Most annoying "features" in A New Dawn

[Darken24]

Could you elaborate on what areas need better documentation? I created an entire new section in the Civilopedia for AND, and have some features documented, but it's not up to date for AND 1.60.

how about putting a thing on each civic showing which building goes with it i'm pretty sure i saw you did that for the two new sets that you put in but could you add them for the others please

 

[ihmcguinness]

i do agree that more completeness in the civopedia would be welcome. this mod is incredible, but with so much new content, it would be nice to have everything documented. some units don't have descriptions, and some game mechanics aren't really explained.

overall, though, this is incredible.

oh, and streamlining the game would be welcome. i'm running an intel quad and 8gb of memory, but i still wait 15-20 seconds between turns once a map is fully covered with cities.

 

[Arakhor]

You are joking, aren't you? Afforess has already made AND much faster than RoM alone.

Quad-core computers make no difference to Civ IV, as the game does not have multi-threading. It's processor speed and RAM that make all the difference.

 

[os79]

i do agree that more completeness in the civopedia would be welcome. this mod is incredible, but with so much new content, it would be nice to have everything documented. some units don't have descriptions, and some game mechanics aren't really explained.

overall, though, this is incredible.

oh, and streamlining the game would be welcome. i'm running an intel quad and 8gb of memory, but i still wait 15-20 seconds between turns once a map is fully covered with cities.

15-20? That is fast for the scenario you were describing superficially . So accept that 15-20 seconds is a supreme speed and move on, imo .

 

[Afforess]

I've tried to add more documentation. Civics show the buildings they unlock now. I added a lengthy Civilopedia article for Dark Ages.

How is the beta9 AI doing? Better?

Let me run down some key features I tried to help the AI with:

• Gold Management. They should know when to save and when not to save gold
• Defending Rebellious Cities. As cities get closer and closer to revolting, the AI will stack more defenders in them. I am seeing the AI do much better at handling Revolutions because of this.
• Settling on Rivers. I boosted the value for river sites.
• Religous Techs - The AI should notice them more and go after them.
• Wonders. The AI now build wonders much more frequently. I usually lose the race to Stonehenge now, unless I get ahold of stone really early.
• Early AI city management. They focus on making early cities as productive and as large as possible.

Have I done enough? Of couse not. But do you guys think the AI is doing better in my latest Betas?

 

[ihmcguinness]

yeah, i should say that AND (and RoM) is amazing. thank you again and again for making it! i wanna check out beta9.

as for speed, i guess that's just normal. i should note, though, that i chose 'no storms', but i still get them... i've heard they really slow things down.

 

[ihmcguinness]

p.s. do i need to uninstall the normal AND install in order to install beta9?

 

[Arakhor]

Of course. Install these betas on an entirely fresh RoM 2.81 mod.

 

[ihmcguinness]

and all that requires is the deletion of the RoM folder in the mods folder? sorry for my ignorance, just double checking.

 

[Afforess]

Standard procedure for a new installation is to keep a copy of RoM 2.81 backed up somewhere. Then, delete your RoM folder, copy the RoM 2.81 folder in, then run the installer.

 

[kaltruhe]

-River Authority
+1 Happiness
+15% Maintenance
River Tiles: +1 Production, +1 Commerce
Req: Courthouse
Tech: Currency

I have always thought that River Authority is extremely powerful. The first time i built it, I even thought it's a national wonder!

I suggest deleting + 1 production bonus that already exist as levee's bonus.

 

[Green Flag]

Hello guys !

As this message is my first one, i have to says a few things :

1° ) The job made by all the coders here is unbeleavable, i don't stop playing.
Nothing compare with (BTS + ROM + AND). So you are the

2°) Please, Afforess, don't stop addind new features and buildings, even there is
a lot of hapyness or healthyness bonus that you can cumulate.

This is not a valid reason because:

a- Not all the players are Strategic masters.
(if you whant more difficulty, just play hight level)
b- if you don't like some buildings.
(don't install them, AND allows that perfectly)
c- If one of yours cities don't work correctly, You can find a building able
to help her in several points simultaneously low.

