[NFP] Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode Discussion Thread

[InsidiousMage]

Setting aside the monopoly tourism modifier what are people's thoughts on Products?

Come too late in the game, take too long to build (they need to be like 2 turns or less), have too small of an effect, Corporations are too hard to get (and late game GM usually have better uses) and you are focusing on your win condition at the time when you would be making products.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I have’nt bought this mode yet

should I wait till they fix it?

 

[JJOne]

Most annoying thing - that you have no competition because the AI doesn't improve luxuries anymore - will hopefully be fixed.

 

[tedhebert]

Setting aside the monopoly tourism modifier what are people's thoughts on Products?

At the moment, it's hard to say because the gain is SO insignificant VS the tourism yields from monopoly it's not even funny. Once they fix monopolies, I think they'll be worthwhile. Yes they probably come in the game a little late,
but at the same time, the tourism game also comes in very late, at least the way I play my games (huge maps). Still, it's a lot of work... you have to build Stock Exchanges, then make the products. Anyways, I think it's fun... but
am wishing it'll become significant when they fix the monopolies bonuses

 

[UWHabs]

At the moment, it's hard to say because the gain is SO insignificant VS the tourism yields from monopoly it's not even funny. Once they fix monopolies, I think they'll be worthwhile. Yes they probably come in the game a little late,
but at the same time, the tourism game also comes in very late, at least the way I play my games (huge maps). Still, it's a lot of work... you have to build Stock Exchanges, then make the products. Anyways, I think it's fun... but
am wishing it'll become significant when they fix the monopolies bonuses

Yeah, haven't really explored much on them yet. I did notice that they do actually stack with the corporation itself, so it can be a little ridiculous getting +75% or more gold in a city due to a Truffles corp+product. So I wouldn't mind seeing them remove that. But otherwise, I do think they're a good idea for being able to spread the bonus around to other cities. I do like how they give you a little extra incentive to build those stock exchanges or seaports, and even at 500 production or so to build, can pay off fairly quickly still since they can give you some pretty solid yields. But expensive enough that you can't just spam them to get the bonus in every city.

 

[8housesofelixir]

But expensive enough that you can't just spam them to get the bonus in every city.

Also, IIRC, there is an limit on how many Products can be created per Corporation. I think it is 5 per Co. (could be wrong).

 

[greenOak]

At the very least, products can be used as substitutes for late game district projects. For example, in a science game, creating a turtle product is usually better than running campus research grants. 500 hammers into research grants gives 75 science. 500 hammers into a turtle project gives you +5 science and +15% science in that city. Assuming a very modest base 50 science, that's an extra 12.5 science per turn which means, the project will pay itself back in only 6 turns. The great scientist points aren't worth that much once Einstein is gone as I almost always win before the scientists granting boost to space race projects can be recruited.

 

[Chocolate Pi]

Products have to take into account some fraction of the cost of the Stock Exchange, which at 330 production (for a small amount of late-game gpt) is otherwise one of the most inefficient investments in the entire game. (Seaport has it much better, of course.)

Endgame Great Engineer/Scientist points are not a fair comparison to mundane yields--no other yield besides Tourism so directly triggers a win condition. In fact, one of the best way to give a back-of-the-envelope valuation of late game faith or gold is their GPP purchasing power.

 

[n_shai]

If products can be placed in a seaport, why can't a great admiral be used to create a corporation? Honestly there is pretty much no use for admirals, merchants are way more valuable.

To be fair there is not enough Great Merchants in the game and they cost too much in the late game.
I usually take over like half of the map on diety and then spread my culture, but i could not earn more then 6 merchants in a game considering i have like 40 cities by the turn 180.

 

[Kibikus]

After a couple of games with this mode, here are my thoughts:

1. I agree with everyone saying the tourism modifier should be tuned waaaaay down. Intentionally or not, it's too high right now.
2. Monopolies should give you something other than tourism (I don't think the little bit of gold you get is very impactful). Tourism in only needed for one victory condition and doesn't have any other uses (unlike Civ V and Ideologies for example). There are a lot of options here: it could give you, for example, diplomatic favor, especially if you have 100% of a resource. They could even add more gold, tied to era progression, diplomatic relations, etc.
3. As someone said above, products don't feel very impactful because they come too late and are very expensive. I would reduce their production cost and I would also add early game products. You would need an industry, you would be able to make 1 per city, and the market would get 1 slot for products. If it's too powerful, they could even halve the % modifier it gives.
4. Firaxis, please change the background for the product slots from a Relic to something else - maybe an open cardboard box or something. It's just confusing and the great works screen has gotten very cluttered as it is.

 

[n_shai]

1. I agree with everyone saying the tourism modifier should be tuned waaaaay down. Intentionally or not, it's too high right now.

