[modmodmod] SOI expanded

[Doufny]

ok after 4hours playing SOI exp i can tell it too xD

 

[AtlantaMarty]

I have been busy for months, and there were some illnesses in my family.

Hopefully I can get back to work on this over the summer.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Is the expansion working currently?
When I am trying to load the mod it says "GFC Error: Failed to initialize the primary control theme."

 

[Nizou]

So, I have some things to say (if anyone is still working on this mod ...) :
- first, I tested the mod with the non-broken and most recent version of this mod (SoIX.rar of 2014-08-24), I will test the "broken" version after (the SoIxBroke.rar of 2016-05-20)
Why the v0.1 of June has never been released ?
- also, in the idea, for the Bulgarians, you could use Tsar Simeon's leaderhead, available in RFCE, and there's enough place to put them some tiles above Adrianoupolis and Konstantinoupolis, on the coast, the greek name of the city is Rusokastron ; Bulgarian core may be this city + Adrianoupolis + Plovdivy ?
- for the Venetians, in addition of what has been said, look at this map : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Repubblica_di_Venezia.png -> delete Arta and put Buthroto (I talk also about it in the post below) 1 tile SE in order to put Kephalonia (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalonia#History ) on the island

Spoiler :

> make Myrina, Rusokastron & Naxos (more below) Byzantine cties at the beginning of the game, because with the Venetian map, I have an idea for Venetian territory :
> core : Cyprus, Crete, Naxos, Kephalonia
> border : Myrina, Rhodos, Kallipolis, Morea, Athens, Scutari, Dyrrachion
Not all the regions, but only a few cases around these cities, according to the Venetian territory
- I found some missing city names :
> Sidi Rafaa - Balagrae (read this because I'm not sure : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beida,_Libya#History and see on the map), or Apollonia / Sozusa / Susa -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonia,_Cyrenaica
> Al-Qahira - Memphis
> Al-Minya - Oxyrhynchos / Oxyrrhynchoupolis (orthograph may be revised)
> Denizli - Laodikeia
for Byzantins (that's what I found, but you can also find other suggestions & compare with the map I've found)
I'll continue my Byzantine game even if I won it, in order to find other missing names
> a city 4-5 tiles on the right of Otrar with Timurids (no name), there's a lot of choices for the Timurid translation, see this map : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samanid_Empire#/media/File:Transoxiana_8th_century.svg and this article :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayram_(city)
- finally, I saw an invasion of Muhammad Shaybani when I played Timur, but as barbarian (because Khwarezmid shahdom collapsed a few turns after I spawned), it's curious that i was too stable for Shaybanid rebearing, but there was anyway a barbarian invasion ̂ ̂

 

[Nizou]

So, in order to complete Byzantine city names, I've found this enormous picture, it might help us :
https://thehistoryofbyzantium.files...es-commons-wikimedia-orgwikiusercplakidas.png
Note : this is in English adapted from Latin, obviously we'll have to find equivalents in Byzantine Greek ̂ ̂

If you explain me how to define new city translations (with what I've found and what I'll find), I can help you, because of the simplicity, I think I can work on .py or .xml files (Notepad++ compatibility lol)

 

[Nizou]

So, captures of cities on which I doubt of the city names (those with minimum culture borders were captured with WB for this message only hehe) :

Spoiler :

Sidi Rafaa -> I've talked about it above, see also that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa,_Libya ; Tomprouk -> I don't find this translation, only Antipyrgos for Antic Greek (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobruk#History ) ; Hesperides -> seems good

Spoiler :

Denizli -> I've talked about it above ; I've found a city without name, might be Naxos or Chora (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxos_(city) & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxos )

Spoiler :

Louxor has choice for translation, might be Thebai or Thivai (may seem too Modern Greek), see the map and that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thebes,_Egypt#Graeco-Roman_Period , and maybe translation for further cities (of Makuria / Mamluks)

Spoiler :

Corum -> maybe Euchaneia with this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Çorum or Taouion, a nearby city (from Tavium on the map, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavium & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yozgat )

Spoiler :

Acaba has a name in the map above (Aelana), see further there : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqaba#Medieval_period ; I don't know for Bir ; Kerak -> seems good, compare with that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Karak ; Raithu -> seems correct, compare with this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Tor,_Egypt ; I've already talked above about Al-Qahira & Al-Minya ; is there an interest to translate in Greek cities of Arabian Peninsule (Tabuk & beyond) ? Gaza seems too southern (compare with Raphia on the map or here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah )

Spoiler :

Mosul, Samarra & beyond (Persia) : should we translate these cities names, and if yes, what could we choose ? There's some choice on the map, maybe research in addition ? Others cities -> seem correct

