Mods : is less actually better?

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Having produced a quite detailed mod recently (Anno Domini ), I was thinking that it's actually been overdone in a sense. There were about 25-30 advances in each era, quite a number of different units to choose from and buildings where the effects were repeated - sometimes with the older version becoming obsolete around the same time as the new one was able to be built. In gameplay, many of the units aren't used - though there is still the choice.

In hindsight, would it have been better to have done the mod with about 15-20 advances per era, fewer choices of units and fewer buildings, avoiding the doubling-up? Is less actually better?

If I do end up doing a revamp, would you prefer to use up the buildings limit by having more specific tech trees for each civilization or do you prefer to keep the buildings generic? Do you like it kept simple for the units or do you prefer to have lots of choice?

 

[Madeira]

Good point, lots of stuff is not necessarily better, it tends to make things more complicated, what do we build now, what unit to use, etc.. In my opinion the best choice is to make an average number of units etc, but have most of them be unique to each civ or small groups, adding flavour. Not so true with the tech tree, i prefer big ones to make the game longer, witch some unique techs to give bonuses to certain civs. Lots of techs (with usefull stuff in them, like units or buildings) with fast to average research times are better than few techs with long research times, makes a game more interesting.
Having some buildings be prerequisites for others is a good idea, this will limit the choices a new city has, so its good to have a good number of buildings to build, as long as they dont all show up on the build list
As for units, I have an example, I've added the concept of unit classes in my mod, each class has a base number of hitpoints and some rules specific to it, for land units I have Support Infantry (archers), Militia Infantry (spearmen), Skirmishers (javelin throwers), Line Infantry (heavy spearmen, swordsmen...), Assault Infantry (axemen), Light and Heavy Cavalry, Various types of Chariots and some others. A good idea is each civ having one unit representing as many of these classes as possible, noting the diferences between classes, assault infantry are usually stronger at attack but weaker at defense and less hitpoints then line infantry for instances.

 

[Yoda Power]

To be totally honest, I think your mod is a bit overdone. It's a cool mod, no discussion, but I think that you sacrificed some quality for more quantity.

I'd rather like a clean looking mod, with only top quality graphics and usefull stuff. When I play I like to try it all out, but I often get disappointed if some of the things never become usefull for me in any of my games.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, but you asked.

 

[JSnider]

As to the other view .. I like to have something happening all the time, makes the game much more interesting for me. Thus I am in the more techs, units, and buildings camp. This is one reason i keep going back to RaR and tweaking it ... all that stuff bumps up my interest in the game. So the more the merrier ... just my view.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I think it really depends on how you want your mod to feel. Some mods work really well with only small amounts of stuff, and vice versa. I generally like everything to be useful, though.

I prefer more flavoring myself, with more specific tech trees, as is evidenced by most of my projects, but ultimately, it depends on how you wish your mod to play

Incidentally, I fear I may be another guy who adds too much- in my Greek scenario, for example, I find it hard fleshing out the tech tree with enough improvements and units... Still, it's how I like it

 

[Blue Monkey]

Playing AD I found that some key techs, such as governments, had too many intervening techs, some of which had no benefits like new resources or units. On the other hand, having part of the tech tree unique to culture groups is nice. I'd buddy up to the other Indians, get a jumpstart on research by trading with them, roll over some "foreign barbarians", and end up dominant within the culture group. I like mods with as much flavor as possible. I probably predominantly play mods like TAM & AD because I enjoy the pace of cultural development provided by concentrating on one historical era.

 

[T.A JONES]

I like lots of flavour to but I can't see/tell whats the point or differnce of a new mod thats just another collection of a varietyof icons and animations with names attached and no details of historical refrencethat bind Like civ3 default has a complete pedia

IM intrested in that sort of finished product ONTOP of all the great bonus stuff and fixed editer adjustments(If its a expanded mod then more filled out pedia all the better xpeirence for the player)

I like to see pedia entries that go into depth over the various differnces in culture flaves and explain buildings and wonders and units in some details. Sheddin a light of info on any the specifis event that comes into focus like say a AI v AI battle , you read up on whos using what.

A mod with full pedia is a gem beacuse its like a gripping novel that comes at you through techs, resources, units, buildings wonders and civs.

WIth the criteria for cuttin edge becoming harder I think in depth pedia will be an art that complements all the cool new graphics and variey layed out. Ontop add some fresh new fittin music and t hats what will seprates from the rest IMO

IM lovin the new Anno. I just started playin and think its rich, only thing is 1 in 10 of the units could use a bit more explaining. (im coming off FAR horizons and Balancer and MEM and Rood where they cover that nicly) sadly I must put the civ thing away for a while while I go to other commitments . crap

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

I think it really depends on how you want your mod to feel. Some mods work really well with only small amounts of stuff, and vice versa. I generally like everything to be useful, though.

I prefer more flavoring myself, with more specific tech trees, as is evidenced by most of my projects, but ultimately, it depends on how you wish your mod to play

Quoted for truth.

