Monarch Game (Ragnar)

[Sataa3a]

Hello!
I'm currently consistently winning Noble and Prince games, but seem to be having some difficulties with Monarch. One of my weaknesses I know is that I build too few workers, but in games in which I try to build 1.5 workers per city, I loose any sort of military presence and get overrun by either barbs or Alexander. (I think my diplo could use improvement, as well...)
Anyways, I'm hoping if I post a game here and play with small turnsets and all that, I can pick up some tips for improving. (Sorry if this is a bad idea in my case.)

Settings are normal except for no huts/events, map is Fractal, leader was Random. I got Ragnar. Here is the start:

Spoiler :

I think that is coast two tiles west of the settler. So do I move the scout there to check and see if seafood is isolated? If there is, I might want to settle on the coast. If not, do I SIP, still move to the coast to avoid an awkward one-tile-from-sea situation, or move away from the coast to increase the number of non-water tiles? But all that depends on the scout...

Okay, sorry for the ramble. Save is attached.

 

[Ormiga]

Move the scout to see whats on the coast. Even if there was a food resource there I would still move the settler 1E though. You already have 2 corn (one irrigated) and a floodplains. Even if there was a food resource on that coast I think it would be better to leave it for another city. Looks like you're going to have 3 coast tiles if you settle in place.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I think that is coast two tiles west of the settler. So do I move the scout there to check and see if seafood is isolated? If there is, I might want to settle on the coast. If not, do I SIP, still move to the coast to avoid an awkward one-tile-from-sea situation, or move away from the coast to increase the number of non-water tiles? But all that depends on the scout...

Okay, sorry for the ramble. Save is attached.

Settling on the coast would lose you 2 corns (by the river) or 1 corn (1 north). So you might rather want to settle 1 east or 1 south-east of your starting position: keeps the best food!

Checking for seafood with the scout is a sound move. Cities must be spaced with at least 2 tiles. Wasting a seafood resource wouldn't be very good (it wouldn't be game-ending either).

If there is seafood by the coast (not ocean), you can either:
- SIP and forego the Lighthouse;
- Waste two turns and settle 2 east, 1 south of your starting position.

SIP can't be too bad. Having 2 coastal tiles within your BFC hardly matters. What matters is that you have 2 corns!

 

[Quibblesome]

If there is sea food is it not better to settle the capital as a coastal? I'm thinking of the trade routes.
The 2nd city would then get at least 1 corn, if not both so it would become an excellent settler/worker pump => GP farm.

 

[Solyaris]

I would settle 1 SE, probably more river tiles/land tiles and more forests to chop

Spoiler :

This start screams for a horse-archer rush

 

[Shearscape]

I'd agree with the suggestion to settle 1SE.

 

[UnholyMudcrab]

I too agree with 1SE. You still get both corns, it looks like there's more river to improve down there, and anything's better than that nasty brown land up north.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Another vote for 1 SE. I played till 1000 BC and the map's going to be easy. Look forward to a curb-stomp, OP.

@ Quibblesome

It's generally best to have in-land starter cities as coastal starts, particularly fishing starts tend to be slower and lack production. On this start, it's not really worth burning a turn, burning a forest and losing riverside corn just to be on the coast for trade routes that won't come into play anytime soon.

 

[Ormiga]

1SE does look a lot better than 1E. Those tiles down there look like plains tiles though but they're riverside and having two corns will allow you to cottage those up.

I have a thing against settling into so much black though. It doesn't appear to be tundra or desert so it can't be worst than the non riverside plains tiles in the north. Since you have a scout though I would move it to that spot to see what's on those squares and, more importantly, get a glimpse of what could be on the squares adjacent to it that will make up the BFC. If you catch a glimpse of more then a few desert, coast, tundra, or mountain tiles, then settle 1E otherwise 1SE.

 

[lymond]

I would not necessarily rule out settling in place here. This start does not necessarily "scream" for you to move just because of 2 coastal tiles. SIP is still a great city and those coastal tiles will give some temp commerce boost early on as needed. Moving 1SE does not really open up coastal slots anyway if food is found - 3 tiles are still blocked from settling.

The scout move to the SW will be telling. If seafood is present in the "Ocean" (2 tiles out), especially if fish, then you may want to preserve a city spot there if only reachable by 1 of those 3 tiles. If it's just crab or clam on coast then it's really not worth preserving, and the SIP capital can still work that clam or crab later as a 4F3C tile fed with with WB from a coastal city later.

So unless you spy fish out there, which is one of the best food resources, I don't see losing a turn for really no significant visible gain to your city.

 

[Sataa3a]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I was not expecting so many. How exciting.

I moved the scout SW, revealing...

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I see no fish, just that coastal clam. There were many votes for settling SE, but also a few for SIP. SIP, to me, seems like an okay choice because, as lymond said, moving would involve the loss of a turn, and I don't think I'd gain that much? And I'd lose the early commerce boost coast tiles. Although there are definitely more riverside tiles down there, and one of them looks like it might be green.
I think I will SIP. This is only Monarch, so it can't be an absolutely terrible idea, I'd think. I'm also super-indecisive and really just need to make up my mind and do something because this is taking me too long. So.

