seasnake
Conquistador
That picture is Hiawatha and Minehaha from Longfellow's Hiawatha. That is not the same as the Iroquois leader who united the five nations along with the Great Peacemaker.
Module - Hiawatha - Native America
- Thread starter mourndraken
- Start date
mourndraken
King
What ? I think that you can do better with Hiawatha.
Your guy looks like a buddy of mine who fell asleep during a party and got a haircut by us.
Your guy looks like a buddy of mine who fell asleep during a party and got a haircut by us.
seasnake
Conquistador
Ouch, MD. Ouch
Look, with Shaka's big old shoulders and arms it's impossible for me, a non blenderite, to turn this guy into a thin dude. I've used Sceneviewer to reduces his nose and brows, added some features and combined Saladin's animations with the original Ancestor. But I don't feel too fussed yet because 1) He's shaded, his animations work well, 2) he looks like his own LH, a MUST in my opinon, and 3) we don't know how Hiawatha looked at all, so I don't think it's implausible he's got a gut on him.
The other way looked like Shaka with feathers and new skin. Now he's a completely unique Leader.
However, I'll try and see what can be done with some other animations and sceneviewer to thin him. But no promises.
Look, with Shaka's big old shoulders and arms it's impossible for me, a non blenderite, to turn this guy into a thin dude. I've used Sceneviewer to reduces his nose and brows, added some features and combined Saladin's animations with the original Ancestor. But I don't feel too fussed yet because 1) He's shaded, his animations work well, 2) he looks like his own LH, a MUST in my opinon, and 3) we don't know how Hiawatha looked at all, so I don't think it's implausible he's got a gut on him.
The other way looked like Shaka with feathers and new skin. Now he's a completely unique Leader.
However, I'll try and see what can be done with some other animations and sceneviewer to thin him. But no promises.
seasnake
Conquistador
FINAL: Here's the final, slimmed him down, focused out, fixed the Mohawk and gave him a more interactive background (Waterfall still flows). I'll post him for download tonight, have class.
Hm, he still looks pretty fat to me, he certainly put on a lot more weight than he managed to lose again.
Original :
Fat :
Still fat
:Is it just me, or is his diet a failure ? What can I say, I still prefer the original one (weight wise).
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
cant you copy two skies and rotate one to have two animations going?
seasnake
Conquistador
To Mamba: I slimmed his belly and bulked his arms in Sceneviewer, and it helped overall. He's still got some belly on him, but I liked the look, he looked like a real person. Throw in the background and I was pretty pleased, so I put him in and now I have 3 custom civs:
Gran Colombia
Israel
Iroqouis
FOUR MORE TO GO!
Gran Colombia
Israel
Iroqouis
FOUR MORE TO GO!
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
- Messages
- 4,608
Perhaps you should give him some war paint, to hide those discolorations on his face and the one where neck connects to chest - (the later were in Mourndrakens texture already). Otherwise he looks a bit like a guy who needs to sue his plastic surgeon for a pile of money.
PW90
Warlord
Looks great so far 
Especially the thing with the waterfall in the background sounds very good.
I'm looking forward to downloading him
Especially the thing with the waterfall in the background sounds very good.
I'm looking forward to downloading him
Master Kodama
Nitpicker
I really like the fact that you're making this leaderhead, but I have to agree with others that I don't like his appearance, for the following reasons:
1) His mouth is pinched and it just looks really weird; he doesn't look particularly Iroquois with the features you've given him.
2) Relating to the above, I feel I should point out that even the first European settlers who came to the American Northeast remarked that the natives there were generally tall, strapping, handsome folk. This guy is pudgy and ugly.
It's a fact that the natives of the region generally had much better diets than the incoming Europeans and as a result were much healthier and in better shape. (I'm paraphrasing from 1491 by Charles C. Mann here, in case you're wondering at my sources.)
3) Once again following from my previous point, if people in the region tended to be well-featured and in good physical shape, then Hiawatha (or Ayenwatha) likely would have been so as well. Sure, he might have been the exception that proves the rule or whatever, but I find that highly unlikely. Since he was a charismatic individual who was renowned as an excellent orator, I can't really imagine him being funny-looking.