El Justo's scenarios and mods seem to have a lot in them, but they don't seem overloaded or anything like that. I think it does depend a lot on how you want it to feel. Personally, I prefer it as is.

 

[El Justo]

i agree w/ Tank_Guy and Virote i subscribe to the "raison d'être" school of thought were almost every single component of a mod needs to have a use. so if this means that there is layer after layer and everything "lines up" then that's great. but otoh, if the layers are light or even singular, that's ok too so long as the utility of each component is assessed.

cramming stuff in there just for fluff or any other reason is bad imo. it detracts from gameplay and can cause imbalances if there's substantial cramming.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for the responses. In AD, every tech has a reason for being there and allows at least either a unit, a building or worker action. I would concede that there is some fluff in there and this makes it take too long to play in my opinion.

 

[timerover51]

Is less better? Yes, when you are talking massive game mods. I much prefer a scenario map that uses what the game already has, to a massive mod that consumes large amounts of space on my hard drive. So far, I have yet to successfully get any of the large mods to run, and a couple of the large scenarios maps are taking forever to play one turn.

 

[BadKharma]

Rob I think you will find answers in both directions on that question. I think it depends more upon how well a mod / scenario captures the player and immerses them in the creators vision.

 

[Steph]

Well, less presents a great advantage: you could actually finish the damned mod!

 

[Stormrage]

I know I am probably already annoying with this, but I have to mention the WH mod.

When I play it I use every unit available to a each civ, not because of the great gfx or cos I like the WH fluff or anything, but because those units are usefull. Except I don`t use much artillery, but I don`t do that in any civ-mod, cos I feel bad for the AI. The Artificial Idiot also uses all kinds of WH units, but just like me, he avoids artillery I think the most units a single civ has is around 40, not sure.

Also, every building is useful, so are most of the techs, etc. So perhaps you should study it, if you haven`t already.

As for the flavour part of the same units, one can never have enough. Unless one has 1 per civ

 

[Ozymandias]

Well, less presents a great advantage: you could actually finish the damned mod!

Tell me about it ...

 

[Steph]

I think the idea, and I'll probably rework a bit my mod is to accept that some civs have less than others.

For instance, with all Sandris's new units, I could make a detailed UK, France and Russia, they would provide a lot of flavour, but I can't do the same with let say China. How many chinese gunpowder units do we have?

So instead of trying to give many not so good units to China, just accept it will have some useless techs...

Or make a specific tech tree for China...

And Rob, about your question, I hope you don't want to get rid of Plotinus. He's doing a good job, and I'm not sure less mods is actually better

But there could be something great: A reorganization of the dowloads, with proper ini, etc., so we don't need to download everything with every mod.

I have an idea for my game by the way.

Imagine, Modder A is making a scenario using a British rifleman, and a French rifleman (let say Napoleonic scenario).

Another Modder is making a scenario using the same British rifleman, but not the French rifleman, and a American rifleman (war of 1812)

With the current method, each scenario would include the British rifleman.

Now, imagine that you could download the napoleonic scenario, a small file...

When you start it, the game tells you "graphics resource are missing, do you want to download it?"... You answer yes, and the program automatically downloads the British and French rifleman.

Later, you want to play the other War of 1812 scenario... Download, start... Programs tell you "a file is missing", and downloads only the American rifleman as the British rifleman is already downloaded...

BTW, a question, that could be worth its own thread...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Well, less presents a great advantage: you could actually finish the damned mod!

I did !! I answered your question (in the post above this one) in it's own thread.

I would be interested in what other modders think of the "is less more" question.

 

[Plotinus]

I have to be boring and say I agree with those who say it depends on the mod. Personally I like having lots of techs, at least, because it gives me a feeling of progression. I'd rather spend ten turns researching tech A and another ten researching tech B - even if tech A gives nothing other than the ability to research B - than spend twenty turns researching a single tech. But I do think that a good mod is about atmosphere and creating a good story, and how you do that will vary considerably from mod to mod. Personally I do really like the approach of Anno Domini, which is about having lots of content, although none of it pointless. I like having civ-specific or culture-specific stuff, including techs, buildings, and units. I didn't like Double Your Pleasure with its very cluttered feel.

[Steph] Your idea is good, but I think it would work only for fairly dedicated downloaders who understand the system. It would be pretty offputting for casual visitors who breeze by, like the look of a particular mod, and want to download just that without having to familiarise themselves with the complexities of this website.

 

[Steph]

[Steph] Your idea is good, but I think it would work only for fairly dedicated downloaders who understand the system. It would be pretty offputting for casual visitors who breeze by, like the look of a particular mod, and want to download just that without having to familiarise themselves with the complexities of this website.

The idea is to remove complexity. The download would be automatic.

 

[Sandris]

Steph, more new Russian and Britsih units are coming ... ... and don`t forget Gen.Rommel`s Germans.