Spoiler :

Seems that Tpilisi & Kars have not any other possible translation in Greek
Sukhumi -> could be named Dioscurias [Ancient] or Sebastopolis, according to this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhumi#History and the map

Spoiler :

Bouthroto -> maybe Anchiasmos / Saranta (with this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarandë#Ancient ), or Buthroton
Myrina -> seems good translation (on Wikipedia, no another name suggested)

Limassol -> seems quite correct, but compare with this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#History ; Famagusta -> seems also correct

So, in addition of the map in the post above, I've found also this : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Justinian555AD.png maybe we could do research on these cities to match them with medieval cities ?
Maybe historical Byzantine zone can be enlarged (if it doesn't make Byzantins OP), if you do some research on Byzantine empire ?

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Where is the link for the non broken version of this? When I tried playing I couldn't get it to play.
I got the impression from other posts that SOI expanded had a lot of issues.
No one is working on it, so if you fancied finishing it off that would be great. I gather SOI is one of the more user friendly mods to edit (unlike RFC GW which I work on).
If you are planning to edit the city maps you might be best using google spreadsheets or Microsoft excell.

 

[Nizou]

See the SoIX.rar of 2014, which is working (it's simple : if it's named "Broke(n)" it can't work), the last version of 2016 is totally broken effectively ̂ ̂ (when I repaired the GFC error and I ran the mod, no desc for each civ when choosing the scenario and in the game there's no interface)
I really would "finish" the mod (is that possible ?), but I'm only a beginner in Civ4 modding, so I'll have to learn a lot o things ^^
How can I use Excel in order to edit city names ?
EDIT : I started to use LibreOffice with the spreadsheet map of edead (here : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/technical-documentation.428869/ ), but it takes me a lot of time, is there a way to put the SoIX maps into spreadsheet fastely ? It could also reduce the mistake risks ^^

 

[Edmund Ironside]

It is a shame that 0.1 was never released. It means a lot of work has probably gone to waste. I think it should be possible to finish the mod, the question is how much is left to do!?

Civ modding gets easier the more you do it.

I assume you are working on the CityNameManager.py. I just copy the data into google sheets via notepad and have a pre-prepared grid which I use. See below:

 

[Nizou]

Okay, so I beginned this work, I have just to define until where I want to stop Greek translation (only core and historical area for Byzantins, or beyond ?), and after I'll do the same for others dictionnaries. Also, should I split Arabian & Persian in two distinct dictionaries ?
After this work, in the future I want some things to improve/add (just in my mind, I'll take my time) :
- add some civilizations (whose we talked about in this thread, like Kara Koyunlu, Bulgarians, Venetians, Saffarids ...), but I know nothing about adding them. Link to an help thread ?
- work on newly-playable civilizations (Zngids, Portugueses, Buyids and I think that's all) with unique units, building, UHV's ; some advice ?
- I'm searching for anything bug, so I invite you to notify them so that we'll deal them with

 

[Edmund Ironside]

I wouldn't make splitting the Arabian & Persian into two dictionaries a priority.

Here is a guide to adding civilizations (it was designed for Dawn of Civilization, but Sword of Islam is pretty similar so should work).
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/guide-adding-a-civilization-to-doc-updated.561840/

For the Portuguese you can probably borrow unique units, buildings, power, etc, from either Dawn of Civlization or RFC Europe.

Remember to enable python exceptions if you edit in python so you can catch any mistakes early.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-do-i-enable-debugging-and-check-the-logs.410248/

Also when working in World Builder, it is case sensitive so don't use lowercase if it was originally written in capitals.

If you do make changes to SOI expanded make sure you upload it so there is not another lost version like v0.1!

 

[cmakk1012]

add some civilizations (whose we talked about in this thread, like Kara Koyunlu, Bulgarians, Venetians, Saffarids ...), but I know nothing about adding them. Link to an help thread ?

A few suggestions on that front:

—Don’t worry about the Bulgarians IMO. The map hasn’t been extended north, so adding them as a civ would have them only own a small portion of their territory. Just spawn more Bulgarian barbs instead.

—The Venetians can absolutely be added, but they’ll probably need spawned-in boats and troops to simulate their naval power.

—There could very well be a new independent Crusader nation spawned in Greece after 1204–Achaea could work, or possibly Athens. Either way, Byzantium needs to collapse completely in 1204 and then respawn around the 1260s owning a much smaller core.

—In the mid-1300s there should be some significant Serbian barbarians invading Greece, if not a whole new Serbian civ.

