Modscenario: Playable Byzantines, 610AD.

[kochman]

If you control the Levant and the Persian Gulf and have Astronomy, you'll have access to the silks.
It's definitely doable, but the 3 silks are obtained via unreliable means and not by the Silk Road, which isn't very historical. (I prebuilt a fort in the Philippines, got 1 from Japan and conquered Korea )

I guess this is what I am getting at...
In real life, silk came from different routes. The Byzantines obviously had access to much silk, but it wasn't via China... it was via the other nations that continued to trade it.
In Civ, you have to have a direct route... and like your example, it has nothing to do with history... and when we are talking about Historical Victories, shouldn't it have something to do with history?

I guess I should come up with an alternative UHV condition then, as a suggestion.
Off the top of my head, perhaps a reconquest of their lands would be appropriate, like Italy, Carthage...

 

[TDK]

The Silk condition was chosen because it is hard and somewhat unusual, and it forces the Byzantines to deal with the Turks and Arabs, which is what they did a lot of the time historically.

I did consider changing the condition to control 5 Wine resources. Would that be better?

 

[kochman]

The Silk condition was chosen because it is hard and somewhat unusual, and it forces the Byzantines to deal with the Turks and Arabs, which is what they did a lot of the time historically.

I did consider changing the condition to control 5 Wine resources. Would that be better?

I had to deal with the Turks and the Arabs anyhow! I defeated both... as a point of pride.
5 wines... hmm... I would have to look at the map again and see the wine resources to be sure...
1 in Lebanon
1 in Athens
1 in S. Italy

Perhaps a certain number of marble would be better... there is marble in Rome (right?), and Carthage area...

I think just making them control a certain number of cities in certain areas (much like the Rome UHV) would be better though... Forcing them to look west as well as East. I wanted to conquer Rome the entire time, but I had my hands full in the east really!

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I still say the best solution is "Control the most number of luxury resources in year x"--the contenders being China, Khmer and a missing India.

 

[kochman]

I would have to look at the resources map really.
Competing against nations you may not even know... not too big a fan of that.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

That's not too much different from other UHVs: how does Mali know it's got the most gold in the world, or that the Dutch beat you to the Industrial age or that China beat you to writing? Wikipedia:

The other commodities that were traded, in Constantinople and elsewhere, were numerous: oil, wine, salt fish, meat, vegetables, other alimentary products, salt, timber and wax. Ceramics, linen, and wooden cloth were also items of trade. Luxury items, such as silks, perfumes and spices were also important. Trade in slaves is attested, both on behalf of the state, and, possibly, by private individuals. International trade was practiced not only in Constantinople, which was until the late twelfth century an important center of the eastern luxury trade, but also in other cities that functioned as centers of inter-regional and international trade, such as Thessaloniki and Trebizond.[

If we can only get some of the RFCE resources here.

 

[kochman]

The problem is, what you are talking about in history... vastness of resources traded in the empire, doesn't translate as well into the game. Just as 3 silks is odd, because trade routes, etc are different.

You have a point about techs being discovered, and the Mali with gold... The Mali's shouldn't really be gold, more likely something like have killed more people with slavery than any other civ... Brutal brutal civilization.
Regardless... you have a point.

I just think it's goals should be to take back it's land, really. That was something they always wanted, and often tried to do...
Controlling resources just was something that happened due to their geographical location... not something they specifically strove for...

 

[Stacmon]

This looks very interesting, I'm very happy that someone took the time to create it.

TDK: With the announcement by Rhye that he's just released the final version of his mod, I am curious whether you have any plans to update your map as well.

Thanks for all of the hard work.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

The UP is weak. They start out in 610, yet have something eerily similar to the mayan one.

 

[Hell Hawk]

Don't suppose we have any hope of this combined with the marathon mod? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354241

 

[wolfigor]

You have a point about techs being discovered, and the Mali with gold... The Mali's shouldn't really be gold, more likely something like have killed more people with slavery than any other civ... Brutal brutal civilization.
Regardless... you have a point.

Hmmm... this may create an interesting game.
You'll need to maximise growth and somehow happyness (to offset the angriness from whipping population)... without the Aztec altar it could be not easy.
It's also historically accurate and that's a plus

I just think it's goals should be to take back it's land, really. That was something they always wanted, and often tried to do...
Controlling resources just was something that happened due to their geographical location... not something they specifically strove for...

I agree that the Byzantine target was for long time to reconquer the lost western part of the empire.
Byzantine expansion during Justinian's reign:

By 600AD, date of the start of the mod, this extra territory was already lost.
In Byzantine history there have been some other occasions in which they did try to reconquer Italy (or parts of it), but they were mostly wars due to salvage some oversea territories (e.g. Sicily conquered by the Arabs 831-902) more than trying to re-establish the western empire.

 

[kochman]

True... though they held onto S. Italy until the Normans came, also.
Anyhow, my only point was the 3rd UHV condition needs to be changed.

Mechaerik had a good idea for it:

Also, I decided to change the "Control 3 Silk Resources" UHV, so I used Don't lose a city to the Turks/barbarians before 1500. Just wanting to know if this code will work, because I don't want to play to 1500 only to realize it doesn't work:

He included the code for it too.

Whatever it is, control 3 silk resources is a bad choice IMO.

The 3rd UHV is generally something NOT achieved... so, the door is wide open really.
Reconquest was my initial idea.
Not losing cities to Turks was Mechaericks, also good...
Perhaps just retaking Italy would be a good one, as that was more important.

When I played, there was a LOT of competition for Italy (Rome!), the French and Germans in particular. Even the Spanish threw in their lot. Now, if we add the Byzantines to the mix, it could get really interesting!

 

[wolfigor]

Don't loose any town to Turky is a bit complicated (you may lose town just by flipping when Turkey spawns).
However controlling Anatolia and near east in 1500 could be a nicely challenging task: it forces you to a fight to death against the Ottomans and overextend yourself to conquer the rest.

 

[kochman]

Good call.
Perhaps it could be, control Turkey and Italy in 1500? Then you have to send forces in two directions AND fight more than just the Turks. Makes it pretty challenging (in fact, I wasn't able to take Italy over myself the first time I played, but I was focusing on the Levant).

 

[Jusos2108]

Good call.
Perhaps it could be, control Turkey and Italy in 1500? Then you have to send forces in two directions AND fight more than just the Turks. Makes it pretty challenging (in fact, I wasn't able to take Italy over myself the first time I played, but I was focusing on the Levant).

Sounds good! Challenging is what makes RFC's UHVs interesting, unlike say RFCE's...

 

[mechaerik]

I don't think flips count as cities lost.

 

[wolfigor]

Good call.
Perhaps it could be, control Turkey and Italy in 1500? Then you have to send forces in two directions AND fight more than just the Turks. Makes it pretty challenging (in fact, I wasn't able to take Italy over myself the first time I played, but I was focusing on the Levant).

Yes, this IS challenging.
Not only forces you to send your armies in two directions but also get in bad relations with both Europeans and Turks.

I don't know how historically accurate it could be to have UHV to get Italy, but it would be great fun to play it.

 

[kochman]

Well, 2 UHVs are generally things that were achieved, and the 3rd is generally something that was desired, but not achieved.

Anyhow, I guess the creator of this great mod needs to chime in now...

 

[AOS9001]

I still think Byzantium should get Carthage's purple while Carthage gets... some other color. Just something people discussed earlier I thought should be brought up again, while people are posting in this thread.

 

[nody]

TDK, please update this mod to version 1.187 and please give them the stability map of the Romans to encourage 'reconquest'.

Would be weird though if Rome respawns...