[GS] Most OP Civ for GS

[pgm123]

I don't think we invaded during the winter. Though I would have to check the dates, I don't remember. We lost because we were cocky and thought we could just roll over them.

General Montgomery and Benedict Arnold began the assault on Quebec City on December 31.

 

[steveg700]

What a fun read, what with all the various individual spins. I thought Moari would get thrashed for its unchoppability.

Keep it up, folks.

 

[The googles do nothing]

I don't think we invaded during the winter.

I didn't know they had other seasons in Canada. That's why there politicians are so honest. It's so cold they have to keep their hands in their own pockets.

On topic, it would be surprising that there isn't a OP civ in GS. I think Firaxis does that because it presumably increases sales.

 

[Disgustipated]

1775 Invaded in Autumn, got to Quebec in December. Attacked it during a snowstorm.

need to brush up on my revolutionary war history. Looking at it, seems we lost because they were ready for us, and we really had no chance even if the weather was good.

 

[Victoria]

I really need to start levying more myself and I know it.

I've used it with Gilgamesh a few times

Just now playing random deity and got Monty. Went to attack Quinn and he had a lot of troops, banged Amani in Vilnius and for 150 gold I got 3 warriors. Why have we not been using this more?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Incan mountains are going to be Hansas-equivalents but come much earlier.

A mountain with 3 terrace farms around it is 3 food 8 production. It's something you can get early on, too, potentially before Craftsmen.

It's INSANE. INSANE!!!!!!

 

[PhilBowles]

Incan mountains are going to be Hansas-equivalents but come much earlier.

A mountain with 3 terrace farms around it is 3 food 8 production. It's something you can get early on, too, potentially before Craftsmen.

It's INSANE. INSANE!!!!!!

I feel people are overestimating how easy it will be to find good city spots for the Inca. A mountain starting bias guarantees them a single good city - which is a great early boost, to be sure, but they'll be a lot weaker than they look if they can't consistently find multiple areas to settle with good arrangements of mountains. I noticed in the Ottoman playthrough that the Inca were in a mostly flat area.

 

[Xandinho]

Well, when Mali was revealed, some people said it would be the weakest civ of GS, and now it's leading as the strongest. What made people change their minds?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Well, really, all you need is a single good city.

Also, have you looked at their UU?

 

[Sagax]

Incan mountains are going to be Hansas-equivalents but come much earlier.

A mountain with 3 terrace farms around it is 3 food 8 production. It's something you can get early on, too, potentially before Craftsmen.

It's INSANE. INSANE!!!!!!

As already established in your other thread - no, they do not get 8 production mountains. You misread.

The actual production output of mountains can be seen in the first look and the recent playthrough uploads.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Fine, but terrace farms are 6 yield tiles (if next to 2 mountains) AND provide housing and you can easily get 2 of them before Craftsmen.

Also, their UU. OMG their UU. All you need is Machinery and the game is over.

Skip Campus. Build scouts (level them up hitting barbs or smacking city states). Use the 100% scout experience card. Get Encampment and rush Terra Cotta wonder and win!

If you can get 3-5 scouts to level 2 by the time you complete Terra Cotta warrior, you've got an unstoppable army. Even if you don't get there, those double shot slingers can quickly level up by attacking cities as they will get double experience FOR EACH SHOT.

 

[Ziad]

I don't think anyone is saying the Inca are bad. Far from it.

Perhaps we shouldn't compare civilizations in a 1:1 way though? Just because a civilization can produce massive tile yields doesn't mean it can make use of it to actually win.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Yes, but the Incan can make use of it to win with their UU.

 

[NukeAJS]

I voted Mali but with a caveat.

Mali seems like it'll take a lot of TLC to make work well. It's not like some of the other top tier civs where you have one gimic and exploit it to Earth's end. In other words, Mali has a lot of moving parts and it seems like it's a question of how soon you can get all of them to move together.

 

[Ziad]

I voted Mali but with a caveat.

Mali seems like it'll take a lot of TLC to make work well. It's not like some of the other top tier civs where you have one gimic and exploit it to Earth's end. In other words, Mali has a lot of moving parts and it seems like it's a question of how soon you can get all of them to move together.

You just described all the GS civs

 

[UWHabs]

Just now playing random deity and got Monty. Went to attack Quinn and he had a lot of troops, banged Amani in Vilnius and for 150 gold I got 3 warriors. Why have we not been using this more?

Yeah, it's actually pretty insane. Had a game recently where for just a few hundred, I added like 4-5 warriors. Spend like 80 each and now I have 4-5 swords (I was Kongo so they upgraded to my unique units too). That many units all at once really can rip through an AI civ. So it takes you like 15-20 turns and now you've doubled your land, and you can just throw them to explore around, knowing that you don't give a damn if they die or get stranded. Plus, when you attack with them, you don't care about killing them off either, so you can attack with them when they're lower strength. They can even be used to draw opposing fire, too, again safe in the fact that they're 100% disposable.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Canada should get Russia bonus towards Snowstorms. Russia has more casualties then the French and Germans. America twice invaded Canada and was beaten both times. Nobody remember - present company excepted - because we realized how foolish it was.

