I really understand your argument.

As for wine, muslims don't drink doesn't mean they can't sell it to non-muslims. Many muslim civs through history allowed wine production.

I think I understand what you mean here, about wine being sold within Muslim civilizations among non-muslims, but it is actually prohibited for Muslims to sell forbidden goods, even if they don't consume them themselves.

It's also true that some Muslim civilizations have allowed wine production in the past, either because non-muslim groups within predominantly Muslim civilizations have cultivated it, or because unobservant Muslims did so. Like in other parts of the world, some rulers have been very religiously devoted, while others have been extremely secular.

FOX News anybody? get your fresh FOX news

I have no idea what you mean by this comment. Can you clarify it?

 

[brownzie]

lmao, lets just say a certain political party in america likes watching FOX news, and that certain political party has there own views in the world.

 

[Stacmon]

Well, I know all about FOX news. I watch it for laughs whenever I visit the US.

If your comment was suggesting that I'm just regurgitating right-wing stereotypes about Muslims, I completely disagree.

I feel the views and suggestions I expressed above are pretty valid. My comments about conservative Christians with problems regarding other people's calling for homosexual marriage or legalized abortion were just meant to clarify how something that doesn't affect someone personally may make them unhappy if it occurs in society as a whole.

 

[Anaztazioch]

Wine +1, -1 means they dont drink it, and thusly ar not drunk (happy).
Pigs +1, -1 means they dont eat them, but breed them. Maybe another -1 as thos annimals are not one of those "clean" ones.

My comments about conservative Christians with problems regarding other people's calling for homosexual marriage

What society you are talking about ? Religious people, that belive in God, or "religious" people that go to Church everyday and listen to lies of Priests that know nothing about life, being prohibed to have marriage. How can they talk about abortion, or hommosexual marriages, if they cannot have children, nor heterosexual marriage ?

And it has been said earlier by Hian the Frog. This threat is given to Warlords Total Realism project, not disscutiona bout religions. Dont post things here, there are Threats reserved for this topic. If you continue discution about it here, I (we) will have to ask moderators eigther to remove them, or move them to "rigthfull" threats.
Besides this Threat is long enought and If i have to answear another common question again becouse of those posts i will have your behind

 

[Stacmon]

Wine +1, -1 means they dont drink it, and thusly are not drunk (happy).

That's true, but I would argue that it would be more than that. It's not just that observant Muslims choose not to drink wine (and therefore, "are not happier because they don't get drunk") but instead they see it as something prohibited and wrong. That's why I suggested the additional 1 , for a total of 2 .

Pigs +1, -1 means they dont eat them, but breed them. Maybe another -1 as thos annimals are not one of those "clean" ones.

I understand your suggestion of an extra -1 health since these animals are not considered "clean," but they wouldn't make people unhealthy if they were not being eaten (since it is prohibited). That's why I was suggesting that instead of an extra -1 health, there was 1 , the reaction of observant Muslims to the presence and consumption of a forbidden food.

In any case, I've made my arguments, the final decision is up to you guys.

What society you are talking about ? Religious people, that belive in God, or "religious" people that go to Church everyday and listen to lies of Priests that know nothing about life, being prohibed to have marriage. How can they talk about abortion, or hommosexual marriages, if they cannot have children, nor heterosexual marriage ?

Obviously there is a great variety of Christians out there. The people I was referring to are the ones that actively and vocally oppose gay marriage and abortion, based on their strongly held beliefs. Not everyone thinks this way, but there are those that do. I was just trying to draw a parallel to reply to an argument offered above.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Obviously there is a great variety of Christians out there. The people I was referring to are the ones that actively and vocally oppose gay marriage and abortion, based on their strongly held beliefs. Not everyone thinks this way, but there are those that do. I was just trying to draw a parallel to reply to an argument offered above.

It is interesting to note that there were many islamic societies in the past that didn't strictly prohibit drinking alcohol. At the time of khalifate the only strict prohibition was attending prayer while drunk. Arabs invented the process of alcoholic distillation in VIII century; the very word "al'cohol" is arabic. It's well known that Omar Khayyam sang praises to drinking, and Ibn-Sina created the most complete compendum of alcoholic drinks and drugs of the age.

Strict prohibition of alcohol came with wide spread of orthodox (Hanbali) sunni Islam (quite unpopular in cultured arabic lands due to taking too literally on Quran) due to coming of turks to middle-east. Turks were strictly Hanbali and as they gained more power, the strict ban on alcohol has spread.

 

[butlerj1982]

Hopefully the developers are still reading this thread.

I can only say what a fantastic job. Im working on a mod myself so i know how much work this is. Thank you for contributing so mightily to the community and for making civ4 fresh again. My hats off to y'all, keep up the good work. I hope someone at firaxis notices your work... it is top-notch.

-John

 

[Störtebekerson]

Hopefully the developers are still reading this thread.

I can only say what a fantastic job. Im working on a mod myself so i know how much work this is. Thank you for contributing so mightily to the community and for making civ4 fresh again. My hats off to y'all, keep up the good work. I hope someone at firaxis notices your work... it is top-notch.

-John

Yeah right you are. I hope it embarrasses their @ss off, that they put more effort in possible future addons. More bang for our bucks. As if there would be need for a commercial addon
Vollt irr denn totahlen rrealismus?

The idea of drinking beer in Izmir, pearl of the Ägäis appeals to me.
And Istanbul is a city where I have been wanting to drink beer for a long time now.
The Hagia Sophia! One of the most beautiful religious buildings of the world. Das goldene Horn. Golden Horn sounds like a good name for a bar.