More info from an E3 demo

[Aussie_Lurker]

For trucks we can assume that they are going with the unit.
Cargo planes are implied by the fact that you can fly your troops from one airport to the other.

With ships it seems to be different:
You are changing the level of movement (from land to sea), yet you don't have to do anything for doing it.
The change from land to air transport (after all what we know) requires you to build an airport.

Therefore, free movement across the seas is fine if we are talking about port to port.
It is not fine when we are talking about any random sea-adjacent tile to any other sea-adjacant tile.
If we would accept this, then air transport from any land tile to any other land tile should be fine as well....

In the case of air transport, though, transport was *instantaneous*, wheras naval transports will still have to make the journey by the slow route, & it will cost them a turn to embark. As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Port Cities allow instant embarkation, wheras embarkation from any other point will cost an obligatory 1-turn (where you're vulnerable to attack from enemy land units). That hardly seems unfair to me!

Aussie.

 

[Ricci]

Therefore, free movement across the seas is fine if we are talking about port to port.
It is not fine when we are talking about any random sea-adjacent tile to any other sea-adjacant tile.
If we would accept this, then air transport from any land tile to any other land tile should be fine as well....

Exactly Commander, with air and rail transport we have to build airports, forts and railroads (additionaly needing coal or oil to do so). And most important, movement is limited by these constructions.
Gre Magnus put it as a barrier greatly shorten down; AljayBoy stated that you can make an entire off-shore invasion without building a single ship. If anything we can get out of this amphibious feature is immensely improved AI, it is at least a thumb up.

 

[Dunkah]

Has anyone seen a unit transporting yet?

What are the movement rates of one of these transports? Do they drop significantly? If your army is only moving one hex per turn over the water that will be a big deal as well.

Do we know that units will be able to travel on the oceans? Or will they be fixed to shallow water? I don't remember seeing any units in any of the videos that are in naval form. If you know of one can you direct me to it.

 

[Johnny Be]

Has anyone seen a unit transporting yet?

What are the movement rates of one of these transports? Do they drop significantly? If your army is only moving one hex per turn over the water that will be a big deal as well.

Do we know that units will be able to travel on the oceans? Or will they be fixed to shallow water? I don't remember seeing any units in any of the videos that are in naval form. If you know of one can you direct me to it.

I think it is safe to assume that your transports will only be restricted to coastal areas until the appropriate ocean-allowing tech.

I think Thrwyn might be right on this one... They will be limited to coastal tiles in the early ages.

And I suppose movement will be consistent with other Naval units of that time (less in the beginning and more latter - maybe by being a multiple of the unit base movement)

 

[mjs0]

Has anyone seen a unit transporting yet?

What are the movement rates of one of these transports? Do they drop significantly? If your army is only moving one hex per turn over the water that will be a big deal as well.

Do we know that units will be able to travel on the oceans? Or will they be fixed to shallow water? I don't remember seeing any units in any of the videos that are in naval form. If you know of one can you direct me to it.

Sorry, but you appear to misunderstand the point of this forum. You are supposed to make assumptions about the way Firaxis will implement features and then aggressively support of criticize them on the basis of those assumptions.
Raising valid questions and pointing out what we don't know is basically off topic.


Seriously, I agree...there is so much that we don't know about this feature that it is difficult to comment on its affect on gameplay.
I would also like to know a host of other things, including:

• when this ability becomes available?
• when oceans become navigable for transports (is it the same as regular navy) ?
• whether there are techs that improve the ability?
• Is it a full turn to transform or can you use the second of two movement points?
• How do amphibious assaults on a defended beach work (if transports have no offense)?
• How does combat with these transports work?
  • Since they are 'civilians' do they die automatically or do they have hit points?
  • If they are stacked does the protector take all damage, is there collateral?
  • Are there special rules for submarine attacks?
• Is there an additional maintenance fee for land units at sea?
• Are there any terrain restrictions on where embark/disembark can take place (e.g. beaches vs cliffs)?
• Is there attrition for land units at sea too long (esp. in pre-modern eras)?

...and oh so many more.

 

[Schuesseled]

For trucks we can assume that they are going with the unit.
Cargo planes are implied by the fact that you can fly your troops from one airport to the other.

With ships it seems to be different:
You are changing the level of movement (from land to sea), yet you don't have to do anything for doing it.
The change from land to air transport (after all what we know) requires you to build an airport.

Therefore, free movement across the seas is fine if we are talking about port to port.
It is not fine when we are talking about any random sea-adjacent tile to any other sea-adjacant tile.
If we would accept this, then air transport from any land tile to any other land tile should be fine as well....

you are of course assuming that unit in water mode will be faster than those in land mode. You have no basis for that assumption,

 

[GoodSarmatian]

My only problem with the Civ V way of transporting units across the see, is that it's free. I don't mind not having to build, the transport, but I hate how it's looks to be free to transport units across the see. I mean, there still has to be boats to transport the unit across the sea, but they just have to make it themselves. Make it cost money or oil or production or something.

We don't know if they are free. I don't think it will cost money to "create" transports, but CIv4 had unit supply cost if you had too much of your military outside of oyur territory. I suppose they'll slap some upkeep penalty o nunits currently beign transported.