I don't think we invaded during the winter. Though I would have to check the dates, I don't remember. We lost because we were cocky and thought we could just roll over them.

No winter invasions during the War of 1812. You had enough trouble as it was trying to convince your militia that their terms of service required them to cross the border.

1775 Invaded in Autumn, got to Quebec in December. Attacked it during a snowstorm.

That worked out about as well as one would expect.

I didn't know they had other seasons in Canada.

We keep that weekend a closely guarded secret.

On topic, it would be surprising that there isn't a OP civ in GS. I think Firaxis does that because it presumably increases sales.

That's probably a bigger factor for DLC sales. In any event, I'm personally pleased with their self-restraint in the design of the GS civs. It's a lot easier to make "better" than "different".​

 

[NegativeZero]

The Incas get some rather nice toys, but they are rather map dependent. They're also not the Cree in that their scouts will be weak until machinery. It'll be quick recon production just before machinery finishes for the UU.

That being said, I'll be playing Incas first then Mali.

I'm excited for Mali's innate desert growth without the need for food tiles. I'm not sure if players would want to conquer Mali's cities too early as they'd just "dry up" into typical desert cities. I'd much rather have a trade target and potential ally from the wastes.

Edit: Mali isn't likely to get walls quickly as they can't be bought, so players would have plenty of time anyways.

 

[Sostratus]

Massive production boots. Awesome farms, Every bonus useful. Economic bonuses kick in from the very beginning. Devastating UU.

Their start bias will guarantee plenty of mountains and hills, which is arguably the best start (mountains provide science, hills provide production and food for the incans, and mountains protect you).

I think it's already been covered that the mountains appear to be stuck at 2 prod. Which is sad; inca have 3 food boosting abilities, i think for the sake of yield balance they should have swapped one to production. (IMO the mountain adjacent to farms one.)
Let's also not forget that Machu Pichu was made for the inca, and if they get it then they get godlike districts on all those flat tiles next to mountains.

The best way to leverage the lnca is to spam cities in the mountains as tight as possible (and elsewhere with rivers) to maximize the number of aqueducts, and thus the number of times you get +2 production to terrace farms. (Technically you could roll a +4 if you have city-AQ-terrace-AQ-city.) The mountain/terrace interactions don't care what city has what tiles. Even if you only 2 or 3 per city, AQ+terrace farm is going to be a rampage.

The Warak is certainly going to be fun, but they still suffer form the vulnerability all ranged units have - the horse units can bulldoze through them. Warak are medieval, they dont come earlier. That same tech tier has knights and coursers, both of which can easily plow through your puny 20 defensive strength. Once they get Ambush, yes, they will be great- and I'm super excited to play them- but you can have 100 attacks a turn- doesn't matter if a coursers can basically one shot them.

In multiplayer we will have to see how tactically handy the qapac tunnels are. I can imagine being able to teleport down snaky mountain ranges will be pretty killer.

Maori - Uncertain. Balance completely depends on whether the devs will give you an "obvious" location to settle

I can see some variability around getting completely shafted in a tundra locked ocean or something. But I think they have 3 abilities that all tie so well together:
-More food from fishing boats/more production from woods/jungle
-The Marae is OP AF
-Toa are slated to be blistering ridiculous

You get free primary (food/prod) for either doing what you were going to do (fishing boat) or do nothing (woods/jungle.) You don't have to use more builder charges, you just get it. That's hammers saved for districts/Toa/whaetver.
+2 culture and faith on woods, reefs, etc, is absolutely bonkers. +5 yield on woods? aka 8 yield tiles at drama & poetry?! And you can still chop woods out if you want, there's no downside here.
The toa is also, imo, too good. a varu on the melee line (not vulnerable to pikes, and get oligarchy boosts) that can build a better fort than a legion can. I have strong doubts about the dev's ability to make this cost appropriate amounts. Legions are 110 and varu are 120 iirc. So you can have, once you get the 1st GP building up, a 48 strength toa with debuff aura that can build forts. That's fighting muskets at a -2 disadvantage for half the cost. We don't even know if toa need iron.

It's less about the first 10 turns settling and more about the next 300 turns of crazy bonuses.

 

[MarigoldRan]

But knights have gotten more expensive and the AI is dumb.

If you're rushing Terra Cotta warrior, you're going to get a GG by the medieval era and at 25 strength they don't get one shotted anymore.

The major problem with wars is city defenses and the Incan UU can eat through them like a fist through water. Besides, by the point you're attacking with their UU, the AI will have engineering and thus catapults and so you won't face many knights because the AI will be massing catapults instead.