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[NFP] Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. greenOak

    greenOak Warlord

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    Disagree with the bolded claim. In my fast tourism run, I was getting +580% from two monopolies. While technically not a bonus in the thousands, it is plenty enough to totally break the game. Anything giving over 100% tourism to every civ that early into the game is starting to get questionable imo.
     
  2. Deggial

    Deggial Emperor

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    @Kwami and @greenOak:

    The current values for one monopoly being too high is very possible!
    That’s why I deliberately wrote “all numbers just an example”.
    Maybe it is necessary to reduce tourism yields for the first two monopolies as well.

    But that was not really my point.
    My point is: the first two monopolies can and should be way more effective than every subsequent one.
    The concrete numbers are a matter of balance and others here have a way better idea of where to aim for than me.
     
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    That's a timing thing, the February update was likely finished coding by the time Corporations were announced and would have been in QA etc. Probably we will see something in April.
     
    8housesofelixir and Nerevatar like this.
  4. Ansive

    Ansive Prince

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    Not sure if that is defending their development practices or ridicules them.
    Three months to address a feature most players consider to be broken sounds like a really bad practice.

    I finally started a new game since that last patch, but I did not enable monopolies.
    I would lean towards 5% bonus tourism per each monopoly + 1% for each resource (which would not apply to civs that have access to that resource, even through trading). This way monopolies would provide something like 6-15% tourism modifier.

    Anyone know if the mode's parameters are in a DLL or XML file? (in case we want to nerf it locally)
     
  5. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Defending. "Most players" - I sincerely doubt this - most players are not fanatics like us! It's a combination of modes and it's taken nearly three months for the expert community to really exploit it so I think it's unfair to call it "broken", plus Firaxis needs to work out the best way to tweak it without creating new issues.
     
    Abaxial likes this.
  6. robal1991

    robal1991 Warlord

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    Boesthius did a 41 turn culture victory on deity with heroes and monopolies
     
  7. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Not to say that I don't want monopolies toned down, but I don't think anyone should be surprised when strange things happen when you start stacking modes (esp when you're doing it explicitly to leverage them like this).
     
  8. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

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    There were a few exposed GlobalParameters dealing with Monopolies after the December Update (nothing with tourism though), however for whatever reason they ended up hardcoding all of it when the actual update/mode went live in January. Leugi was able to find a few of the parameters in the dll, to create their Monopoly Resource Requirement mod.
     
    AriaLyric and Ansive like this.
  9. walkerjks

    walkerjks Prince

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    While true, it also points to other areas that might need toned down as well. Maybe heroic relics are giving too much tourism. I mean, you already get the benefit of the hero itself, why do you need something slightly better than a religious relic that for some reason is also modified by reliquaries, despite not being a religious artifact?

    Stacking modes is going to have a multiplier affect, but maybe several of the modes shouldn't each individually be so powerful. Monopoly tourism needs a big change, but SS (well, at least voidsingers) and heroes need some tweaks as well.
     
  10. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    That's pretty disingenuous. It didn't take us three months to exploit. It's only been available for one month and we pretty much figured out the problem in the first couple of days. It's most definitely broken.
     
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  11. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yeah I got my timing off - it's actually a month lol, it does take a combination of modes though unless anyone can show me a game with just Monopolies mode on and these crazy early wins?
     
  12. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Of cause it is a combination of modes and configurations, like many "crazy" things streamers do ;) But apart from that tourism bonus from monopolies is way too strong.
     
  13. Shadowstrike

    Shadowstrike Chieftain

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    A thought: even after the tourism multiplier is fixed, perhaps having the corporations mode on should also increase the tourism you need to apply to each other civ to get a tourist, to account for the fact that the mode gives you a tourism bonus (i.e. to make it so that cultural victory isn't just easier). Like there's a modifier about how much tourism to get each tourism (I think it's like 200 * number of civs?), perhaps that could be scaled up slightly if you have the corporation mode on?
     
  14. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I guess I thought of Corporations needing "fixed" more because it seems like more of a "normal" kind of mode for me. Of course the Heroes mode is unbalanced, it contains immortal legends, etc. Also, selfishly, I'm more interested in playing with Corporations more often than the others; so I am paying closer attention to what they do with it.
     
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  15. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    We can get rid of the Tourism bonus from this mode or keep it nerfed in a safe way.
    To make it even more fun and unique:
    1. Get rid of all current Tourism bonuses from Corporations, and monopolies.
    2. Every Civilization gets its own unique luxury. For example Egypt -> papyrus, Scotland -> whisky
    3. After unlocking Currency your builder can build a unique industry Egypt -> Papyrus manufacture Scotland - > whisky distillery
    4. Each unique Industry has specific terrain requirements to be built Papyrus manufacture must be built on floodplains, whisky distillery must be built on a marsh.
    5. You can build one Unique Industry for Civ, the second after unlocking Apprenticeship, and the third after unlocking Banking.
    6. After unlocking Corporations you can build Unique Corporation in one of your Unique Industry titles.
    7. Unique Corporation can produce Unique Products Egypt -> Papyrus Paper Scotland - > Whisky and those Unique Products if put in Stock Exchange or Shipyard give +30% Tourism in this city.

    Perhaps we could consider adding two Policy Cards
    1. Protected Geographical indication Products - all your Products earn +10 Tourism
    2. Global Market - all Products you monopolized earn +10 Tourism

    to make Economy an option way for Culture Win, not just a flat bonus. So one city with two monopolized Products on a Stock Exchange would grain max 30 Tourism or 20 Tourism and a +30% Tourism Bonus if it's Unique Product.
     
    sethjohnson likes this.
  16. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    Well, sure, the turn 50 wins require multiple modes and a lucky start. But even with only Monopolies enabled, the tourism modifier is going to reduce your win times by quite a bit. There have been a lot of folks complaining about accidental culture victories when they're trying for domination or something, too. Surely, a 500% modifier is not working as intended.
     
  17. Ansive

    Ansive Prince

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    What you're proposing in interesting enough but you (and other people proposing fixes) need to consider the changes from the developer's perspective.
    How much work would go into it. Is new art required? Are a lot of coding changes required? Would the mode need updates after each new civ?
    Such major overhauls are very unlikely to happen.

    Changing a few modifiers or rules, that's doable, re-doing most of the work, that's wasteful.
     
  18. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    I don't expect this kind of patch from devs, I just think it might be a cool idea and I wanted to share it :)
     
    Ansive likes this.
  19. Blutark

    Blutark Chieftain

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    I like the idea of the bonuses ramping up through the ages. A small increase in the early eras, make it a big jump into Industrial and decent increments in later eras. I would also limit the cap somehow. 75%-100% is more fitting imo.
     
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  20. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Even a simple "small monopoly bonus at industries, large monopoly bonus at corporations" would go a long way to balancing it. Like, a simple 5% * number of resources with an industry, and 10% * number of resources at corporations would probably give you like 20-30% bonuses early, and could get up to 100% or a little bit more once you have a corporation with 10 sources.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.

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