 

[Ricci]

Sorry, but you appear to misunderstand the point of this forum. You are supposed to make assumptions about the way Firaxis will implement features and then aggressively support of criticize them on the basis of those assumptions.
Raising valid questions and pointing out what we don't know is basically off topic.

Haha!! It is rewarding that you instruct new posters into the doctrine of the thread. Though there are some things we do know for a fact which we criticize or support. Anyways, at this point you might want to change the title of the thread to: Transports, make your stand please!!

 

[Johnny Be]

If you don't mind, I'll use your list for my educated guess...

• when this ability becomes available? early-probably with first sailing tech
• when oceans become navigable for transports (is it the same as regular navy) ? yes
• whether there are techs that improve the ability? yes - and buildings/wonders also
• Is it a full turn to transform or can you use the second of two movement points? transform ends turn (like mounting artillery probably) so careful planning can be useful
• How do amphibious assaults on a defended beach work (if transports have no offense)? does amphibious assault exists? If it does then they attack as on land, other units can't disembark
• How does combat with these transports work?
  • Since they are 'civilians' do they die automatically or do they have hit points? Hitpoints but fragile
  • If they are stacked does the protector take all damage, is there collateral?
  • Are there special rules for submarine attacks?
• Is there an additional maintenance fee for land units at sea?
• Are there any terrain restrictions on where embark/disembark can take place (e.g. beaches vs cliffs)? no - but amphibious assault might be necessary to disembark over an existing unit
• Is there attrition for land units at sea too long (esp. in pre-modern eras)? no-they just cant sail other than coastal tiles

...and oh so many more.

I might be missing some information already known, I have only been following CiV reports for a few days.

 

[Schuesseled]

If you don't mind, I'll use your list for my educated guess...



I might be missing some information already known, I have only been following CiV reports for a few days.

actually setting up artillery only removes a single movement point. ranged attacks on the other hand use up all remaining points.

 

[Jaybe]

• Is there an additional maintenance fee for land units at sea?

I would like there to be a cost per turn for each unit traveling by sea. The vast majority of sea transport has made almost total use of MERCHANT shipping (including parts of WWII). Occasionally a transport fleet would be purpose-built for a major army movement.

Even today, the US Army leases several large (and fast) ships for contingency use.

-- on a separate note:
I've always been forced to consider that in Civ4 transport & carrier units contained integral escort ships. As do battleships, to enable their defeat of submarines.

 

[Jaybe]

actually setting up artillery only removes a single movement point. ranged attacks on the other hand use up all remaining points.

Ranged attacks should use up ALL movement points. That is, you should have to START your turn deployed, and DEPLOYING should use all remaining points (until artillery with GPS smart-round guidance becomes available).

Of course, I haven't Firaxis' perspective on the issue.

 

[Johnny Be]

• Is there an additional maintenance fee for land units at sea?

I would like there to be a cost per turn for each unit traveling by sea. The vast majority of sea transport has made almost total use of MERCHANT shipping (including parts of WWII). Occasionally a transport fleet would be purpose-built for a major army movement.

Even today, the US Army leases several large (and fast) ships for contingency use.

This is the reason I consider the new system good.

The old "transports" pictures ware actually of landing crafts! There isn't a standardized way of moving troops from one place to another (per example, do US troops go to the middle east by ship or by plane?) Raging wars across the globe with massive armies is a very recent trend, in previous eras troops where carried in the warships as crew, or "requested" civilian ships for a campaign and most wars were with neighbors (close)

Just like supply lines with refueling, ammunitions, maintenance of land vehicles, etc... is abstracted, I see this change as an abstraction of gathering a few civilian ships to transport troops between landmasses.

 

[Schuesseled]

Ranged attacks should use up ALL movement points. That is, you should have to START your turn deployed, and DEPLOYING should use all remaining points (until artillery with GPS smart-round guidance becomes available).

Of course, I haven't Firaxis' perspective on the issue.

SOME people MIGHT even agree with you, but THAT is NOT the way it is...

 

[AriochIV]

I was confused by this when I saw the video... that setting up a siege weapon to shoot only takes 1 point, and most units have 2. I guess the intent is just that you can't move it and shoot in the same turn.

 

[Ahriman]

ranged attacks on the other hand use up all remaining points.

Are we sure this is true? So, no possibility for shoot-and-scoot skirmishing?

actually setting up artillery only removes a single movement point.

Yeah, I think this is kinda lame. When I heard deployment, I thought that would be cool. When I heard that it just took up a movement points, so you could still move and deploy or deploy and shoot in the same turn, much less interesting.

Unless it takes a movement point to undeploy also?

 

[AriochIV]

I think it does take a movement point to undeploy, also.

 

[Schuesseled]

Are we sure this is true? So, no possibility for shoot-and-scoot skirmishing?

Not 100% sure with land units, but I have never seen one move after shooting.

But I am certain this is true with naval units, the two fights with the frigates and the one with the destroyers, they all had full movement points, and the movement points dissapeared after the attack order was given.

Unless it takes a movement point to undeploy also?

I've seen nothing to suggest this, but it is a possibility.

 

[Sciguy001]

It would only make sense that it would also take a movement point to undeploy, i mean you can't move a seige weaponry that's already been deployed and if so than why would you have to redeploy it after moving?