Modding the aspects of "Game Speed"

As it applies to this discussion I am going to include this here. Is it possible to make fractions of years pass for each turn? I tried it but got some errors when loading the game.

I never played any WWII scenarios but I imagine they found a way to make each turn less than a year or the whole war would be way too long. (or the game very short)

Anyone know? I will start a seperate thread to get the answer faster.
 
Hey guys, I might as well throw in my two cents as well since all the cool kids are doing it.

I just doubled the length relative to the Epic setting:
Everything is now at 300% - Except units and barbs, those are still 150%. I dropped units down to 100% before and found it was too easy to overwhelm the AI.
1300 turns vs 650 - still 6050 years
The way I redistributed the years/turn ratio was by making the relative time spent in each 'Era' the same.
ie.
The first 2 setting on epic combine to give the first 3000 years -> 4000BC-1000BC
The next 2 give the following 2000 years -> 1000BC-1000AD
and the final 3 give the final 1050 years -> 1000AD-2050AD

I left these proportions the same; the only difference is you spent an extra 70 turns in the first 2 eras instead of the last one, which I feel is insignificant over 1300 turns.

I also changed the inflation, hurry etc to what I felt were the appropriate levels.

Here is the NEW game speed - It doesn't replace Epic so you have to add a culture setting:
...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml
Code:
<GameSpeedInfo>
			<Type>GAMESPEED_REAL</Type>
			<Description>My Reality</Description>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_REAL_HELP</Help>
			<iGrowthPercent>300</iGrowthPercent>
			<iTrainPercent>150</iTrainPercent>
			<iConstructPercent>300</iConstructPercent>
			<iCreatePercent>300</iCreatePercent>
			<iResearchPercent>300</iResearchPercent>
			<iBuildPercent>300</iBuildPercent>
			<iImprovementPercent>300</iImprovementPercent>
			<iGreatPeoplePercent>300</iGreatPeoplePercent>
			<iCulturePercent>300</iCulturePercent>
			<iAnarchyPercent>300</iAnarchyPercent>
			<iBarbPercent>150</iBarbPercent>
			<iFeatureProductionPercent>300</iFeatureProductionPercent>
			<iUnitDiscoverPercent>300</iUnitDiscoverPercent>
			<iUnitHurryPercent>300</iUnitHurryPercent>
			<iUnitTradePercent>300</iUnitTradePercent>
			<iUnitGreatWorkPercent>300</iUnitGreatWorkPercent>
			<iGoldenAgePercent>300</iGoldenAgePercent>
			<iHurryPercent>33</iHurryPercent>
			<iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>300</iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>
			<iInflationPercent>9</iInflationPercent>
			<iInflationOffset>-300</iInflationOffset>
			<GameTurnInfos>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>15</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>120</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>11</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>150</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>5</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>120</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>2</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>240</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>180</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
				<GameTurnInfo>
					<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
					<iTurnsPerIncrement>390</iTurnsPerIncrement>
				</GameTurnInfo>
			</GameTurnInfos>
		</GameSpeedInfo>

After adding that you have to add to the culture file:
...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml
Code:
<SpeedThreshold>
					<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_REAL</GameSpeedType>
					<iThreshold>0</iThreshold>
				</SpeedThreshold>

Add that chunk of code above the Epic setting - doubleling the threshold values.

I also doubled the cost of Workers, Fast Workers and Settlers.
Those settings can be found in ...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml
The variable you are looking for is: <iCost></iCost>

So what do you think? Make sense? Any questions?
 
A concern I came across today (I've been programming my own speed mod independantly of this thread) - the slower speed / more units idea produces more cities, as was pointed out earlier.

However, just like in civ3, there's a hard cap over which your corruption..err, maintenance.. goes through the roof. The cap is based on world size, and ranges simply from 4 (duel, tiny) to 6 (huge).

Yes - the ideal number of cities per civ on a huge map is 6 cities. At the default (11) number of civs, that's only 66 cities in the world at the 'ideal' level. If you're finding as I did that games that move at a slower pace end up with substantially more cities and your maintenance costs get crippling after a successful territory war, consider modding this data as well.