 

[phungus420]

I've got to a point where I'm considering returning back to Vanilla BtS, I just can't get further than 0AD because the AI is so slow in teching and building it's empire

No need to go back to Vanilla BtS, you would probably enjoy Legends of Revolution just fine. Now LoR is no RoM, or AND, Afforess and Zappara have added at least 5 times the content to their projects as I have to mine; we have very different approaches to modding. Basically I'm more discriminating about adding content. Anyway if you like Revolutions and some of the other features in RoM, but are frustrated by the AI to the point where you would give up content for improved performance, LoR probably is what you're looking for.

I don't mean to be advertising in your mod forums either Afforess, I just check up on what you're working on here quite a bit as some of your work is perfect to put into the RevDCM core. And I saw that post and felt the need to respond, also I have pointed users of LoR toward RoM when they ask me for more stuff and I think they'd enjoy it, and I think that user (and people that agree with his sentiment) would like what LoR has to offer.

 

[darkedone02]

one thing that annoys me is that I do not start off with an idle build at the start of the game, so I have to cheat research to get either the wealth build (currency) or the research build (alphabet), I don't bother using the Culture build because for some reason on every civ game, after the city successfully level up the culture borders, the city ask me to build something else, it won't stay on forever like the research and wealth build does.

One other things is sometimes my stupid workers like to build forts on special resources, which does not make any sence, and I see forts in all games pretty useless, the only forts that I use are the one in my city, my city is the best fortress that does not bothers me . I wish sometimes my workers are a bit more intelligent sometimes.

the always fortify feature that you can turn on and off at the options need a bit more work, what annoys me is that when I upgrade my unit to a new unit, since my other is obsulete, after i ended the turn, they all ask me to what to do... what i want them to do is just fortify again, but I have to do that everytime I upgrade a new unit. I also wish that my always fortify units does not affect my settlers too... cause sometimes the blue circles will not appear till the next turn after it been built.

An odd thing that usually annoy me is that sometimes when i decided to place my great commander/general into a unit, every unit except workers stops fortifying and ask me what to do with them :/, again I have to fortify all of them.

The one that always annoys me the most is the lag, I started getting heavy lag every time I go to the city menu on a brand new city I built, and I get the horrible lag when I started selecting alot, and cheat building them. Not as annoying when I cheat promote my units and get a huge lag spike that I accidentally click explore and wasted my unit movement speed. However this lag when I select a build decreases when the building list to build get's shorter and shorter. I think it;s the graphics that might cause the lag, or that there too many visible at the moment that causes me to suffer this lag?

 

[Afforess]

One other things is sometimes my stupid workers like to build forts on special resources, which does not make any sence, and I see forts in all games pretty useless, the only forts that I use are the one in my city, my city is the best fortress that does not bothers me . I wish sometimes my workers are a bit more intelligent sometimes.

the always fortify feature that you can turn on and off at the options need a bit more work, what annoys me is that when I upgrade my unit to a new unit, since my other is obsulete, after i ended the turn, they all ask me to what to do... what i want them to do is just fortify again, but I have to do that everytime I upgrade a new unit. I also wish that my always fortify units does not affect my settlers too... cause sometimes the blue circles will not appear till the next turn after it been built.

Workers build forts over resources because forts still give access to all resources, and give a defense bonus. The only build forts when the city can't work the tile, so it's always smarter to build forts then.

The one that always annoys me the most is the lag, I started getting heavy lag every time I go to the city menu on a brand new city I built, and I get the horrible lag when I started selecting alot, and cheat building them. Not as annoying when I cheat promote my units and get a huge lag spike that I accidentally click explore and wasted my unit movement speed. However this lag when I select a build decreases when the building list to build get's shorter and shorter. I think it;s the graphics that might cause the lag, or that there too many visible at the moment that causes me to suffer this lag?