 

[Nizou]

Okay, thanks for all this ^^
I'll check these links when I'll have finished the dictionnaries & the maps.
What are you meaning with "case sensitive" in WB ? City names ?
And for uploading future changes, should I use SourceForge (and the actual page or a new project), or Drive (which is easier for me) ?

Byzantium shouldn't collapse totally, but maybe switch as Empire of Nicaea between 1204 (4th Crusade) and renaming in 1261 as Byzantins (Constantinople recapture) ? The Venetians could switch their conquered cities to Latin Empire (maybe with another name ; UHV ?) ; rework the 4th Crusade and add the others (2th, 3th) to add some spice to the game
Serbia was only important as Bulgaria, so if there' no Bulgaria, I don't think there should be Serbia
For Byzantium split, should we add the 3 remaining territories as civilizations (Achaea, Epirus, Trebizond)

Finally, we have to rework the Greece and Lybia extension, because it's not really balanced (Greece should have more hills & mountains, Lybia should have more yellow plains and less green plains, and I would revise the cities emplacement : I already said for Aegean islands & Epirus, maybe add Nicaea, add a city in Lybia)

So, when I'll finish dictionnaries & maps, I'll try a new map and I'll post it here, and at the "end" try to work on new civs and barbarians invasions (if you want to work also, I'll not decline ^^)

 

[cmakk1012]

Byzantium shouldn't collapse totally, but maybe switch as Empire of Nicaea between 1204 (4th Crusade) and renaming in 1261 as Byzantins (Constantinople recapture) ? The Venetians could switch their conquered cities to Latin Empire (maybe with another name ; UHV ?) ; rework the 4th Crusade and add the others (2th, 3th) to add some spice to the game
Serbia was only important as Bulgaria, so if there' no Bulgaria, I don't think there should be Serbia
For Byzantium split, should we add the 3 remaining territories as civilizations (Achaea, Epirus, Trebizond)

Ok, maybe it would be better for Byzantium to not collapse totally but they do need to lose Constantinople, at least for a while. That never happens in the normal mod.

That’s fair about Serbia—just make them major barbarians too, then.

I don’t think it’s becessary to add all three successor nations as full civs, they wouldn’t be large/strong enough. Only one at most—maybe Epirus over Achaea? And they’d be competing with Venice/Latin Empire in Greece.

 

[Nizou]

Yup, Constantinople has to be the capital of the Latin Empire.
At 1214, Achaea was vassalized by Latin Empire, so that's a possibility of post-Byzantium Occident :
- Epirus could be independant (Buthroton & Ochrida)
- Kephalonia, Crete, Rhodes, Myrina goes to Venice
- Latin Empire gets Achaea, duchy of Athens, Kingdom of Thessalonica, Adrianople, Constantinople, Tinos, Thera
- Empire of Trebizond gets Sinop, Sampsunta & Trebizond, or all these cities become independant, as Epirus
- Empire of Nicaea (or Neo-Byzantium) keep having Smyrna, Nicaea & Dorylaion (maybe add a 4th city at beginning of the game, like Philadelphia or Denizli)

PS : other possibility is a fusion of Empire of Nicaea, Epirus & Trebizond

 

[Nizou]

In the possibility of adding Bulgaria & Serbia, check the Serbian Empire and the First & Second Bulgarian Empire on Wikipedia, it could be interesting, if not improved Barbarian invasions are a good choice

 

[Edmund Ironside]

What are you meaning with "case sensitive" in WB ? City names ?

Yeah, its probably pretty obvious, but the first time I edited World Builder I was not careful enough when editing things like cities and units to make sure they remained all in capitals, and it caused major problems! As seen below, if it is all in capitals, it has to stay that way. Again it was probably obvious, but it wasn't to me at the time!

And for uploading future changes, should I use SourceForge (and the actual page or a new project), or Drive (which is easier for me) ?

I would suggest using Sourceforge and creating a new project. You could call it "SOIEX Reborn" or something similar.

 

[Nizou]

Another quesion, where is the file you were showing, because I think a rework of the extension of the map could be useful (replace Aegean islands, modify Byzantine cities and Lybian cities, make Greece with more pikes, add some foundable cities locations and make Lybia more interesting : remove "green" plains, but add more "yellow" plains) ^^

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Another quesion, where is the file you were showing, because I think a rework of the extension of the map could be useful (replace Aegean islands, modify Byzantine cities and Lybian cities, make Greece with more pikes, add some foundable cities locations and make Lybia more interesting : remove "green" plains, but add more "yellow" plains) ^^

The Sword of Islam > Private Maps > Middle East 750 CE

 

[Nizou]

Ok thanks, I didn't know that the map file could be opened with a text editor ^^
I have a lot of work, between the dicitionnaries who takes me a lot of time and ths enormous file to deal with ^^