The file is CIV4WorldInfo.xml, same place as GameSpeedInfo. I started by upping the 'huge' setting, the only size I play, to 12. It's working much better now.

Also of note in this file -- map size alters research costs. Might want to consider this while doing speed mods.
 
tofof said:
A concern I came across today (I've been programming my own speed mod independantly of this thread) - the slower speed / more units idea produces more cities, as was pointed out earlier.

However, just like in civ3, there's a hard cap over which your corruption..err, maintenance.. goes through the roof. The cap is based on world size, and ranges simply from 4 (duel, tiny) to 6 (huge).

Yes - the ideal number of cities per civ on a huge map is 6 cities. At the default (11) number of civs, that's only 66 cities in the world at the 'ideal' level. If you're finding as I did that games that move at a slower pace end up with substantially more cities and your maintenance costs get crippling after a successful territory war, consider modding this data as well.

The file is CIV4WorldInfo.xml, same place as GameSpeedInfo. I started by upping the 'huge' setting, the only size I play, to 12. It's working much better now.

Also of note in this file -- map size alters research costs. Might want to consider this while doing speed mods.

Oh thanks. I had no idea the ideal city cap was that low.
 
Horray! Just locked onto this wonderful thread.. Looking forward to trying people's attempts at perfecting a 'realistic' timeframe for research so that not tech does not become the sole provider and destroyer of nations but in fact just something that titters along happily by itself in the background and occasionally gets mentioned at diplomatic dinners. *grin*


It's also an absolute pleasure to hear that people are out there who are the same as me in terms of how they enjoy their Civ games in terms realism! *growls as he remembers about Firaxis' determination to make a completely cockery of history* Sheesh, the amount of times the A.I. has completely managed to bork managing the U.S.A. and ended up eloping into Greenland tp avoid a single unit of Barbarians? *sigh*
 
tofof said:
A concern I came across today (I've been programming my own speed mod independantly of this thread) - the slower speed / more units idea produces more cities, as was pointed out earlier.

However, just like in civ3, there's a hard cap over which your corruption..err, maintenance.. goes through the roof. The cap is based on world size, and ranges simply from 4 (duel, tiny) to 6 (huge).

Yes - the ideal number of cities per civ on a huge map is 6 cities. At the default (11) number of civs, that's only 66 cities in the world at the 'ideal' level. If you're finding as I did that games that move at a slower pace end up with substantially more cities and your maintenance costs get crippling after a successful territory war, consider modding this data as well.

The file is CIV4WorldInfo.xml, same place as GameSpeedInfo. I started by upping the 'huge' setting, the only size I play, to 12. It's working much better now.

Also of note in this file -- map size alters research costs. Might want to consider this while doing speed mods.
tofof ~ You caught it just before I did. I do think this needs to be taken into consideration. I'd suggest a revamped CIV4WorldInfo.xml in the mod, with higher "target cities" values for all map sizes. In mine I'm also including a larger (40x25) map size for more expansion throughout the longer game. It'll be rough to run on slower PCs, but that's why I'm making it a NEW size rather than replacing an existing one.

Like you pointed out, the CIV4WorldInfo file does change research. As I'm guessing most everyone in this thread plays on Huge, it's worth noting that your research costs have been set at 150% by your mapsize. I don't know how that stacks with the 150% due to "epic" gamespeed - perhaps it is additive, and the combination yields double research costs, or perhaps multiplicitive, yielding 225% research costs. Regardless something to take into account.

I'm working on a mod right now that modifies gamespeed, but to accomplish the goals set forth here it actually more drastically modifies TechInfos. I've gone through and assigned a new cost to every tech in the game, based on what I call their "tier." In the tech tree, you see that techs are in columns. Each new column is a new "tier," and has a smoothly increased cost. The first tier is a mere 102% of normal. The last tier is 1200% normal. Each tier in between bumps the percentage increased by 61%. I haven't tested it, and I suspect it'll need a LOT of tweaking, but I'm hoping that it will smoothly counteract the game's innate acceleration to yield a well-distributed and significantly elongated amount of time in each age.