I hate it too. I'm trying to make the UI quicker, but the UI isn't very fast in BTS either...

 

[darkedone02]

Workers build forts over resources because forts still give access to all resources, and give a defense bonus. The only build forts when the city can't work the tile, so it's always smarter to build forts then.



I hate it too. I'm trying to make the UI quicker, but the UI isn't very fast in BTS either...

did you try making something like a minimal UI? or try to make a limit on visible buildings that allows you to see 10 or more buildings at a time (some people might not like it, but it might help reducing the lag)?

 

[szemek77]

1.) Oh, I agree with you 100%. However, don't make the mistake of coming to the wrong conclusion. The solution isn't to remove features, but to teach the AI to use the new tools it has better.

You probably know that you've just signed up for sisyphean job, don't you? I can only admire your devotion and skill on doing that, because I can see some improvements in that area. What worries me the most is that I'm not sure if you would be able to keep up with all the new changes coming. The same time you try to "upgrade AI brain", there is a flow of new features. I'm not sure if you can win that race.....

2.) I've tempered this quite a bit in the early game with Better RoM, but the late game is still really easy, I agree.

Any plans in that area?

3.) The reason this happens is this: The AI is considering war. His worst enemy, right next to him, is in the 10 turn window of peace that they just declared. So he can't target him. So he picks the next best target, you. However, his war preparations take longer than 10 turns, and the peace expires between his enemy and him. However, the AI doesn't switch warplans and target the old rival, and stupidly heads off against you. Sound familiar? Better AI .83 solved this, which will be in Beta5.

Yes, I understand the reason. AI is making tons of other stupid mistakes. Lately I saw that AI was keeping 10 (!) artists in his capital (as specialist). Why the hell AI did that, keeping in mind that it was behind in science, and the cultural victory was not chosen by me as a victory condition, I shall never know.

But of course there are some areas in which AI is pretty good. Lately I played a game in which the existing world has been divided between two empires (me and Nebuchadnezzar) with 4 vassals each and Abissinians trying to survive independent. I must admit that AI perfectly chose the time to start a war with me and my allies. It happened that I forgot about the raising taxes penalty, and changed them dramatically. I got 10 turns of anarchy. Guess what: Babylonians invaded my vassals just two turns after this s%^& happened to me I must also admit that Nebuchadnezzar tried to conduct this war (which lasted over 200 years) very reasonable - created couple of stacks which were sent in various directions, tried to get left behind for healing wounded units, defended key strategic cities etc. What killed him ultimately? Lack of technology. I had T-72, marines, infantry, modern grenadiers while he still fought with riflemen and cavalry (rifled)

Some things you forget to complain about:

Wonders. The AI has been completely failing to build any significant number of wonders. This was due to a type in the calculations with Better AI, which basically reduced the chances to 0. Now that I caught that and corrected it, the AI are again building wonders.

I can confirm that. 50 wonders built, 6 of them went to 10 civs, and other 44 were built by me And this in fact is one of the key reasons why AI stays behind in development. Some of the wonders can give you excellent boost in selected areas!

It would be fair to say that I haven't played any version higher that 1.60 beta 4. So, I understand that some of my opinions and remarks can be out of date. I will report soon from beta10. As I heard, this is the version which would be the most recent for next month or two, is that correct?

 

[Afforess]

You probably know that you've just signed up for sisyphean job, don't you? I can only admire your devotion and skill on doing that, because I can see some improvements in that area. What worries me the most is that I'm not sure if you would be able to keep up with all the new changes coming. The same time you try to "upgrade AI brain", there is a flow of new features. I'm not sure if you can win that race.....

Yes, but most new features have stopped being new content, and started becoming new ideas. This subtle shift means more game options, not a lot more buildings/units.

2.) I've tempered this quite a bit in the early game with Better RoM, but the late game is still really easy, I agree.

Any plans in that area?

