Monarch to Emperor w/Patch...help?

[douglas_21]

I can beat monarch with the warlords patch but I have emperor to be much, much tougher. How can I succeed at this higher level? So far, in my game as Tokugawa I have stolen a worker from mansa musa (was mining gold!) and chopped a settler...here's the save. Yes, I made a typo and typed Tofu instead of Toku.
Save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97855/Tofu2.CivWarlordsSave

I was distracted by the C: and drives so I made this avatar...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97855/av4.JPG

 

[Meatbuster]

Save's missing

 

[obsolete]

I noticed in this patch, that sometimes the AI just refuses to peace after you steal a worker in the BC era... and hence you hang yourself. Believe it or not, I was 1500 AD and the AI still wouldn't aggree to peace. Maybe it was a bug but interesting.

 

[cabert]

I noticed in this patch, that sometimes the AI just refuses to peace after you steal a worker in the BC era... and hence you hang yourself. Believe it or not, I was 1500 AD and the AI still wouldn't aggree to peace. Maybe it was a bug but interesting.

I believe you!
In my first "real" (meaning monarch level) prepatch warlords game, i decided to try stealing a worker because :
- it was miles away from home, so no enemy unit could come to my land in the next 20/30 turns
- I do it more often than not on vanilla, and wanted to see how it went on warlords.

I didn't destroy the worker, so genghis got it back when he killed my lonely warrior.
He never agreed to make peace.
He even declared war to the guy between us, just to get my head

 

[Twiglet]

Just getting back to Monarch level on 2.08 (can now win maybe one game in three, normal speed, random-everything - if I'm honest though I still rely on a good starting position to do it). I've given up worker stealing cos this has happened to me a number of times. I did wonder if it was a deliberate recoding but can't find any reference to it in the docs.

Something else I've noticed: the AI seems to notice when you're about to win and declares on you when otherwise (all being equal) it probably wouldn't (or at least pre-2.08 I wouldn't have been expecting it) - I've had this when 10 turns off a cultural win (which I still got) and about 12-13 turns off a space-race win (which I didn't - but actually was losing anyway as MM would have got there first).

 

[futurehermit]

i've never liked worker stealing, although i've done it with success at times. i find the diplomatic costs can outweigh the early advantage of the worker (which is significant, i will grant you that). and these horror stories only increase my resolve in this matter.

 

[douglas_21]

Mansa Musa signed peace- 1 of his 2 skirmishers followed the worker but his skirmisher attacked my 2 combat I warriors fortified in tokyo and lost...10-15 turns later he accepted peace. What should I do now that's different from Monarch?

 

[obsolete]

I wonder now if they deliberatly tried to prevent the worker-steal exploit, or if the new results are just due to other changes in the engines.

 

[cabert]

I wonder now if they deliberatly tried to prevent the worker-steal exploit, or if the new results are just due to other changes in the engines.

They changed the fact that workers could move on the turn where you captured them.
This is obvioulsy deliberate (and somewhat accurate : the same worker could move in the first player's turn, then again in the second player's turn, ..., not really realistic. In a cooperative MP, it was even abusable)

 

[douglas_21]

Well, America declared war on me, went to take a city and lost my chariots due to the RNG (one archer w/ hills and walls, but no promotions took out 3 chariots (3xp) without taking any damage. Now, I'm falling behind because Mali has a huge timbuktu with gold mines, and I'm surrounded by skirmisher-protected cities.

 

[Naismith]

i've never liked worker stealing, although i've done it with success at times. i find the diplomatic costs can outweigh the early advantage of the worker (which is significant, i will grant you that). and these horror stories only increase my resolve in this matter.

I don't really like worker stealing either - it seems like a cheap gimmick. Of course, that never stopped me from doing it occasionally.

Post patch, I've only tried it once. It seemed to work the same as usual with Qin as the victim. (Unfortunately, the worker was eaten by a bear on the trip back.) I think I killed one of Qin's warriors who was attempting to pillage.

 

[cabert]

I don't really like worker stealing either - it seems like a cheap gimmick. Of course, that never stopped me from doing it occasionally.

Post patch, I've only tried it once. It seemed to work the same as usual with Qin as the victim. (Unfortunately, the worker was eaten by a bear on the trip back.) I think I killed one of Qin's warriors who was attempting to pillage.

play at monarch+ : your worker stealing warrior faces archers

 

[Naismith]

play at monarch+ : your worker stealing warrior faces archers

Although I play Prince mostly, I have done the worker steal thing on Monarch, although I'm more cautious about it. Workers in forests, hills, etc are enticing, especially if there's a river involved.

As for the AI refusing to make peace after you steal a worker - I don't have very much experience with worker stealing in general, but I thought I read elsewhere in the forum that you needed to kill a unit in order to make the AI think it was "losing" the war, which would make it willing to make peace. If the AI thinks it's winning (it killed one of your units), or if it's even, then it may be very reluctant to make peace. I thought the solution (at Monarch+) was to tempt the AI to attack your warrior (with an archer) in very unfavorable circumstances (e.g. attacking a forrested hill across a river).

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

 

[cabert]

Although I play Prince mostly, I have done the worker steal thing on Monarch, although I'm more cautious about it. Workers in forests, hills, etc are enticing, especially if there's a river involved.

As for the AI refusing to make peace after you steal a worker - I don't have very much experience with worker stealing in general, but I thought I read elsewhere in the forum that you needed to kill a unit in order to make the AI think it was "losing" the war, which would make it willing to make peace. If the AI thinks it's winning (it killed one of your units), or if it's even, then it may be very reluctant to make peace. I thought the solution (at Monarch+) was to tempt the AI to attack your warrior (with an archer) in very unfavorable circumstances (e.g. attacking a forrested hill across a river).

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

no, you're completely right.
But read again what you wrote...
Don't you see how rare the favorable situation is, and how much luck is involved?

 

[Naismith]

Yeah, and you're right too. When I said worker stealing is a cheap gimmick, I was mostly being flippant. (They should have a "flippant" emoticon.) I apologize if I offended you.

Given my experience with Qin, I don't think the AI is less willing to make peace after a worker steal. Of course, Qin isn't one of the more aggressive leaders.

 

[douglas_21]

Ok, but after the early game I have trouble making a powerful, fast attack- I usually have too few attackers or take too long attacking and AI is too far ahead. How can I balance this?

 

[obsolete]

Something has sprung to mind, i can't remember now if you steal an indian worker, if he retains his 50% speed output.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

i can't remember now if you steal an indian worker, if he retains his 50% speed output

almost certain he doesn't

 

[Welnic]

If you steal an Indian worker, he drops back to a normal speed once he works for you. When you steal one as an Indian then they immediately realize their exalted status and speed right up.