I also have a question, only loosely related to this thread. If I could search the forums, I probably wouldn't be posting this here, but I don't see an answer to my question in the first few pages of this forum, so I'm hoping someone here will know: does anyone know where Civ keeps the data on what culture values each city must have in order to expand? I'd like to tweak that a bit too, because I want to slow down culture expansion - over three to four times as many turns, culture is going to get ridiculous - but I don't want to break each cities' early game. I plan to set the iCulturePercent to 300-400, and then take the first two tiers down significantly to allow cities to expand and access more area, but to then drastically slow down in their culture influence on the surrounding area. Any ideas?

- Doskei
 
Doskei said:
does anyone know where Civ keeps the data on what culture values each city must have in order to expand?

- Doskei

Try the Civ4CultureLevelInfo file.
 
"but I'm hoping that it will smoothly counteract the game's innate acceleration to yield a well-distributed and significantly elongated amount of time in each age."

yes, i think that is exactly what most of the posters in this thread would like
to see occur.
 
I find the following to work rather well. But I changed the cost of those techs that unlock the various religions. Seems silly to me that you discover Bhuddism and built temples when you don't even master agriculture.

<GameSpeedInfo>
<Type>GAMESPEED_HISTORICAL</Type>
<Description>Historical</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_HISTORICAL_HELP</Help>
<iGrowthPercent>250</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>200</iTrainPercent>
<iConstructPercent>80</iConstructPercent>
<iCreatePercent>300</iCreatePercent>
<iResearchPercent>300</iResearchPercent>
<iBuildPercent>200</iBuildPercent>
<iImprovementPercent>200</iImprovementPercent>
<iGreatPeoplePercent>300</iGreatPeoplePercent>
<iCulturePercent>300</iCulturePercent>
<iAnarchyPercent>150</iAnarchyPercent>
<iBarbPercent>200</iBarbPercent>
<iFeatureProductionPercent>300</iFeatureProductionPercent>
<iUnitDiscoverPercent>300</iUnitDiscoverPercent>
<iUnitHurryPercent>300</iUnitHurryPercent>
<iUnitTradePercent>300</iUnitTradePercent>
<iUnitGreatWorkPercent>100</iUnitGreatWorkPercent>
<iGoldenAgePercent>150</iGoldenAgePercent>
<iHurryPercent>45</iHurryPercent>
<iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>300</iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>
<iInflationPercent>15</iInflationPercent>
<iInflationOffset>-300</iInflationOffset>
<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>300</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>8</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>5</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>3</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>120</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>2</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>90</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>


Notice the way the historical eras are organized:

3000 years of ancient history - 300 turns of 10 years - should leave plenty of time to discover all the basic techs;

1600 years of classical timeline - 200 turns of 8 years each. (this brings us to 600AD - when Byzantium was at its peak);

900 years of medieval timeline - 180 turns of 5 years each (and it brings us to 1500AD - the period when the Renaissance was in full swing);

350 years of Renaissance era - 120 turns of 3 years each that brings us to 1860AD - about the time when Europe started industrializing at full speed;

100 years for the modern era - 50 turns of 2 years each - which brings us to 1960AD when science fiction started to become reality ;)

finally 90 years for the future era - 90 turns of 1 year each - to the end game.

Now if only someone could let me know how to start the dam game in 6000 or even 8000 BC...



G.
 
You know, Rabbit_Alex's post got me to thinking....

What if you flattened the years/turn and the beakers/tech? Made them both approximately constant regardless of era. You'd certainly have plenty of time to play around with your epic chariot wars while your piddly little cities tried to amass the research necessary for the next tech! Things would naturally speed up as your civilization developed -- perfectly realistic.

You'd need to tweak some things, of course. Great leaders in the early ages would have a huge effect since techs are so expensive (although that might be an interesting aspect to gameplay). And you'd have to bump the price of settlers way up to prevent effective ICS, but I kind of like that too -- founding a new city *should* be a big deal, at least early on. And of course, you'd better really enjoy the early game, 'cuz you're gonna get a lot of it!