I mean the tourism boost seems like way too much, but TBF it makes game less repetetive. Game condition is determined on like turn 100 so you're going to win a bit faster.
In order to have a huge monopoly boost you have to either conqour a few civs or settle 20+ cities based on luxuries.
However it seems like you're guaranteed to win. Boost should for sure stay the same for Ai though.
I wish it was harder to win this game and this update makes it easier. More fun, but easier.

 

[UWHabs]

If products can be placed in a seaport, why can't a great admiral be used to create a corporation? Honestly there is pretty much no use for admirals, merchants are way more valuable.

To be fair there is not enough Great Merchants in the game and they cost too much in the late game.
I usually take over like half of the map on diety and then spread my culture, but i could not earn more then 6 merchants in a game considering i have like 40 cities by the turn 180.

I mean, Admirals can't walk onto land, so they could never create a silk corporation. But I wouldn't terribly mind being able to use other great people for corporations. If Engineers or Scientists or Artists or any great person could be used to found a corporation too, that might balance things out more. Maybe in my universe, Newton gets hit on the head with an Olive instead of an Apple, and devotes his life to founding the Royal Select Olive United Corportation.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I mean, Admirals can't walk onto land, so they could never create a silk corporation.

You can have Corporations for ocean luxuries like turtles and Seaports can hold products so GA should be able to make Corporations.

 

[Weraptor]

After a couple of games with this mode, here are my thoughts:

1. I agree with everyone saying the tourism modifier should be tuned waaaaay down. Intentionally or not, it's too high right now.
2. Monopolies should give you something other than tourism (I don't think the little bit of gold you get is very impactful). Tourism in only needed for one victory condition and doesn't have any other uses (unlike Civ V and Ideologies for example). There are a lot of options here: it could give you, for example, diplomatic favor, especially if you have 100% of a resource. They could even add more gold, tied to era progression, diplomatic relations, etc.
3. As someone said above, products don't feel very impactful because they come too late and are very expensive. I would reduce their production cost and I would also add early game products. You would need an industry, you would be able to make 1 per city, and the market would get 1 slot for products. If it's too powerful, they could even halve the % modifier it gives.
4. Firaxis, please change the background for the product slots from a Relic to something else - maybe an open cardboard box or something. It's just confusing and the great works screen has gotten very cluttered as it is.

I don't know if this was already mentioned here, but I'd welcome if the Industry improvement gave some adjacency bonus to Industrial Zones. Like come on -- it's in the name.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I don't know if this was already mentioned here, but I'd welcome if the Industry improvement gave some adjacency bonus to Industrial Zones. Like come on -- it's in the name.

For that matter, the Ruhr Valley Wonder is really the Krupp Steel Corporation based in Essen originally: a Corporation disguised as a Wonder, so a lot more could be done relating Corporations, or at least their Headquarters and Bonuses, with On-Map Districts or Wonders.

 

[JJOne]

If products can be placed in a seaport, why can't a great admiral be used to create a corporation? Honestly there is pretty much no use for admirals, merchants are way more valuable.

I think the answer is the same as to "why can a spy steal in a commercial hub but not in a harbor?" - none.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

February 16 update announcements per the fb feed

 

[Pfeffersack]

I don't know if this was already mentioned here, but I'd welcome if the Industry improvement gave some adjacency bonus to Industrial Zones. Like come on -- it's in the name.

Nice idea, but an appeal penalty should be added, too (to avoid that replacing a mine/quarry with an industry helps you with nearby appeal)

 

[n_shai]

I mean, Admirals can't walk onto land, so they could never create a silk corporation. But I wouldn't terribly mind being able to use other great people for corporations. If Engineers or Scientists or Artists or any great person could be used to found a corporation too, that might balance things out more. Maybe in my universe, Newton gets hit on the head with an Olive instead of an Apple, and devotes his life to founding the Royal Select Olive United Corportation.

i really adore this idea
it gives more flexibility like when you're going for archeology museums and have no use of artists
or when your economy is based off of harbours so you lack great merchant points

Honestly harbours historically gave more impact towards economy so it would be nicer if we could use great admirals for ocean luxuries.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

i really adore this idea...

I mean, Admirals can't walk onto land, so they could never create a silk corporation. But I wouldn't terribly mind being able to use other great people for corporations. If Engineers or Scientists or Artists or any great person could be used to found a corporation too, that might balance things out more. Maybe in my universe, Newton gets hit on the head with an Olive instead of an Apple, and devotes his life to founding the Royal Select Olive United Corportation.

As do i.. but, why stop there. Fully agree on the premise that many other GP types could be well suited to stand as "Investors" or "Corporate Gurus".
It even adds a cool dimension to the recruiting cycle itself & how we w/c/should set our priorities for optimal usage based on more than just two usual basic elements by default.

Soooooo -- sell me a Bible.. my dear wasted but still listed Prophet(s).
And--so--on.. the thematic consequences are nearly endless.