Spoiler :

I lost a riverside grassland, indeed. And those two hills. Perhaps I should have gone with SE. Hopefully the coast will be helpful?
Also, worker first while teching agriculture is the best move here, yes? This really doesn't call for anything out of the ordinary.

Also, a question about spoilers: what should I spoiler in here? Should I spoiler stuff about this particular game, or is that not necessary because this is 'my' game?

 

[lymond]

It's your game so only thing that you really need to put in spoilers is pics, just as a convenience.

Can't mourn what you can't see. Your current spot is more than a fine start and still can be a decent Bureau cap if nothing better presents itself.

Ag>Mining>BW looks like a fine path here. Then we can decide from there. Maybe right to Pottery and Writing, or maybe pick up AH if no copper presents itself. I believe someone did spoil perhaps that a HA rush is warranted here so I assume horses are nearby.

Definitely worker first. Then warrior>warrior settler>worker depending on what your surroudings/neighbors look like.

(By the way I meant to confirm that this is indeed a very good way to improve your game, i.e., playing a shadow game here with short turnsets)

 

[Fippy]

edit: or maybe not, cannot trust my eyes Still would move SE thou.
Also looks like more river tiles, good with Rags..

 

[Sataa3a]

Alrighty, thanks for the answer about the spoilers.
I'm going to go ahead and play about ten turns. I'll usually try to space out my turnsets by a day or so, but in this case, since all I did in the last one was settle, and there weren't really any pressing questions... might as well explore a bit.

I sent the scout north first, because the south seems to be tundra. Willem is my neighbor, probably somewhere northeast/east. We make contact on turn seven.

Spoiler :

Then, two turns later, Native America, also to the east.

Spoiler :

Agri>Mining>BW seems sensible enough, especially with all that forest. As for the HA rush... I've never used one of those. Wasn't really needed on Noble. d: But yeah, if there are indeed horsies, my neighbors seem to both be relatively close.

Thoughts on what I've explored so far:
Gold! But also a rather lot of desert. And just some less-than-stellar patches of land. My capital has enough food to share, though. I'll wait to dotmap until tomorrow, for once I get strategic resources revealed, but I rather like the thought of mining that gold sooner rather than later, because commerce and happiness are good things.

Also, when in the game should I post saves? One doesn't seem necessary right now, because there really isn't much to see beyond the screenshots, and I don't think the info screens are that helpful at the moment?

 

[Fippy]

Not familiar with monarch, but on high levels keeping your scout around that gold area now would be smart, so barbs don't pop there.
Settling 2N of corn would make for a good 2nd city, you don't get the cows but shared and already improved corn.

 

[lymond]

Not familiar with monarch

Well, one of these days you will graduate from Prince

As Fippy mentioned, grabbing gold while sharing a corn is a priority.

Overall, I see at least 3 to 4 decent cities to settle and this looks like a fairly strong start with a good cap. Plus, you have at least 2 extra happies. That's all you need to start stomping on the AIs.

The desert is irrelevant now. Get 3 to 4 good cities and then let the AIs donate their land to you.

Also, when in the game should I post saves?

Just post the current save with each report. There are actually some things that we can see now that you may not be aware of.

As for the HA rush... I've never used one of those. Wasn't really needed on Noble.

May not be needed, but it certainly is effective. You can basically run a Noble Pangaea in the BCs with HAs.

 

[OJimiJam]

1SW of the gold looks like a lovely early city. 4 Useful easily improved tiles without a border pop

 

[Tortfeasor]

I'd also consider the hill 1S of the sheep east of your capitol. Definitely not as a 2nd city, I doubt it will ever be too spectacular, but it gets you sheep and fur and it can borrow the corn to grow enough to help work some cottages.

 

[Sataa3a]

I added the save to the last report.

2N of corn/1SW of gold looks like a good site, yeah. I'll keep that in mind for when I get my first settler out.

On turn 13, Willem founds and converts to Buddhism. This means that there are almost certainly no religious fanatics on the map, I think. (Do civs that start with Mysticism always try to found one of the two earliest religions?)

Next turn Mining and the Worker finish, and I move to BW and a Warrior. Worker goes to farm corn 2E of Nidaros.

Scout is eaten by lion. (Grrr. I forgot to try to end his turn on a hill or forest.) This means that a) I still don't have the best picture of my surroundings, and b) I can't guard the gold as Fippy suggested. Do I need to do something to compensate for this?

Hinduism goes (not to Sitting Bull).
World at T20:

Spoiler :

My play style on Noble was pretty much to take out one civ with warriors and one more with axes, and then to sail through the rest of the game into space. Very different from my Warlords style of bumbling around with macemen in 1900 CE. (This forum has been very helpful.)

 

[Shearscape]

Actually, if you get out the Settler after growing to size 3, you don't really need to guard your desired city spot. Just move your Settler on the first turn it is complete to 1N of the top Corn, then on turn two move 1N and found a city with the second move. No opportunity for barb animals to attack you in between.