Just a wild idea....
 
ejdacanay said:
hmm, which is the code for a slower sped tehn epic
Just to clarify - you're wanting to know what the modifiers are for the other map sizes, right? Assuming so, they are:
Duel: 100
Tiny: 110
Small: 120
Standard: 130
Large: 140
Huge: 150

beorhtwulf said:
What if you flattened the years/turn and the beakers/tech? Made them both approximately constant regardless of era. You'd certainly have plenty of time to play around with your epic chariot wars while your piddly little cities tried to amass the research necessary for the next tech! Things would naturally speed up as your civilization developed -- perfectly realistic.
OK, first - "flattening" years/turn would have no effect on gameplay, other than being an interesting way to note how far from accurate your game has become. It has no effect on how long you stay in a given age - you could reach modern in 1000BC if you had enough research to get the necessary tech by then.

Second, "flattening" beakers/tech would exacerbate the problem we are trying to solve. If you made all techs require the same number of beakers then your starting techs would be exponentially more difficult to come by than modern ones. Either the early game would be mostly unchanged and your lategame would be even faster (no tech would ever take more than the minimum number of turns, even with research at 10%), or your lategame would be normal but your early game would be so slow as to be ridiculous (on the scale of maybe 500 turns/tech).

The thing is, starting techs in this game range from about 40 beakers to about 120 beakers. The most advanced techs in the game cost five to six thousand. This whole thread exists to correct the problem that you can get those five-six thousand much faster lategame than you can get the 40-120 earlygame, and they're already that far apart. What we need to do is make those values further apart rather than closer together.

So yes, while that is "perfectly realistic" it isn't fun. The game's already realistic, and everyone here dislikes that aspect of the realism, so we're trying to "break" it to make it more fun.
 
This is something I've been doing since Civ 2, slowing tech speed to produce what I call "period gaming". That is, the game advances to certain periods (eras in Civ 4, I guess) and then essentially stagnates long enough for you to fight a war or three using the units specific to that period. In Civ 2 and 3 it proved impossible to do this after the musketman period, since the hard-coded tech advancement set an upper limit to the number of turns it took to get a new technology, meaning that the game would accelerate to unacceptable levels beyond this point. And that's when I got bored with the 'tech race' and quit, and put Civ into a drawer someplace while I moved on to something more interesting. In fact, I got so annoyed that the freakin' problem *still* hadn't been fixed Civ 3 (despite numerous complaints from a sizable minority of gamers) that I put off buying Civ 4 until I saw this thread and read through it to make sure I could actually slow the *whole* game down, and not just part of it.

In any event, it's good to see y'all already hard at work on the problem. I've decided to chip in with the testing by slowing the tech in my game waaaay down - as in, setting the tech advancement percentage to 1000 or 2000 to see what happens. Can't get the years right at these numbers but that isn't a concern for me - I don't really care if I'm just discovering computers in the year 2500. So long as the concept of "period gaming" is maintained at each and every era it doesn't matter what the little date number reads.

Although I don't see why folks are concerned with increasing the build times of city improvements. Yes, leaving them alone will muck with your tech advancement speeds somewhat, but you can easily counter this just by increasing the tech research percentage until you get a rate you happen to like. If 300% is too fast because your improvements counter the effect somewhat, then just raise it to 400% and adjust the years/turn accordingly. Your cities won't have anything to build for long stretches (except military units), but so what? That also happened to be true for the vast majority of human history. And when you do get new tech and new improvements, each advancement will be a Really Big Deal(TM), rather than just another blip on the screen and another thing to add to the build queue. That's what I did with the previous Civs and I thought it made the game much more enjoyable (at least until the hard-coded speed increase surpassed my mods ability to slow things down).

I am going to slow down the builds somewhat, but only because I believe they're too fast at their standard rates. I'm also going to slow cultural advancement down as well, probably to the same level as tech advancement so that city cultural points pace themselves and don't become outrageous while I'm still mucking about with chariots. In a single player game that should result in culture advancing at the same pace as a normal game, only in glacial slo-mo from the players point of view.