Yeah, but I am going to roll back all Better RoM changes for 2.9, since all the unit changes got adopted by Zappara, and he seems to have balanced a bunch of the civics. I'm not sure about many of the buildings, but I need to play a few games with 2.9 alone before I can figure out what needs to balanced.

Yes, I understand the reason. AI is making tons of other stupid mistakes. Lately I saw that AI was keeping 10 (!) artists in his capital (as specialist). Why the hell AI did that, keeping in mind that it was behind in science, and the cultural victory was not chosen by me as a victory condition, I shall never know.

Really? That is beyond strange...

But of course there are some areas in which AI is pretty good. Lately I played a game in which the existing world has been divided between two empires (me and Nebuchadnezzar) with 4 vassals each and Abissinians trying to survive independent. I must admit that AI perfectly chose the time to start a war with me and my allies. It happened that I forgot about the raising taxes penalty, and changed them dramatically. I got 10 turns of anarchy. Guess what: Babylonians invaded my vassals just two turns after this s%^& happened to me I must also admit that Nebuchadnezzar tried to conduct this war (which lasted over 200 years) very reasonable - created couple of stacks which were sent in various directions, tried to get left behind for healing wounded units, defended key strategic cities etc. What killed him ultimately? Lack of technology. I had T-72, marines, infantry, modern grenadiers while he still fought with riflemen and cavalry (rifled)

You can thanks Jdog for that. His main improvements with the AI has been their handling of warmachines.

I can confirm that. 50 wonders built, 6 of them went to 10 civs, and other 44 were built by me And this in fact is one of the key reasons why AI stays behind in development. Some of the wonders can give you excellent boost in selected areas!

Completely fixed. The AI build lots more wonders now.

It would be fair to say that I haven't played any version higher that 1.60 beta 4. So, I understand that some of my opinions and remarks can be out of date. I will report soon from beta10. As I heard, this is the version which would be the most recent for next month or two, is that correct?

Any beta's above beta6 should have most of my AI improvements in it. Beta10 has some bugs, but nothing game breaking. Part of the reason I've let Beta10 sit for so long is that players start catching deeper bugs, shallow bugs are easy to find, but deeper ones are the ones most players miss the first time around.

 

[szemek77]

Yes, but most new features have stopped being new content, and started becoming new ideas. This subtle shift means more game options, not a lot more buildings/units.

I appreciate that direction of changes. However, does it affect what I said in the first place? Is it really easier to teach AI how to use new concepts, than new bulidings?

Yeah, but I am going to roll back all Better RoM changes for 2.9, since all the unit changes got adopted by Zappara, and he seems to have balanced a bunch of the civics. I'm not sure about many of the buildings, but I need to play a few games with 2.9 alone before I can figure out what needs to balanced.

Totally agree. Is the 2.9 coming out by the end of February? Is it a tough job to adjust AND to new version of RoM? I'm also curious how the release of CIV 5 would affect your modding of CIV 4. And I also wonder, if the Firaxis would follow any of the ideas/features/game optimization of RoM/AND....

Completely fixed. The AI build lots more wonders now.

Good to hear that. It is no fun at all to grab all the wonders.

Any beta's above beta6 should have most of my AI improvements in it. Beta10 has some bugs, but nothing game breaking. Part of the reason I've let Beta10 sit for so long is that players start catching deeper bugs, shallow bugs are easy to find, but deeper ones are the ones most players miss the first time around.

Good decision. Players like me, who don't have so much time for playing as others do, hardly can keep up the pace I started a game on beta4, won, and you already have beta10..... My remarks are not very helpful that way


EDIT: I already know the answer on Afforess/modding/AND/CIV5 issue since I read the "Stop the pressing" thread.

 

[RobO]

The most annoying feature of AND?

The insane number of buildings you can build in a city. I find many of them are redundant, severely unbalanced or duplicates of each other. But that's my opinion.

Fortunately, you can choose what (not) to install, so it isn't really a problem. I almost exclusively go for the stuff that doesn't add buildings. RoM is basically large enough as it is.