Monarchist Cookbook Game IV, Mao Zedong of China!

[Winston Hughes]

Did you look at my save? I've got both iw and writing and i'll get that iron city up shortly . Anyways i think i'll vote for me

Not one for modesty, then?

Seriously, though, despite there being no hard-and-fast rule against voting for your own save, in the last game (and perhaps the one before) we did have a 'gentleman's agreement' not to vote for our own saves.

I think it makes even more sense with the new voting system, to stop anyone posting a ridiculouly weak save and giving it the one vote it needs to be a contender for the next round. (Not that that's what you're up to, obviously - your save is one of several that are too strong for the good of the game imo.)

On that note, my votes went to tycoonist, Rusten and oyzar. The bureaucracy capital plan is a sound one (yes, you have me convinced it's the best path - albeit not as fun as what I had planned), and in each case the execution thus far is very strong.

 

[r_rolo1]

@RichardMNixon

I can't talk by everyone else, but with so much jungle to chop, IW value skyrockets. AH is a relatively cheap tech compared with it, but in this scenario is far less useful. Anyway in Monarch you're reasonably safe with warriors in 1500 BC, so wildgoosechasing horses for protection ( especially with Alex down south ) doesn't seem apealing.

On the game, as I haven't received some votes, I'll extend the vote until 12 AM of Saturday, GMT + 1. then i'll anounce the results regardless of lacking votes

 

[tycoonist]

sorry for not voting, but with the format as it is, i don't have any particular desire to continue the game in this way. i might play on from my save as a shadow, but i won't be participating in this thread.

i honestly do think my save is the strongest, i also like pawelo, rusten and oyzar's.

 

[oyzar]

I am curious how you think your save is as strong as me or rustens, we are both way ahead of you in tehc(10+ turns) and ahead in generating great people... Also equal or better in production / city size(total) / workers /cities+settler

 

[Winston Hughes]

sorry for not voting, but with the format as it is, i don't have any particular desire to continue the game in this way.

What's your problem with the format? You know about my issues with it, but I don't remember you stating yours.

If you're going to love us and leave us, you might at least give us a brutally honest appraisal of our faults...

 

[gskyes]

I'm sorry, but I don't think I will have time to look at all the saves to vote in the first round, so I will defer to you guys to pick the top ones. I will try to vote in the second round once the field has been cut.

 

[tycoonist]

What's your problem with the format? You know about my issues with it, but I don't remember you stating yours.

If you're going to love us and leave us, you might at least give us a brutally honest appraisal of our faults...

choosing the best save is easy enough... but choosing a competitive save which isn't too good is impossible for me. i understand the feeling for a need of a challenge, but this isn't the way to solve it.

if you ask me, leaving monarchist cookbook games to people who actually play at that level is the best option. if you want to play in this way, perhaps a immortal/deity cookbook game could be started... but at the moment the voting for this just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[tycoonist]

@oyzar:

i wouldn't overestimate the tech advantage you have. yes, there is one but it is mainly in techs i don't need: hunting (and in rusten's case, archery). admittedly you are ahead in techs but unlike you i have finished mining the gems, so my economy will be back on track shortly. meanwhile, neither you or rusten have had a second border pop for the sugar city, so those gems won't be ready for a while. also, both of you have chosen to settle the two fish city before the iron city, and this has led to problems: firstly, in your case oyzar, you are left without anything better than warriors to defend your city, whereas i have the iron hooked up already, requiring only sailing or a road to connect it to the capital. secondly, leaving the iron city for so long meant that a barbarian city was able to form along the river between the capital and iron. this is going to make it much harder to connect the iron.

 

[Winston Hughes]

@tycoonist
Fair points. Thanks for explaining.

I'm not so pessimistic - although we might end up with another early play-out, there'll still be a lot of interesting stuff along the way. Besides, there's only a chance we'll end up playing from over-strong saves. The new system could have the desired effect.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Did you look at my save? I've got both iw and writing and i'll get that iron city up shortly . Anyways i think i'll vote for me for first as i have better production position and is producing GS not in my capital(so i can use that for production instead), rusten for second(as even though he is teching faster than me i like my production position better), also my barb city is only defended by warriors and it is in the right position saving me a settler. For 3rd it is rather close between tycoonist and rave but i'll go with tycoonist.

No, I didn't open any saves, I just read the reports. Which techs do you have exactly? If it was in your report I missed it.

 

[oyzar]

fishing/wheel/ag/hunting/myst/mining/bw/pottery/writing/iw and halfway AH

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, time to get the votes out......