The only unit I can think that really needs to be slowed down along with everything else is the settler. Easy enough to do, from the look of the files.

As for Great People, the whole concept looks to be game-breaking if left alone - and that seems to be the consensus of quite a few players on various forums. My preference would be just to get rid of them altogether, putting Civ 4 more in line with previous games. Either that or, if this crashes the game in some way, restrict them to the super-specialist role.

Finally, I'm going to mod the various combat units to get rid of the rock-paper-scissors approach that Firaxis took. First because it's ridiculous from the strategic I'm-the-bloody-god-Emperor view; I command *armies*, not ahistorical corps of pure archers/macemen/whatever. Second, because the groupings simply don't make a whole lot of sense any which way you slice it, in military terms. I'll be doing my best to replace them with a more 'Hearts of Iron' approach, e.g., generic infantry, generic cavalry, armor, etc., all of which improve accordingly with each relevent advancement. As well as getting rid of the current (and in my view, nonsensical) way siege engines/artillery are used. If only they'd gone the same road as SMAC here....

Look forward to reading what the rest of you are doing. After I finish my first modded-up-the-wazoo game I'll post the results. Although if I do this correctly it'll probably be a month or so before I'm finished. :-)

Max
 
I have removed the ability for great people to discover techs from my games and I've played 2 so far, the difference isn't that noticable, however I still welcome the change.

one other change I've made to my game is I've moved the Cannon unit to gunpowder.

I mean... I shouldnt need steel to make cannons, and cannons shouldn't really come AFTER the Frigates since... frigates had cannons on them.

Also, if you learn steel, it immdediately gives you access to artillery. So basically you play the entire game with catapults - then upgrade to artillery.

There's no cannon time, so I changed that, and cannons are fun.

hmm... I'm still throwing the different values of speed around and I've started manually editing tech costs. I've currently made the beginning ones that each nations starts with two of at half cost. So in the first 50 turns you can have the basic worker abilities so your workers aren't standing around with nothing to do half the time.

uh... oh. I tested out 'ocean-only-oil' and it was pretty fun. next time I'll need to up the frequency of Oil because on a Large map there were only four sources of oil, two of which controlled by one nation. I was lucky enough to have my capital have oil in the sea next to it, a pleasent surprise when I reached that era.

Biggest flaw with Ocean-Only-Oil however is that it doesn't register to the AI. how much more important the resource has become. So in usual games they only defend their sea squares with a few ships - with OOO, they did the same thing, so I had the ability to disable them quite easily (but for the sake of balance I let them all have their oil.)

I'm going to test that idea a bit more though.
 
grallon said:
Now if only someone could let me know how to start the dam game in 6000 or even 8000 BC...
GlobalDefines.xml (right in the Assets\Xml folder, not even any subfolder):
<Define>
<DefineName>START_YEAR</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>-4000</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
 
Another angle to look at would be to reduce the effect of buildings/wonders/etc. on research. That is one reason why research is so fast later on in the game, because you have libraries in every city, scientists, universities, etc.
And by reducing the effect of those items you would not be slowing down the early research (which is slow enough already) because you don't have all that stuff in the beginning anyway.

It would also make the game a little closer in that the larger civs would not have as much of an advantage over the smaller ones.

Another thing to think of is increasing maintenance costs so that you are forced to lower your science percentage later in the game.


one other change I've made to my game is I've moved the Cannon unit to gunpowder.

I agree with that. Was that not the way it was in civ 1?
 
I have noted that the granary does not save 50% of the food when i playmy new epic game. I have the values of 300 in most of the slots and others are exactly proportional to the 300 speed. The granary appears to save only 15 food.

Is there a way to change that value so it saves half. Otherwise the granary is relatively useless.

edit: OK now this is strange I finished another population in my city and the granary worked normally. Could this have something to do with the granary being finished only one turn before the population went up?
 
Has anyone tested the "Era" file modification? It seems like a simpler way to address various stages of the game. I'm at work, but one easy way to quickly test would be to start a game in a later era with and then without the modification and see if research times change...assuming your science output is similar.
 
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