Honestly, I think the original look was more appropriate and looked more Iroquois than the new one. I'm sure there's some other way you could alter the base model to make him look less like Shaka and still allow him to look convincingly like the legendary Iroquois leader, which at this point I don't think he does. I didn't even realize that the original was based on Shaka when I first saw it, so you probably wouldn't have to go as far as you did.
But that's just my opinion.
Good job and keep it up.
1) His mouth is pinched and it just looks really weird; he doesn't look particularly Iroquois with the features you've given him.
2) Relating to the above, I feel I should point out that even the first European settlers who came to the American Northeast remarked that the natives there were generally tall, strapping, handsome folk. This guy is pudgy and ugly.
It's a fact that the natives of the region generally had much better diets than the incoming Europeans and as a result were much healthier and in better shape. (I'm paraphrasing from 1491 by Charles C. Mann here, in case you're wondering at my sources.)3) Once again following from my previous point, if people in the region tended to be well-featured and in good physical shape, then Hiawatha (or Ayenwatha) likely would have been so as well. Sure, he might have been the exception that proves the rule or whatever, but I find that highly unlikely. Since he was a charismatic individual who was renowned as an excellent orator, I can't really imagine him being funny-looking.
Honestly, I think the original look was more appropriate and looked more Iroquois than the new one. I'm sure there's some other way you could alter the base model to make him look less like Shaka and still allow him to look convincingly like the legendary Iroquois leader, which at this point I don't think he does. I didn't even realize that the original was based on Shaka when I first saw it, so you probably wouldn't have to go as far as you did.
But that's just my opinion.
Good job and keep it up.
seasnake
Conquistador
Hey, the world is full of pudgy people, and not every Native American was a paragon of beauty. As we don't know how he looked, I've opted for realistic and unique over flat reskin. The facts are very few other animations work realistically with Shaka's face and body, and unless someone with Blender savvy wants to start at it then I don't see what more there is to do at this point. By all means go ahead and change it to fit your idea of what he should look like.
Master Kodama
Nitpicker
(my emphasis)
I think you miss my point, which is that while it's a good leaderhead and certainly unique, I don't find it very realistic. I have trouble believing that the unifier of the Iroquois nations could have looked like this, since the leaderhead doesn't look very Iroquois to me, or particularly inspiring. I would never claim that all or even most Native Americans were "paragons of beauty" as you put it, I'm merely trying to point out that the natives in the northeast of what eventually became the US were frequently described as being tall, athletic, and having "noble" features by those who came in contact with them. Most of those things were a result of the good diet and exercise that came from their lifestyle and lead to a healthy appearance.
Which brings me to another thing I was trying to point out before: while the world is certainly full of pudgy people, the diet and lifestyle of the Iroquois would have made pudginess exceedingly rare in the time and place that Hiawatha lived, and so the fact that the leaderhead is pudgy actually diminishes the realism in my estimation.
Could Hiawatha have looked like this? Of course, anything is possible. For all we know, he might have been seven feet tall and had red hair and green eyes -- but I don't think it's very likely. I exaggerate for effect, of course, but I hope you see my point.
At any rate, I'd be gratified if you (or someone) would post a version like this but with the original features intact. I doubt I'm the only one who would appreciate an alternate version, since some others seemed to think his looks were a bit odd. Such an alternate version could prove very useful for scenarios, since the "uniqueness" of the newer version only becomes relevant in a game where you might be playing with Shaka and Hiawatha at the same time.
seasnake
Conquistador
I see your point. I'm trying to tweak it more, but it's difficult. We'll see how that plays out. Anyway, I'll post a clean copy eventually.
Master Kodama
Nitpicker
Does anyone have the newer version of this?
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
i did these for him but never heard from him again. by the way in the nif I'd add a stencil property to the feather right now in the blend it has a duplicate with flipped normals.
Edgecrusher
King
I have a version that I use for the Iroquois with a "mohawk" at home. I think I got it from Ekmek though in this thread.
I can upload it when I am home, (wont be till real late tonight).
I might not turn on my computer and just do it tomorrow.
I can upload it when I am home, (wont be till real late tonight).
I might not turn on my computer and just do it tomorrow.
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