Ofcial results ( in points ):

• tycoonist =15
• Rusten =12
• oyzar= 9
• Rave69= 9
• Pawelo = 5
• Bleys = 3
• Diamondeye =2
• r_rolo1 =2
  [*]Winston Hughes =1
  [*]TheMeInTeam =1
  [*]RichardMNixon =1

To take doubts, my votes were : Rusten 3 pts, tycoonist 2 pts , oyzar 1 pt

After looking at the saves with one point, I think that using Nixon game would be more in line of a a normal Monarch game ( no shunning intended ), so RichardMNixon save will be used. Please remove the spoiler of your game, Nixon

Next round will be open until Tuesday ( included ). Until that time comments on the game should be spoiled and no votes will be acepted.

 

[pawelo]

I think I must've missed something - we are continuing with the most challenging save ?

Now I understand tycoonist remarks better (my connection being bad this time around, I missed some discussion).
Anyway, I will continue and see how it works out - though I'm not overly enthusiastic regarding this principle.

I join the idea of Emp/Imm Cookbook, selecting the highest voted save to continue. Someone fancy starting such a thread ?

 

[tycoonist]

yeah i will do it if you want. if we can get enough support, i could start an immortal cookbook thingy.

 

[r_rolo1]

@pawelo

For this game , we'll introduce a new system of choice for the next turnset save. Instead of choosing the best ball game, every player that post a save and a report from that turnset will have the right to vote this way:

Best save ( in your opinion ) - 3 points

2nd best save ( in your opinion ) - 2 points

3nd best save ( in your opinion ) - 1 point

Votes should be sent to the current via pm. Save choosed will be the one with least votes of the ones that have votes at all ( this means that someone voted on it )

@ pawelo and tycoonist

I agree with both of you that the format in this edition is a little draconian, but it has to be like this. The last games ended being a cakewalk because of the choice of best save ( not because of higher level ppl playing, but that only helped ). If you get a Immortal game ( I'll be happy to to participate and help with that ), and you get a Immortal/deity group of players and choosing the best svae, you'll also get cakewalks ( in spite of Immortal cakewalks are diferent of Monarch cakewalks ), that is assured...... Think about it, you'll be sorting the best bits of a group of Immortal players game and combining them in only one game

 

[pawelo]

@r_rolo1

I think I got the point. Should be interesting anyway

@tycoonist

I'm hardly an Emperor guy, so Immortal might be a little bit harsh for me
Still, this should help me learning from the best

 

[Bleys]

choosing the best save is easy enough... but choosing a competitive save which isn't too good is impossible for me.

As a player, its not your role to choose a competitive save, you vote for the saves you think are the BEST. Its the Kings job to sift through the voting process and find the next save.

Once the save it chosen, you play from it, post, and once again, you vote for the 3 saves you think are the BEST. Votes are tallied, and the next round is chosen.

Is the problem that you dont wish to play from the save thats not the "best"?

I would also have a go in an Emp or Immortal type game with this format, where the very very best save is chosen, but so far, of 3 MCs, none have been even remotely challenging past the 2nd round, and that not right. Choosing less-strong saves every round will serve two purposes, one is to prolong the "challenge" of the game and two is to show more "how to fix less-than-optimal situations".

 

[Winston Hughes]

yeah i will do it if you want. if we can get enough support, i could start an immortal cookbook thingy.

I'd be up for an Immortal game, though I can't promise to join in every round.

Oh, and good luck to everyone in round two. I'll be back next week.

 

[Monsterzuma]

Building workers or settlers in small cities is very ineffecient. Better to grow bigger and have the already big cities produce the workers/settlers... A settler cost 150 hammers while a pop only cost 30-40 food(you can get 4-5 pop's for a settler, so most of the time it is best to get some pop first).

Hold on right there. This kind of reasoning ONLY applies when those extra pop you generate actually produce something useful. When all you can work is 1-suplus tiles like grassland forrests, those 4 extra pop generate only 4 hammers/food per turn, whereas a settler placed on a spot next to a 4 surplus tile like PIG produces 7 hammers/food a turn from the get go (rather, 4 turns inward given efficient worker allocation (gotta fence in the pigs...) and 4/turn before that). Add to this the fact that your new city may incorporate another big 3 or 4 surplus tile after growing once, and it is often far more efficient to choose a settler over growth. As a general rule, a good thing to try to work as many BIG tiles (3/4 surplus) as possible, and grow only in cities that can work at least a 2-surplus tile (hills, floodplains).

 

[oyzar]

He have writing but no escort for the settler, so for me the best course of action seems to settle the doubel fish city next while building a workboat in the capital(can be done in 3 turns). By borrowing the corn and the fish that city can get going quite fast... Build a worker afterwards to first hook up the corn(for shanghai) then help out the new cities.. Afterwards a settler, and by the time that is done the warrior from the south should be back to escort the settler to the iron site..

@ Monsterzuma yes obviously you don't really want to grow too early if you can't work anything better than a grassland forest.. But here you could mostly work mines / clams etc...